"Right to Refuse Service" but not to Gays?

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Nope. Sexual preferences. Same thing. Unless of course, you only engage in sex when you want to procreate. : )

Not when you are talking about procreation. Unless there are some kind of special talented gays that can all of a sudden procreate when they have sex....

originally posted by: lonweld

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein

originally posted by: lonweld Or does this "right" only extend to certain businesses?

How is serving food an "emergency" situation? You are comparing apples to pluto

They are both businesses. If we are to be fair with everyone, we can't have seperate rules can we?

You are comparing a privately owned restaurant to an emergency room....You don't see anything wrong with your separate rules scenario there?

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc
Does it say anything about human society that we are still debating our rights to discriminate against others based on the fact that we dont like/accept who they are?

Anyone who is retarded enough to refuse service based on your skin colour, sexual orientation and gender shouldn't own a business in the first place, you're clearly in it for the wrong reasons.

That is NOT the point! It doesn't matter the reason....My point is if you own it, who is anyone to tell you who you can't serve? The right or wrong reasons excluded...

The reason is simply this:
No Blacks.
No Dogs.
No Irish.

There are to many stupid and bigoted people in the world, the majority cannot trust the few A**hole business owner's to conduct themselves in a respectful and and meaningful manner.

We've had societies where business have been able to refuse service for whatever reason. It didnt work out. That's why laws were passed.

Did you know that after Muhammed Ali won the olympic gold he was given key to his city and STILL refused service at a restaurant because he was black???

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc
Does it say anything about human society that we are still debating our rights to discriminate against others based on the fact that we dont like/accept who they are?

Anyone who is retarded enough to refuse service based on your skin colour, sexual orientation and gender shouldn't own a business in the first place, you're clearly in it for the wrong reasons.

I agree. I'm in business to make money and money from gay spends just as well from straight customers. However, who are we to dictate who or why is in business for what reason? Do we want free thought and free association or do we not?

We've suffered open discrimination of people by businesses in the past. As much as i think its a great idea that business owner's should have as much control as possible over their business you simply cannot trust the few who will abuse that "right" to fulfill their own sense of importance.

No Blacks.
No Dogs.
No Irish.

Women being barred from pubs.

Gay people being refused service.

Its the dumb and bigoted in society that ensure the government/law is needed.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: NavyDoc

Honesty?
In America?

I think you're asking for too much.

LOL. Okay, okay, I got to give you that one.

the problem stems from a court ruling that stated that homosexuality is equal to race, gender, handicap and religion.

It is funny but homosexuals had all their rights covered under race, gender, handicap and religion. Nowadays, people believe the lie they are born gay.

what it is they are born with sexual drive to have sex with men or women or both and they determine which they like the best, and what sex they want to be.

I have a sign at my place that reads "permission to pass revocable for any reason".

Navydoc, I know we have a standard non-interaction pact, but I want to ask you one question, and I won't respond to your answer at all:

As a medical professional, do you believe that sexual orientation is the result of a constellation of organic and societal factors or is it simply a personal choice?

EDIT Bold text added in edit at 5:39 PM.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

what it is they are born with sexual drive to have sex with men or women or both and they determine which they like the best, and what sex they want to be.

Is that how it is for you? Are you attracted to both sexes, but chose hetero sexuality, for one reason or another?

It certainly isn't that way for me. I am in no way, shape or form sexually attracted to women. There is no way I could pretend to be.

It seems to me that people who claim that sexuality is a choice say that because it is for them. But, if that's true, that some people naturally are attracted to both sexes, and some people are naturally attracted to the opposite sex only, isn't it fair to assume that some will be naturally attracted to their same sex only?

a reply to: Gryphon66

you are simply asking him if it is the DNA or personal choice?

correct?

a reply to: windword

I am only attracted to women.

But I used to have sex with both sexes. Now I am married to a woman and only drawn to her.

Thats still considered Bisexual, Chester. Bisexual doesn't mean you're going to enter a polygamous marriage. Although I do think its possible for a persons sexuality to change to some degree through various reasons but its not commonly a choice. Heck you cant even choose what food you like and don't like. There are various biological differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals.

a reply to: beezzer

That is not discrimination. An object does not have rights. A person does. That's no different than saying its discrimination that people are not allowed to smoke in fire work shops or near gas tanks. The cigarette is the object. Does it mean smokers cant be there? No it means you cant smoke there. So bringing a gun somewhere can be forbidden but it doesnt mean gun owners are not allowed.

The right to refuse service should be linked to the disruption of the normal, lawful operation of the business. You shouldn't have to jump through extra hoops because someone claims to be special, you shouldn't be exposed to liability by a client who makes a hostile environment for your employees or does something unsafe or illegal.

