The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ANALYSIS of the events of 9/11.

a reply to: LaBTop

You might want to read the investigation report.

Here is a good start

www.mace.manchester.ac.uk...

originally posted by: lotsoftime
a reply to: GenRadek



how?, there are NO FLOORS within the core in which to act as a 'crush-down' mechanism, ON the core

.

This IDIOT that keeps getting a ban claims NO FLOORS withing the CORE can he explain how the people access the TOILETS and STAIR WELLS etc in the core area.

So when he next appears here is a core area drawing picked at random this one is the 59th floor showing the core area.



Now we also have people trying to compare building fires in structures that the MAIN STRUCTURAL ELEMENT is CONCRETE not Steel , they are of a TOTALLY different design method because of this, yet because of either a lack of construction knowledge and believing what's posted about the buildings WITHOUT CHECKING they think it's a direct comparison!

Say's it all !

LaBToP Don't you think you are trying to connect too many dots?

One person or group cannot control the worlds destiny for decades.
Common sense should tell you that.

a reply to: samkent

Sam, there are a few influential groups, and one most powerful steering group. As explained extensively by David Guyatt and E.P. Heidner.
And that conglomerate does lead governments by the hand, soft pushing or halting, whatever the situation at hand asks for.

When you have such immense fortunes at hand, which are mostly from black market gold sources, you can steer any greedy industrial giant's CEO's. Or greedy politicians, or greedy generals. After the first time they bite, they are compromised for life.

originally posted by: wmd_2008

originally posted by: lotsoftime
a reply to: GenRadek



how?, there are NO FLOORS within the core in which to act as a 'crush-down' mechanism, ON the core

.

This IDIOT that keeps getting a ban claims NO FLOORS withing the CORE can he explain how the people access the TOILETS and STAIR WELLS etc in the core area.

--snip--

You are deliberately twisting his words, he meant that those floors in the cores were laid on top of heavy steel cross beams welded to the core columns.
And do follow decorum here.

Calling other (former) members names is frowned upon, here. Especially when you have no grasp on the use of proper punctuation, as it shows. Sometimes seen as a sign of low education, which breeds the ones you classify him in.
There's also the dyslectic, who can't help being seemingly illiterate. They can be extremely intelligent, as I know several examples of.

Btw, that clearly was hgfbob, with a new name, that also got swiftly banned.

I feel not particular comfortable anymore in this corner of cyberspace. Too much tolerance for hate-speak. Lately.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: LaBTop

You might want to read the investigation report.

Here is a good start

www.mace.manchester.ac.uk...

Thank you, well done. At last someone giving sources and figures.

Their WTC 1 and 2 report is verbatim copied from the 2005 draft report by NIST. It's just a very compressed 2005 NIST facts list.
See the endless posts of hgfbob (banned) about the differences between the 2005 and 2008 NIST reports for WTC 7.

Btw, that University of Manchester report is not the test report from the University of Sheffield or Leeds or Newcastle, where they exposed a 3 stories high steel columned building they created, to hours long intensive fires, without the steel crumble or fail. Unprotected by fireproofing.

Their Windsor Tower report :
Read their Analysis at the end.

On the other hand, the reinforced concrete central core, columns, waffle slabs and transfer structures performed very well in such a severe fire. It is clear that the structural integrity and redundancy of the remaining parts of the building provided the overall stability of the building.

Sources of Information
--snip--
Dave, P. (2005). “Madrid tower designer blames missing fire protection for collapse ”. New Civil Engineer, 2 June 2005.

The Twin Towers had the same or better structural integrity and redundancy of their 47 thick steel core columns, and their thick steel crossbeams under every core's floor.
The hat truss failures are not researched.

When you read this :
Table 2 Estimated time frame of collapses (NILIM 2005)
it immediately is clear, that it was a slowly progressing partial steel and concrete floor slabs collapse, over a period of 2 hrs and 47 minutes. Definitely non-comparable to the sudden collapse of all 3 WTC Towers.

First Interstate Bank Fire, Los Angeles :

Construction Type:
Structural steel frame with lightweight concrete slab on profiled steel deck.
Fire Resistance:
Sprayed fire protection to steelwork. Automatic sprinklers system not yet commencement.
Building Type:
262 m (62 storeys). Commercial.

