The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ANALYSIS of the events of 9/11.

originally posted by: LaBTop
These are photos of the, too long quotes, in this linked post of mine (click it), where that former text must be saved for the next generations of curious young truly historical minded Americans and those same youngsters from other countries :

1. files.abovetopsecret.com...
2. files.abovetopsecret.com...
3. files.abovetopsecret.com...
4. files.abovetopsecret.com...
5. files.abovetopsecret.com...

When your proof consists of links to internet conspiracy sites . . . . . .

wmd_2008 :They are ATS links to pictures I have uploaded for example your avatar from your post above I take a screen grab, crop to a size I want upload to my pics on ATS get the link for the picture and post and here YOU are.

If you require any help please just ask

LT : -- those are .jpg links you posted ! Which do not function for some reason in my Firefox _

See, again that switch of the word "window" for this sign "_".

wmd_2008, it's really time you stop underestimating other members.
You see me posting for 10 years here, my cropped by me, screenshots. And before that, in other forums, and before that, posting in Bulletin Boards. And before we had BB's and email, I used the postal service and telegraph office, faximile and telex, for communication.
And far before the handphones, I used the telephonist (operator) to put me through and later the telephone booth, then the numbers-disk and numbers-push telephones via copper wires , and before all that, we walked to talk to eachother.

Here, this is what I saw from your posts, however, now, after one day, it's visible at last :



It has something to do with the DoS attacks worldwide, also against ATS. That pesky switch from the typed word "window" to "_" in my postings, is indicative of something wrong with the ATS posting software, or my own box software (infection?).
I have during those DoS (Denial of Service) attacks, removed a rootkit bug, after performing a StartUp-scan. It could only be removed by a program called "tdsskiller" from a fresh startup, nothing else worked.
Will have to also use Malware Bites and the other one, to be sure to be clean.

When your proof consists of links to internet conspiracy sites . . . . . .

Sam, why don't you really read all the links I offered in the posts regarding that case of a former Green Beret, who seemed to have served his country as a hit man for the agencies and the army, which you don't like to hear, I suppose.

The much stranger thing in that case is, that the first HONEST judge freed him of the murder of his wife, and convicted the real murder to life in prison. WHO WAS KNOWN BY NAME, AND EVIDENCE, and still sits in prison.

This was not to the liking of his superiors, who found another judge, who, listen careful, convicted him for murder of his wife and sent this soldier ALSO FOR LIFE in prison, where he still resides.
His wife was a soldier too, who kept for years already a few diaries, which were made "missing" after their house was ransacked by the FBI and Military Police.

And those diaries were the items his superiors were really very afraid of, that was additional proof of very serious wrong doing by them.
Enough to bring them all in trouble. Lots of it.

Now we have only one witness which is no witness.
Read about the first judge....

THAT'S 2 MEN doing life, for the same murder. The first really did it, and confessed, the second, the soldier pays the price for trusting a rotten to the core, system.

This is another photo from Tom Franklin, where you can see the Vierendeel exterior columns triplets as been pushed up and out of their fits in the top ends of the lower ones, while still connected by their spandrels plates with the triplets beside them, and the same thing happened as you see, at their own top ends :

files.abovetopsecret.com...


This you see, happened at both triplets, left and right beside those corner column constructs.

Explain how such events can occur in a natural gravitational collapse. In my opinion only, when the floor- and ceiling-floor plates attached to such triplets, were "balloon-blown-up" all at once.

The best item for that, to happen, is using 4 thermobaric bombs, placed at every third floor, so the welds between the core columns where the other side of those floor-plates were attached to, were also broken.
And that explains the pulverization of all those concrete floors, and the missing huge heap of thin steel floor decks, where the concrete was poured on.

a reply to: LaBTop

So now you are a demolition and explosive expert & structural engineer then

2nd & 3rd picture in link below (this is a link to take you another web page so you are not confused)

Debris Pics

See it's a bit like the facade gap on WTC 7 they are there if people look!

