One Gaza Issue Resolved. Israel Not Targeting Women and Children.

To be honest with you.
Percentages mean nothing when it's civilians who are being killed and I'm afraid that's what's happening in this conflict.
Israel are targeting civilians .....they don't seem to be fighting an army.....just normal people.

In this war, however, the collateral damage is the goal

www.lohud.com...

a jewish perspective

wow. Looks like Israel and its supporters are trying to cover up war crimes and change public opinion. The kids playing soccer on the beach were targeted. The Israeli cowards were watching them through American hi-fi technology and knew exactly that they were only kids and no threat, and yet, they still decimated them. Israel bombs known safe shelters after being told many times what they were. Israel is done. Finished. Too many people are looking into Zionism now. But after Israel is reclaimed they will still be comfortable in their strongholds in New York City, London, Paris, etc.. But at least now the world is looking at them. The internet is the worst thing that could've ever happened to the Zionists. Exposure = dragging evil into the light. Thanks internet! I hope all Americans took notice when Bloomberg flew into Israel, his homeland. Some New Yorkers are starting to wake up too.

a reply to: sosobad

Dear sosobad,

Both are monsters, you are just trying to justify one side over the other.

That's not true. I am pointing out that the claim that Israel is targeting women and children is false.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: rigel4

Dear rigel4,

Your premise is entirely wrong... and if i do say so..... DESPERATE! If I can just point out that the female children also count as woman the percentage goes up.

Please read the source article. Your concern is misplaced.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Charles why did you just post back a quote from me? If you are implying that I am defending Hamas, then no, I will call out the bs that puts all the blame squarely on them and absolve the IDF of any wrong doing but read my quote again, they are both monsters.

Great thread OP.

Regardless of the number of civilian casualties, and the percentage that represents women and children, the death toll has been tragic. Everyone can agree on that point.

I will say this though. Considering the deplorable tactics that Hamas employs to shield their militants, missile launchers, and weapons depots, I think the civilian death toll would be much higher if the IDF didn't take measures to warn residents in advance.

For all the criticism that Israel gets around here, I can't think of another military that has ever gone to such lengths to minimize collateral damage.

Thread is not quite true. We know that targeting children isn't the prime objective of the Israeli Military, it wouldn't make strategic sense.

However we do know that they specifically targeted those children on the beach. We have video and eyewitness testimony that they are killing unarmed civilians, in some cases with white flags with sniper fire and other weapons. We know that Israel is targeting UN shelters and hospitals and other medical facilities where they KNOW that there are women and children, in many cases after being warned that there are women and children inside.

Israel has committed war crimes as they have in the past and the US and other world powers are doing their best to cover it up.

It is okay to be against the Israeli government's policies. That doesn't make you anti Israel or and anti Semite or anything like that.

Keep in mind too that Hamas is a terrorist organization, but that does not give you the right to kill children.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Dear hopenotfeariswhatweneed,

Thank you very much for a response which at least indicates some thought, it's a pleasant change.

if the IDF were to risk a few more soldiers initially they have a much higher chance of targeting and killing the Hamas leadership and down through the ranks...this way they could reduce the number of innocent civilians killed as well ...not only that they have a better chance of losing less soldiers in the long run ..both sides are better off...continually bombing targets and hoping to achieve their goal seems a little strange and another reason i am sure that it looks like they are targeting innocents ...

in war there are casualties that is a given...but a targeted attack would seemingly solve a lot of issues along the way

While this isn't the main purpose of the thread, I think I did bring it up and you deserve an answer.

The soldiers that go into Gaza will be attacked from buildings (If Hamas is out in the open they're spotted more quickly and have no cover). When the IDF is attacked from a building, they'll call in artillery to level the building. Which, of course, is close to what is happening now.

There may be civilians in the building as well. More civilian casualties. And if the shooter fires from the third floor of a hospital?

If Hamas wants to keep themselves largely intact, they use perhaps 10% of their force as snipers, the rest hide. If the Israeli soldiers are patrolling the streets and a person walks toward them, how do the soldiers know if he's Hamas or not? Any civilian who talks will be killed, along with his family, they know that.

And I can hear an Israeli general saying to himself, "Wait a minute, Hamas fires rockets without caring whether they kill our civilians. I'm supposed to let my men be killed to protect their civilians? In what war was an enemy held built up area attacked in which civilians didn't die? If they're concerned about their civilians, let them surrender and their people will be safe."

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: Ironclad2000

I'm not sure that what you wrote is what you meant to say, at least I sincerely hope it isn't.

Honestly, I hope that someday, someone else will "not deliberately", target Israeli women and children while carpet bombing them to oblivion.

I understand that passions can get inflamed while discussing this subject. Don't you think this is excessive. Besides the fact that it is an inhuman thought, it destroys the argument of everyone posting against Israel in this thread.

If you are perfectly willing to see a total civilian population wiped out, it could just as well be Hamas'

Maybe they aren't targeting civilians, but they sure as hell couldn't give a crap about weather they kill them or not. This is evident by the number of videos showing Israeli spectators sitting on deck chairs, munching popcorn and cheering the bombing of schools and school children.