This construction type resembles the WTC Towers quite well.
And a good fire insulation proved sufficient to not cause a collapse.

Damage
The total burnout of four and a half floors did not cause damage to the main structural members due to a good application of sprayed fire protection on all steelwork. There was only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor decks.

Sam Kent, read what the modus operandi of some select groups were, that got hold of the Axis war-plunders, and after that moved into crucial positions inside the CIA, NSA, DIA, DEA, Pentagon and Washington. With the help of the Rothschild, Oppenheimer, Warburg, Rockefeller, etcetera families.
Read E.P. Heider's 360 pages online e-Book to find out who were/are the movers and shakers.
And the Deep Black Lies site articles by David Guyatt explain it in shorter forms, just some pages per article, and in his fascinating style :

www.deepblacklies.co.uk...

--snip-- The key to understanding the secrecy that embraces this story is that much – probably most - of gold that was plundered by Japan and Germany was already “black” gold that didn’t officially exist. Consequently, when the United States re-plundered this metal it did so in complete secrecy. Not only was there the fear of crippling the price of gold – and the world economy with it - were it discovered that monumental quantities of gold existed, in addition to official stocks, but the use to which it was to be put, also demanded secrecy.

How can fabulous volumes of gold exist when all the world’s bankers and economists continue to tell us that this metal is so rare? The answer is as prosaic as it is damning.

Mining industry sources reveal that as much as 30% of annual production of gold is quietly filtered into the “private market” and does not, therefore, impact on the official figures. In years past, off-market sales by the mining industry have been reported to be as high as 80%. The reasons for selling into the private market are varied but the central one is the avoidance of tax. In addition, as we have already noted, gold production in the former Soviet Union – the world’s second largest producer after South Africa – and that of China and Southeast Asia have never been included in official gold mining statistics.

Prior to the American Gold Rush of 1848, the amount of gold said to be in existence amounts to a miserly 10,000 tonnes. This, we are told, is the sum total of gold mined throughout the world during the preceding 5,850 years, for which mining records exist (and If you believe that, I have a nice parcel of valuable land set in the attractive Atlantic trench to sell you). Unsurprisingly, when pressed to verify the accuracy of these figures, it was admitted that they were nothing more than industry “estimates.” [32] Never-the-less, this estimate has been incorporated into current day official mining figures and punched out as actual fact. It is not hard, therefore, to conclude that there are, indeed, very substantial volumes of black gold in existence.

The total quantity of gold buried in the Philippines during WWII has been reported to be over 1 million tonnes - or roughly 90% of the worlds “actual” gold stock. [33] During the course of a seven-year investigation into the subject, this writer has accumulated information from a variety of sources suggesting this is indeed, a more accurate figure. In other words, official statistics represent a modest 10% of reality. --snip--

At some point you have to accept that you have gone from being a questioning researcher to a tin foil hatter.

There is no man behind the curtain.

The chaos factor alone means that not everything is a conspiracy.

a reply to: LaBTop

You want to find out what FEMA found out about what helped save the First Interstate Bank from serious damage:

According to the FEMA fire incident report on the subject, unusually good application of fireproofing on support members was a significant mitigating factor. The efficacy of the fireproofing was documented both by FEMA and IFC. Fireproofing of structural steel in the US is tested to ASTM E119 Standard Test Methods for Fire Tests of Building Construction and Materials.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also the report:
www.webcitation.org... 0-07-13

Unusually good application of fire resistive coating helped maintain structural integrity in fire.
Pg. 6 of the online document (pg 2 on the actual document)

originally posted by: LaBTop

originally posted by: wmd_2008

originally posted by: lotsoftime
a reply to: GenRadek



how?, there are NO FLOORS within the core in which to act as a 'crush-down' mechanism, ON the core

.

This IDIOT that keeps getting a ban claims NO FLOORS withing the CORE can he explain how the people access the TOILETS and STAIR WELLS etc in the core area.

--snip--

You are deliberately twisting his words, he meant that those floors in the cores were laid on top of heavy steel cross beams welded to the core columns.
And do follow decorum here.

Calling other (former) members names is frowned upon, here. Especially when you have no grasp on the use of proper punctuation, as it shows. Sometimes seen as a sign of low education, which breeds the ones you classify him in.
There's also the dyslectic, who can't help being seemingly illiterate. They can be extremely intelligent, as I know several examples of.

