One Gaza Issue Resolved. Israel Not Targeting Women and Children.

Dear ATSers,

To solve a complicated problem like Gaza, it helps to see if some parts of it can be resolved. That way the really troublesome issues can be exposed and worked on. Now, finally, we can dismiss the claim that Israel is deliberately targeting women and children. They are not.

Here's how we know. Assume that women are half of Gaza's population. If Israel was engaged in random bombing, not targeting anyone in particular, about half of the deaths would be women. If they were targeting women, then women would represent more than half of those killed.

The portion that were female rose steadily over that period, to 27 percent July 26-31.

It is not statistically possible for Israel to be targeting women when only 27% of those killed are female.

But the claim is "Israel is targeting women and children." What do those numbers show?

At the same time, women and children under 15, the least likely to be legitimate targets, were the most underrepresented, making up 71 percent of the population and 33 percent of the known-age casualties.

Again, we see that any fair reading of the numbers show that Israel seems to be avoiding women and children, not targeting them. So who is getting killed?

The Times analysis, looking at 1,431 names, shows that the population most likely to be militants, men ages 20 to 29, is also the most overrepresented in the death toll: They are 9 percent of Gaza’s 1.7 million residents, but 34 percent of those killed whose ages were provided.

www.nytimes.com...

From another source which was about two weeks earlier:

77.7 percent of the dead are male. Only 22.3 percent are female.

44 percent of the dead are men 18-28. Another 20 percent are men 29 to 48. Of the dead, 12 percent of the casualties are clearly children.

These numbers seem high, but Gaza demographics place 45% of the population in the 0-14 age group due to the high birth rate. That means there are a lot of children which dramatically increases the probability of children being killed during the fighting.

While they make up nearly half the population, they make up a disproportionately smaller percentage of the dead, demonstrating once again that Israel is going out of its way to limit civilian casualties and that its targets are military.

warsclerotic.wordpress.com...

So now we know. Israel is not targeting women and children. I trust your threads and posts will reflect that fact.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Charles,

Really?

If it makes you feel better, go for it.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Dear FyreByrd,

I think you have a pretty fair mind, have you any objection to the OP? Is it false? Would you kindly show me where?

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Who Israel is targeting is not my concern. What is my concern, is that my tax dollars are paying for their war.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Dear BELIEVERpriest,

That's an interesting position. I might point out that it appears many people are accusing Israel of intentionally murdering women and children. It seemed to me important to get the facts established, at least on this issue.

But, a little off the topic, is there any war you would like to see your tax dollars go to?

With respect,
Charles1952

How do you explain the beach massacre ?

When you murder kids playing soccer on a beach, it seems to me they are targeting children.

How many percent of the dead were soldiers and how many were regular citizens. That would be my interest, how many percent were people not fighting this war.

a reply to: charles1952

I would like to see my tax dollars put a stop to ISIS, but I know that it will not happen as my tax dollars paid for their rise too.

I dont know that Israel is specifically targeting civilians, but I do believe that they formed and control Hamas, the same way America has always created and controlled its own enemies. The Gaza war is designed to draw the world's eye away from ISIS, IMO.

Just because women and children make up less than half of the percentage killed in Gaza, doesn't mean that Israel is not intentionally targeting them. We only have to look at the 7 times Israel has shelled refugee shelters, or the variety of times they have hit mosques and hospitals, to see that Israel doesn't display too much regard for innocent Palestinian life. Indeed, when roughly 75% of the overall casualties are civilians, it absolutely proves that there are flaws with Israel's policies in regards to waging war with Hamas.

a reply to: rickymouse

Dear rickymouse,

Excellent question and one we'll never have an answer to. Hamas says 10%, Israel says 50%. Besides, Israel and Hamas have different definitions for a fighter and a civilian. From The New York Times article:

It seems unlikely that there will ever be a definitive breakdown both sides accept: Israel contends that some of the casualties were caused by errant Hamas rockets or mortars. Human rights groups acknowledge that people killed by Hamas as collaborators and people who died naturally, or perhaps through domestic violence, are most likely counted as well.

Then there is the question of who counts as a “combatant.”

There are uniformed men actively firing weapons. But Hamas also has political figures, members of its security service and employees of its ministries. In some eyes, anyone affiliated with the organization, which professes a goal of destroying Israel, is a combatant.

With respect,
Charles1952

Man i feel so much better know, its been proven cough cough that mostly males adults have been targeted for murder.

Great world we live in.

a reply to: charles1952

Since when is it ok to kill a politician and civil servants because of behing part of an extremist party.

a reply to: charles1952

Awesome post, they can't lie their way around the numbers.

a reply to: daaskapital

Dear daaskapital,

I'm not sure I understand your objection. Israel is killing far fewer women and children than they would if they were just firing randomly. You seem to be saying that Israel is targeting women, but they're not killing any.

Indeed, when roughly 75% of the overall casualties are civilians, it absolutely proves that there are flaws with Israel's policies in regards to waging war with Hamas.

The 75% is an nice figure, a little closer to Hamas' claim than Israel's, but that doesn't matter. I'm grateful to you. I was wondering what was going to be the next position when the idea of "targeting women and children" was no longer believable. I suppose it will be "killing innocents."

Two questions which you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

1.) When enemy fighters are in a city, how do you get them out while losing the smallest number of your own people?

2.) Has it been established that Hamas doesn't turn shelters, schools, or hospitals into military targets?

With respect,
Charles1952

They shouldn't be targeting ANY civilians END OF! This strip of land 35mile x 7mile Approx., is an inescapable ghetto and nothing more and Isreal won't be happy until they Occupy it all.

a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Dear dukeofjive696969,

Since when is it ok to kill a politician and civil servants because of behing part of an extremist party.

That's what you think Hamas is? Just an extremist party? And the leaders and armed terrorists are "politicians" and "civil servants?"

Let me put this gently. I don't think you are accurately describing Hamas' role in the middle-east. Perhaps some other poster will reply more forcefully.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Dude all your doing is trying to act like you know better, and that you have un refutable proof that israel is not killing civilians. They have in the past and they wont change there policies.

But if it helps to feel less guilty go for it.

Murder is murder

a reply to: Wiseupall

Dear Wiseupall,

Do you agree that the analysis of deaths shows that Israel is not targeting women and children?

A little off-topic, but how can you tell which ones are innocents and which are Hamas soldiers? It seems fair to me that if you're a young male hanging around a rocket launching site, you've lost your innocence.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952
Oh im sorry but you posted an article that said that israel does not see the difference between a fighter to a civil servant, not even my words. So no proof just alot of hot air.

Man it would be so much easier if people could just come out and say how they really feel about so and so, no need to hide behind big words or using facts to explain how killing of a people is ok.

a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Dear dukeofjive696969,

It appears that you've missed the point of the OP.

I have never claimed that Israel is not killing civilians. I am claiming that Israel is not intentionally targeting women and children. If you don't accept the numbers in my sources, feel free to discuss them, but please stay on the topic.

With respect,
Charles1952