What explains the pulverization of the concrete floors is 800+ tons of concrete floor slab only 4.5 inches thick dropping from up to 1300 + feet or do you think it would all land in one piece

Older but certainly not wiser

originally posted by: LaBTop

(or you do it for me, a.s.a.p.) :

2.bp.blogspot.com...

a reply to: LaBTop

But you keep forgetting that the building started to collapse MINUS any prior explosions. I do not care how much you claim they can be silenced or missed, that is a load of hooey. Thermobaric bombs are loud. Bombs are loud period. Explosives used to blast steel are VERY loud. There is a certain amount of force necessary to cut steel or blast it open. That force translates into a very loud bang that would have been audible to everyone on the street below and on every camera within a mile of the structure (not to mention the echo that would have reverberated all over Lower Manhattan.

You keep ignoring this fact or trying to make it go away. Where was the blast prior to the movement of the exterior columns inward, and where was the overpressure wave prior to collapse. Anything that was powerful enough to blast through the core columns inside would have been visible outside. Remember, explosives explode first, then the building moves, not the other way around.

originally posted by: LaBTop

(or you do it for me, a.s.a.p.) :

22:22

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: LaBTop

(or you do it for me, a.s.a.p.) :

22:22

waypastvne, Thank you for the effort of finding that photo, and the NIST FOIA video where at 22:43 the same shadow as in your software can be seen on the roof of WTC-5.
That's quite a mind moving video....

I have no problem with the above photo its east-west shadows, they do fit your "shortly after 09:59 ", time stamped software shadows outlining, perfectly.
(Btw, the shadow software's Date ruler line dot, seems to point to a late date in August.]

And since Tom Franklin really has taken that photo after WTC-2S collapsed at 09:59:04 as is crystal clear from the debris, is your remark "Time according to shadows shortly after 9:59 " correct.
Because the shadow on the northeastern roof-side of WTC-5 in your above photo leans a bit to the north, as would be expected since the sun moved from East to West in a big slow arc, pointing at the south facade of WTC-7 :

files.abovetopsecret.com...


files.abovetopsecret.com...


So, Tom Franklin's photo with the small utility-car in it, was shot shortly after 09:59:04 and certainly before WTC-1N collapsed, as proved by the shadows, and that's why WTC-7 shows no gash yet.
We agree on that, and combined with the gash video I found, we now conclusively can state that both sides, trusters and doubters in the 9/11 discussion, agree that a long gash existed in the southern facade of WTC-7, after WTC-1N collapsed. How deep it was, will always be inconclusive.

Can we now proceed to the David Chandler videos in my 3 signature LINKS.?
Especially the one that shows a straight line for the WTC-N top its collapse aceleration speed. During 6 seconds, much longer than the French natural demolition, which showed a fast deceleration of its top part, in the first seconds already.

You know that such a straight line in such a collapse its S-diagram indicates no increase of collapse speed resistance at all during those 6 seconds. Which points at explosives use.

Perhaps we can find some flaws there too? Which I personally doubt.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: LaBTop

So now you are a demolition and explosive expert & structural engineer then

2nd & 3rd picture in link below (this is a link to take you another web page so you are not confused)

Debris Pics

See it's a bit like the facade gap on WTC 7 they are there if people look!

What explains the pulverization of the concrete floors is 800+ tons of concrete floor slab only 4.5 inches thick dropping from up to 1300 + feet or do you think it would all land in one piece

Older but certainly not wiser

You keep trying to insult me, learn to mature.

wmd_2008, I'll now show you what attention to details really means, which is clearly not your interpretation of it :

Your Steve Spak photos link shows us the last excavations deep in the lower basement levels, when everything else was already scooped out.

Photo 2 and 3 are photos from pancaked basement floor-decks. Not from the tower floors.
Why?
Because concrete floor decks higher up, with their thin steel plates under them, far above ground level, were 4 inch thick poured-on concrete.
About the width of a man's hand+thumb.

Photo 2 : You can count 5 basement levels at the excavation's side (in other pics even 6). That man in photos 2 and 3 stands on one of the lowest possible basement levels floors.
Spak's photo 2 undertitle should have been : ""Numerous basements-floors from the south tower that have pancaked during the collapse of 9-11-01.""
There's also a huge steel basement-floor beam from the center to the right side. Also visible in the last photo on that page
.
May I point you also to the fact that Spak named this page : /WTC6.html.
He points us to his other page 6 : /WTC7.html with this text :
""Click here to go to page 6 for more World Trade Center Photo's taken on 3-08-02!""
Steve retired in November 2010, and his daughters Jenna and Danielle are now the new webmasters from his site.