Btw, that clearly was hgfbob, with a new name, that also got swiftly banned.

I feel not particular comfortable anymore in this corner of cyberspace. Too much tolerance for hate-speak. Lately.

He is not worth calling a member as he has been banned under EVERY user name (at least 6) within days, what do you think spanned between the beams (which are not that massive they DON'T have to be)


Have you checked the construction of the buildings on your so called steel building fire post.

a reply to: LaBTop

Also LaBTop, was this 1st Interstate Bank building a trussed design? Cause a structural steel frame is more in tune with steel beams and columns than columns and trusses supporting floors.

I am sure you have read about One Meridian Plaza burned and what happened inside there:
failures.wikispaces.com...

Pay close attention to the steel beams supporting the floors above and what happened to them. Mind you, WTC Towers did NOT have floors built this way. They had light steel trusses that are much thinner than the beams we see at One Meridian Plaza. But look closely, if that can happen to steel beams in a fire, what do you think would have happened to the thinner trusses? Ask a firefighter if you get a chance what their views are on going into a burning building with a truss supported roof. (Hint: Never trust a truss)

I think it would be fair to say the floor construction of WTC was very similar to the roof construction at your local Walmart.
Except that Your Walmart doesn't have the added weight of concrete.

originally posted by: samkent
At some point you have to accept that you have gone from being a questioning researcher to a tin foil hatter.

There is no man behind the curtain.

The chaos factor alone means that not everything is a conspiracy.

originally posted by: samkent
LaBToP Don't you think you are trying to connect too many dots?

One person or group cannot control the worlds destiny for decades.
Common sense should tell you that.

It seems the CIA (with of course the warm breath of the NSA in their necks) would logically take that position, easily.
And the person of the Elder Bush fits in that niche superbly. I will backup my case with the following :


As a fresh reader of 9/11 related foreplay, this US court piece will REALLY open your eyes regarding the filthy intertwined illegal or secretive Mafia-Police-Army-CIA operations that are going on during every day of your life, and that lead to 9/11, and its aftermath, up to this day still enfolding on a global scale.

You will read the full 101 pages with more and more rising awe...

It is a 1998 court deposition by the daughter of Albert V. Carone, a strange man who worked for at least four "masters" all his active life, every day for all four of them.
In the defense of William M. Tyree, Jr., Plaintiff vs. Central
Intelligence Agency (CIA), L. Scott Harshbarger, A. Paul Celluci,
George Bush (former US president), Dois Gene Tatum, Defendants.
Case No. 98-CV-11829 JLT
Filed in The United States District Court, District of Mass.


Mr Tyree used to work as a Green Beret hit-man for mixed Military/CIA assignments. And was known by the deponents father, Mr Carone as "Sandy".


Albert V. Carone began as a boy already, working for the Mafia (Cosa Nostra) later as their highly respected "bag-man" (p.44-47), then in the New York Police department as an intermediate paymaster between Police departments, CIA, Mafia and Military, while also serving in WW II and later in the US Army retiring as a Colonel in their Intelligence branches, and all the time in the CIA as a "fixer" and/or paymaster. Or any other mixed time lines.
He spoke Japanese, he spoke Chinese, he spoke Korean and he spoke Vietnamese.
He constantly got phone calls at home from his Army friends, like General Leroy Manner, General Richard Stilwell (guerrilla-training), and many more.
He was close friends to CIA's later director William "Bill" Casey (p.34), Colonel Oliver North and president Noriega of Iran Contra fame (drugs, for weapons for Iran to free the hostages and make Reagan president instead of Carter), the whole Nugan Hand Bank (Frank Nugan and Michael Hand, Donald Beasley, Edwin Black, Harry Wainwright, Paul Hollywell), the white-washers for the CIA, Bill Stryker, Michael Harari (Mossad) (p.42), James Strauss (p.40-41), Elliot Abrams (p.55) and lots more.
Start reading for all that CIA stuff, from page 47 up.


He got poisoned by "the Suits" after having witnessed the murdering of a whole Mexican village its inhabitants, and after that he refused to adhere anymore to the rules of the CIA.
After that refusal he got most probably half-baked poisoned, and then he began to tell his daughter some details of his life as a quadruple agent.
It took him 5 years to die after the poison hit. So his daughter heard quite a lot from him about his secret life.