False twice. The Israeli government and military does care, and the spectators had no idea where the bombs were going.

Besides, after having to run to the shelters several times a day, I'd be happy to see some action taken against the people bombing me.

a reply to: buster2010

Face it Chuck you support this generations Nazis you should start working on your goosestepping now.

Now I know I'm right. If even buster2010 has run out of arguments and has been reduced to childish name-calling, my point has been established without doubt and I am satisfied.

Israeli targets INCLUDE women and children.

It is moot anyway. Avoiding innocent casualties is written in the International laws for rules of engagement. Israel has agreed to no such rules so there are no laws broken. These laws are adopted or written to help avoid the public protests and a sign that the nation is a legitimate, law abiding nation. Since Israel has no chance of ever being considered legitimate by the majority of the world, they really have nothing to lose. I don't know why they waste their time trying to convince the world they are just. They don't care either way.

a reply to: dodol

Dear dodol,

Please understand what this thread is about. Reread the OP if necessary. Nobody is attempting to justify murder.

On occasion war is a necessary last resort. It is flawed thinking to believe that war should always and everywhere to be avoided.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: charles1952
Now I know I'm right. If even buster2010 has run out of arguments and has been reduced to childish name-calling, my point has been established without doubt and I am satisfied.

No, you just inhuman while trying to justify killings of civilians.

In my own opinion, you are equal to those mentally ill people who are trying to justify or minimize terror Jews went trough in second world war. Both far off from any reason and both in their own world of justification that has no single shred of evidence...

Question for you - how much do you get paid for this?

Really?

Charles is a long standing, well respected member of ATS, and he has contributed to many threads covering a variety of topics.

But of course, he must be a paid shill because he provided a substantiated opinion that doesn't fit your narrative, right?

Give it up already. It's lame and it's getting old.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Dear SuperFrog,

As I have told others, please try to understand what this thread is about. No one is trying to justify anything. Please return to the subject.

By the way, your name calling and slurs are getting boring. It was kind of fun the first few times somebody tried to convict me of racism and Nazi sympathies, but now I see it as dull and unimaginative. Certainly you can do better than that. I haven't even bothered to alert the mods for some of the name-calling in this thread. As I mentioned earlier, it just shows that there are no arguments left.

If you'd like to try something else I'd be glad to listen. And if by some chance you have something to say that's on the topic, I'd be really delighted.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
Really?

Charles is a long standing, well respected member of ATS, and he has contributed to many threads covering a variety of topics.

But of course, he must be a paid shill because he provided a substantiated opinion that doesn't fit your narrative, right?

Give it up already. It's lame and it's getting old.

Maybe he is smarter then you, getting paid while doing something he likes...

Asking question does not cost anything, does it? I mean, it is an honest question....

I think we already established that you as well choose incorrect nick... human means for all humans, not for certain kind of humans.

a reply to: SuperFrog

And maybe you have no clue what you're talking about, or have any grounds to make assumptions about people you know nothing about.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Dear InverseLookingGlass,

Thank you for a post that has some bearing on the subject. Let me deal with the easy stuff first.

Avoiding women and children? And you show some prevalence statistics? And that changes the moral composition of the problem to you?

Good, I'm glad we agree that Israel is making a serious effort to avoid killing women and children.

Israel shells hospitals and schools.

Israel shells what it reasonably believes to be command centers, weapons storage areas, and rocket launching sites.

They routinely manifest prideful vengeance in the most evil ways.

Vengeance, as you may know, is retaliation outside the legal process. By using that word, you indicate that Israel is responding to Hamas' attack. There is no legal process Israel can appeal to that would stop the attacks.

Israel intentionally employs civilian attrition as a strategy against people in a giant fenced concentration camp.

As has been pointed out many times, Israel takes very unusual steps to prevent Gazan civilian casualties. Hamas, on the other hand takes unusual steps to ensure civilian casualties.

Israel declares a 3 km zone around Gaza that soldiers can destroy anything that moves. They have shot children and non-combatants in this zone numerous times, including a 13 YO girl in the back.

I'm not familiar with those stories. I suspect this zone must have been within the last month. It's hard for me to comment on. But, if I was living in an area which was at war with a much more powerful country, and that country told me not to go someplace, I wouldn't go there.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: lambros56

Dear lambro56,

If I may summarize my responses to similar posts?

It appears that people are now accepting the idea that Israel is not targeting women and children. The fall back position is that they are targeting civilians. Apparently, people are assuming that if a civilian in Gaza dies, it was by an Israeli weapon, the person was known to be a civilian, and the IDF changed the aim of the weapon away from a legitimate military target to hit the civilian.

When you say they don't seem to be fighting an army, you're correct in the traditional sense of the word "army." Hamas is not acting like any traditional army, they're attempting to appear to be part of the civilian population in many cases.

With respect,
Charles1952