Photo 3 : Observe the standing man's right hand width. And his left hand's width, he's holding a piece of concrete.
That hand is far smaller than the thickness of that broken-in-pieces concrete basement-floor slab in front of the man's helmet, which is at least 15 inch thick (but thicker), and has clearly 2 rows of layers of re-bar in it, spaced about 7 inch from eachother. Which those above ground upper floors didn't have.
Only the mechanical floors, but the lowest one was many floors higher than street level.(42?)
Also look at the mens grey right shoe, also about 4 inch wide, then look at the thick basement-floor slab in front of his shoe.

Photo 3 : That blockform piece of what you think is from an above-ground thin steel floor deck plate, stuck in that void, can't thus never be from an once-above-ground floor one, those can't magically flip-flop under a basement floor during collapse.
Possibly from a car shelter-shed, or tool-shed, or a pile of loose ones, in the basement, or whatever else. Not from an existing 25 year old upper floor, and still shiny as new...with no concrete stains on it, only dust specks. In max zoom, it looks more like the stacks of thick plates laying on the left side of it, in that void.

--more--

The planners of 9/11 obviously wanted the demo-job done in such a manner, that easy to handle 3 floors-height length column pieces were left over. Standard flatbed truck lengths.

You should also understand, that in every demolition job, the first blow is to start the then expected onset of a natural gravitational collapse, eventually assisted by some further down charges, to "keep it running". Once that mass is thundering down, very little has to be done to assist that smoothly proceeding collapse to the ground.

But they kept exploding "expansion" charges, they wanted finely crumbled concrete, instead of pancaked floors. Which process even NIST early on admitted already, did not happen for the floors above street level.
Because we all could see in the photographs, that did not occur.
What was in fact obvious : it was a "banana-peeling effect with mashed-up, blown outwards floors".

Why so many of you keep grasping at that stale "pancake" theory, seems beyond any logic.
But it is not, you all intuitively feel that a natural, relatively slow gravitational collapse and crumbling of these two huge structures should have looked the same as that from WTC 7, where you saw a big pile of floors with the exterior facades spread over that stacked pile of floors.
Since at WTC 7, they blew floors 5 to 13 to smithereens. Then the whole intact 34 upper floors, thundered downwards through that void, until the very sudden enormous deceleration forces that kicked in when that whole 34 floors intact mass reached the 5th floor, started to let the lower floors of the 34, crumble each next one on top of each other, and during that process the deceleration calmed down and caused the last top floors to stack on top of each other, just as we saw how it ended, in the aftermath clean-up photos.

PS : what about that frayed 3 floors high dark hole in the Liberty Street's southern bathtub wall under that ramp-rim and in between its 2 support columns, in photo 5 and 6 above his red text? (Spak's wtc6 page).
Is it a Subway train tunnel? But why the frayed sides, as if it was broken-off or out, or blown-out during the WTC 2S collapse?

PHOTOS FROM 9/11/01 AND THE CLEAN-UP AND RECOVERY OPERATION AT GROUND ZERO. by Steve Spak.

originally posted by: GenRadek
a reply to: LaBTop

But you keep forgetting that the building started to collapse MINUS any prior explosions. I do not care how much you claim they can be silenced or missed, that is a load of hooey. Thermobaric bombs are loud. Bombs are loud period. Explosives used to blast steel are VERY loud. There is a certain amount of force necessary to cut steel or blast it open. That force translates into a very loud bang that would have been audible to everyone on the street below and on every camera within a mile of the structure (not to mention the echo that would have reverberated all over Lower Manhattan.

LT : You mean just as can be heard in that FOIA freed video of the collapse of WTC 7, in my 3 sig-LINKS?
One second before you see that east penthouse start to collapse on the roof of WTC 7. A very deep, very loud low BOOOOMMM, and then 8.3 seconds later the whole building comes down, and that unmistakably accompanied by a LOT of noise, which you however do NOT hear in that video.!!!

You should also listen to what that men says in my other LINKS video, that all the explosion sounds he heard when near both collapses, must have been edited out of the videos shown on the networks, because when he came home and watched them all, all those explosion sounds were GONE.