But within the normal operation of the business- normal trade at the normal price normal customer behavior- I believe that all dollars must be equal regardless of who is spending them. If the dollars in my pocket can become worthless to me because of who I am, then I am being robbed of my labor.

I build a house for money. A restaurant owner buys the house from my boss. I take the money that came from the restaurant owner to the restaurant and he won't serve me. That makes him a thief plain and simple. Money is a barter facilitator. A public offer of commerce is effectively a barter contract. I did work for money because people have offered the necessities of life for that money. Then they got the benefit of my work and backed out of their end of the deal and left me holding the bag.

a reply to: The Vagabond

So in short it destabilizes the economy because the value of money is based on peoples trust in its value. If its value is changed person to person by refusal of service there is no stability economically.

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

This is complete BS! Law or not, if you own a business there should be nobody, government included, that can tell you who you HAVE to serve!

If a business doesn't want to serve gays, that should be their power to do so...How can government who you pay taxes to and that funds their salary, tell you who to serve? WE ARE THEIR BOSS, not the other way around...But it appears people just fall into the same trap, I would fight it...Who cares if you win, just on principal.

I remember you from every class in school during every month of February since 1968...

There are certain factors that businesses within the US cannot use to determine whether or not they will provide service including but not limited to race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.

Welcome to the US, we have this weird thing about not letting businesses (as in registered with their city - as in bound to certain rules that mean to prevent ostracizing certain member of the community and thus cause unrest) discriminate against people.

Some time ago I was the UP agent in a real estate office. That means that I get to deal with who ever walks in the door.

A gay man walked in and started talking in a very loud voice about how he and his husband were looking to rent a house.

So, I gave him our rental list and politely said that if there was anything that he would like to see to just call or email our rental management group.

He persisted, almost shouting, about how all he and his husband wanted to do was rent a house. Once again I handed him our list of rentals. I suggested that he review the list with his husband and if they were interested in any of the rentals to contact our rental management group and showed him the contact info.

He persisted in talking in a loud voice about renting a place and I asked him how he wanted to proceed?

He walked out. Another agent then came up to me and said he just does that to all the businesses and was looking for a lawsuit and that the people in the office all heard the conversation and I was noting but helpful.

He didn't sue us.

a reply to: Wildbob77

Although related, I dont see if youre making a point or just telling a story. Its possible he is not even married or gay. People do stuff like that all over the place in the US. Order coffee spill on self sue for not being told coffee is hot like its supposed to be and the likes.

a reply to: intrepid

hey at least I would be nice about it and have a sign on my door telling them so they wouldn't be wasting their time instead of taking their order and letting them wait around for the meal for 15 minutes and then coming back and telling them sorry but you haven't lit up yet get out!!!

which is very similar to what the church did with the family of the gay man who the pastor agreed to to the service then called 24 hours before it was scheduled to cancel!!!

want to refuse one group or another your service?? post a sign on your door so you aren't wasting people's time!

a reply to: SearchLightsInc
yes but if all the non-bigoted people would see that "no whatever sign" and read a "no not me" sign I bet the signs would soon go away! as far as I am concerned if you don't want the gays or the blacks or whatever you probably don't want me either because I'll just tell you to your face what I think about your sign!

a reply to: Aural

dis·crim·i·na·tion
/disˌkriməˈnāSHən/
noun
noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations

1. the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
"victims of racial discrimination"
synonyms: prejudice, bias, bigotry, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, unfairness, inequity, favoritism, one-sidedness, partisanship; More

antonyms: impartiality
2. recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.
"discrimination between right and wrong"


www.google.com...=discrimination+definition

Bold is mine.

You can justify, qualify, discrimination when it benefits your ideology all you want. But it is still discrimination.

originally posted by: Wildbob77
Some time ago I was the UP agent in a real estate office. That means that I get to deal with who ever walks in the door.

A gay man walked in and started talking in a very loud voice about how he and his husband were looking to rent a house.

So, I gave him our rental list and politely said that if there was anything that he would like to see to just call or email our rental management group.

He persisted, almost shouting, about how all he and his husband wanted to do was rent a house. Once again I handed him our list of rentals. I suggested that he review the list with his husband and if they were interested in any of the rentals to contact our rental management group and showed him the contact info.

He persisted in talking in a loud voice about renting a place and I asked him how he wanted to proceed?

He walked out. Another agent then came up to me and said he just does that to all the businesses and was looking for a lawsuit and that the people in the office all heard the conversation and I was noting but helpful.

He didn't sue us.

Actually that happens quite a bit. There is a whole cottage industry of lawyers who send in various protected classes: minorities, gays, disabled, etc. into businesses and see if they can come up with grounds for a lawsuit. They sue, settle for a small amount, and then go onto the next victim. Easy peasy way to make a immoral living