Crime, crime-fighters, soldiers and spies, all intermingled in disgustingly dirty, secret US turf-wars.
It will of course be the same in all other countries on earth.

When some of the real important morals of human life will have been reinstalled in the minds of the decision makers, we perhaps will have a chance to survive as a humane race.

The following is a short (smile) excerpt of the 101 pages long 1998 court deposition, since it is a bit cumbersome to get to this article by David Guatt :

--more--

Jim Strauss stated that he worked with my father with the agency and the last mission they went on was in 1984/85 to a place called Tapechula, Mexico. It was around the time that a good friend of my father's by the name of Kiko Comeraina, who was a DEA agent, was murdered.
RK: Who told you?

--snip--

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

(p.62)DF: He was tired of the drug trafficking. He had made the remark that it had gone on for very long, that they stuck it in the black community because nobody would really give a damn about the Harlem and East Harlem area and that they realized that a lot of money could be made and who would listen to those people anyway.
RK: Now when you state the drug trade, did he mention anybody in particular?
DF: As far as the drug trade?
RK: Right.

--snip--

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

(p.79)RK: Alder Berrimen Seal?
DF: If it is Barry Seal that you are asking me about, my father worked very closely with Barry Seal.
RK: Where?
DF: Drug running.
RK: Do you have an idea of the year?
DF: No, I do not. I know my father told me that Barry Seal would be taken out. He would be eliminated and he was. I don't know by whom.
RK: Did he say anything else about Mr. Seal?
DF: No.
RK: William Colby?
DF: Yes. My father worked with William Colby. He stated that Bill Colby used to do the work out of his desk drawer. He was not too organized.
RK: Did he indicate a long association with Mr. Colby?
DF: I do not know how long their association was.
RK: John Singlaub?
DF: General Singlaub. My father referred to as an asshole.
--snip--

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

I have a feeling that a lot of the above deposition would have had no influence on the proceedings against Mr Tyree, since most of it is based on hearsay. If not nearly all.
It however gives us quite the shocking insight into the power shifts during and after WW II.
The Agencies have collected so much gold/money, and dirt on literally everyone in the USA and on lots of for them interesting other people in the rest of the world, that in fact they now rule that world, from a few very secretive locations.

They steer the real important decisions, for many decades already.
Get used to it, and swim with the current...

PS : To me, it seems Mr Tyree (Sandy) his wife Elaine got murdered by a CIA hit-man for her possession of those few diaries she wrote, then the blame was laid on her husband.

End.
The usual two flies in one hit adagio from the CIA planners.

It's a chilly world out there, kids. Be prepared.

Wow so secret CIA/NSA/military activities and clandestine operations during the 60s-90s is somehow evidence of 9/11 inside jobbery?

Really??

Just put the text :
Case No. 98-CV-11829-JLT
into Google Search window, and you get 474 results.

One of them, certainly even more interesting now you have read the above :
Persecution of Tyree & MacDonald
A US $ 63 million lawsuit....

Much more background information :

-- was filed by Massachusetts attorney Ray Kohlman on behalf of former Green Beret William M. (Bill) Tyree. Kohlman, a former legal investigator for attorney William Pepper in the Martin Luther King, Jr, murder trial of James Earl Ray, filed a 101-page complaint on behalf of his client. The suit, replete with five inches of affidavits and appendices, names the Central Intelligence Agency, former Massachusetts Governor A. Paul Cellucci, former Massachusetts Attorney-General L. Scott Harshbarger, former CIA Director and US President George Bush, and self-admitted government assassin D. Gene Tatum as Defendants in a far-reaching case involving US Government - sanctioned drug smuggling, murder and cover-up.
Bill Tyree is currently serving a life sentence for the murder of his wife - a case eerily similar to that of Dr Jeffrey MacDonald, a Fort Bragg doctor who was framed for the murder of his wife and children in the early 1980s.

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

a reply to: douglas5 The best information about the Jap war booty falling into the CIA/Bankster/Oligarch/Military Industrial Complex's/Shadow Government's hands come from the book Gold Warriors by the Seagraves.
Dulles and his minions are all over this capper.