And again, the Twin's collapses were started high up, it takes 1.5 seconds for explosion sounds to reach the ground.
Thus, what they did, was exploding some smaller charges first in the basements lowest elevator shafts that were all flooded by meters of water that leaked in from the severed main water pipe leak in the bathtub wall, just before collapse, evidenced by the huge white steam clouds emanating from the louvers in the bottom sides of the Twins (see my Hudson Pier videos sig-LINKS). That way, combined with the high-up explosions sounds that raced through the steel at a much higher speed than through air (24.000 m/s to 333 m/s) the whole collapse sequence sounded like a constantly increasing train of noise.

And _BoneZ_ made a nice video where you clearly hear the Twins explosions their characteristic sounds in increasing cadence, it's in my sig-LINKS

You keep ignoring this fact or trying to make it go away. Where was the blast prior to the movement of the exterior columns inward, and where was the overpressure wave prior to collapse. Anything that was powerful enough to blast through the core columns inside would have been visible outside. Remember, explosives explode first, then the building moves, not the other way around.

YOU keep ignoring all the explosives evidence !

That series of blasts, that cut the core columns with cutter charges, was muffled with muffler blankets (the only sound that needed muffling, the rest drowned in that freight-train of thundering noises that accompanied the few seconds later starting following collapses.
That video evidence of a cutter charge its muffler blanket that burst out a window just under the plane impact floor level, is in my sig-LINKS.

That was the real initiating collapse event, and not that ridiculous "sagging trusses" theory from NIST, which I btw just again proved to be totally wrong in my other thread which I linked to a few posts back.
It caused all 47 core columns to be pushed from its welds and be dislocated just enough, that they all 47 fell a few meter down, pushed by the weight of the hat truss and the rest of the inner core of that top part of the towers above plane impact level.

That sinking down of all those core columns after their cutting (see the WTC-1N radio mast in the center of the hat-truss, sinking first) pulled all surrounding floors (huge, composite floors) with all of their trusses a few meters downwards, and the connections at the exterior sides then pulled those exterior columns more than a meter inwards.
Then they pushed the master button, and the TB's began exploding in their 3 floor height downward cadence. Pulverizing all concrete on the steel floor decks while exploding all exterior steel triplets 70 meters and more, outwards. Some of them more than hundred meters. The instantaneous expansion force of those TB's was so huge, that whole stacks of still intact Vierendeel triplets were blown out- and first upwards.
And all that very low TB noise drowned in the collapse noises.

a reply to: LaBTop

First and foremost some REAL FACTS!

No one on either side can ever know the real extent of the damage caused by the aircraft impacts.
HAS THAT SUNK IN

What we do know.

STRUCTURAL DAMAGE was CAUSED by the aircraft impacts.
OFFICES FIRES CAN REACH temperatutes to cause a structural issue for steel. Thats why the construction industry spends 100's of millions
on fire protection every year.
DYNAMIC loads can far exceed static loads.
Tower one hit first higher up fell second smaller load above impact area.
Both towers fell in a manor consistant with the location of impact in relation to the core steel!

Other things we know people with NO idea of construction make claims like this.

Never have fires brought down steel buildings CONVIENIENTLY IGNORING the impact & structural damage.
They post picture of other fires with claims that they didn't fall down YET the steeel on those buildings did fail WITHOUT imapct from aircraft and NONE of the buildings were as massive as the WTC Towers or built with the same construction method.

They will then fall back on but those fires burned for longer.

Yet if they look at the reports they will see the steelwork failed and what stopped the steel from falling was the concrete structure.

You also make a claim that the North Tower fell at an angle by how much and can you prove that

WHY do you think the basement slabs were compacted because all you guys seem to claim next to nothing of the upper floors fell because it was all turned to dust

Also

Some of us WORK in the construction industry on a technical basis DID you
Some of us worked in the design drawing office of a STRUCTURAL STEELWORK company DID you
Some of us studied Civil Engineering DID you
Some of us WORK on projects from one off houses to £100m+ projects DID you
Some of us spend time each day on the side of buildings, in basements , on rooftops, under bridges in power stations chemical plants , hydro schemes etc etc DID you
Some us test building structural components sometimes to destruction DID you
Some of us have to make recommendations on building components DID you
Some of us have to deal with STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS on a regular basis DID you?

Some of us ONLY repeat ONLY get our information from conspiracy sources BECAUSE we have NO real life experience in the field THAT'S YOU

I have stated during the past years here at ATS that I had 25 years of extensive experience in the building industry, after I got bored with science. I had numerous building companies, and was a partly owner in others.
After that period, I got interested in science again. Logic versus mainstream accepted science especially.
Proved them old geezers, former colleagues, wrong on several things again.

originally posted by: GenRadek
Remember, explosives explode first, then the building moves, not the other way around.

But the "explosives" used on the WTC were very special explosives, as well as being silent they had a time machine in them, so they went back in time, exploded, then moved forward in time to when the building collapsed!

The silly explanations birthers have to come up with to try and fit the facts to their silly conspiracy theories get more complicated and sillier all the time!

a reply to: LaBTop

This you see, happened at both triplets, left and right beside those corner column constructs.

Explain how such events can occur in a natural gravitational collapse. In my opinion only, when the floor- and ceiling-floor plates attached to such triplets, were "balloon-blown-up" all at once.

The chaos of event sums it up.
This piece here and that piece there.

You keep claiming you are an expert with 25 years of experience.
Why aren't all the 25 year experts up in arms about 911?
Didn't you get your payoff check? Or was't it enough to keep you quiet?
You know that blackmale/hush money never lasts. A high percentage of recipients come back for more.
Why are you and only a handfull of other self proclaimed experts pissed off over the OS?

That damn bug returned !

window
window.
w i n d o w
w i n d o w.
windows.

Only when you type the word window with a dot behind it, it is affected by that strange ATS-posting window bug.
Example : window and window.

I checked it in other posts, there it's having the same effect!
Photos at this, from that ATS-thread linked-to site, took forever and ended up in those tiny teeth-faces :
Forrestal Crime Scene Photographs
(PS : now it loads again repeatedly, but from my cache I suppose.) Are the admins working on the problem now and then, causing this behavior?

Btw, I checked again today with the very long time-taking Fresh-Startup scan from Avast, so outside the Windows software, no viruses, also no root-kit virus, checked via Kaspersky's tdss rootkit-killer.
I have them viruses in my security vault, btw, those 35 viruses found during my 20-08 first Fresh-Startup scan after that DoS attack worldwide. The rootkit one is also not there anymore today, it is removed by that tdss rootkit killer software, not from Avast.

I check routinely every week already for years, on viruses, via a deep scan, never had one, only on 20-08-2014.
Performed a deep scan from within Windows, no viruses found.
Performed a Fresh-Startup scan 2,5 hrs later, 35 viruses found.

Visited after those checkups, numerous other websites, no problems, also not when I visited ATS without logging-in.

Directly after I logged in at ATS, the same slowing down occurred again, You Tube videos didn't want to load or crashed in the middle, and photos from external sites loaded extremely slowly or refused to load.
Other photos in pages I tried to load from ATS, were showing that tiny white teeth-face sign again, instead of showing the picture.

It seems to me, based on the above, that ATS has picked up some serious breaches in its forum-software during that worldwide DoS attack last week. Or are they still attacking?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: GenRadek
Remember, explosives explode first, then the building moves, not the other way around.

But the "explosives" used on the WTC were very special explosives, as well as being silent they had a time machine in them, so they went back in time, exploded, then moved forward in time to when the building collapsed!

The silly explanations birthers have to come up with to try and fit the facts to their silly conspiracy theories get more complicated and sillier all the time!

Can we now proceed to the David Chandler videos in my 3 signature LINKS.?

Especially the one that shows a straight line for the WTC-N top its collapse aceleration speed. During 6 seconds, much longer than the French natural demolition, also in my sig-LINKS, which showed a fast deceleration of its top part, in the first seconds already.

You know that such a straight line in such a collapse its S-diagram indicates no increase of collapse speed resistance at all during those 6 seconds. Which points at explosives use. It's the main indicator btw.

Perhaps YOU can find some flaws there too?
Which I personally doubt. None of you ever dared, since you know his calculus is correct.

You truster guys show to all of us, how you detest your opponents.
Take note, In a CONSPIRACY forum.
Start with showing some respect, and using real arguments build on basic calculus, instead of simple insults.

a reply to: samkent

Same invitation for you, as for hellobruce.
Come on, show us your deep funded expertise, and I'll show you mine.

a reply to: LaBTop

Strange only you have the problems you do know its not recommended to run more than one virus checker on the same machine conflicts can occur.

Check your start up program list you may have a program using up resources in your machine.