Youtube: How your religion appears to us nonbelievers

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Proof of God is everywhere and in everything. That is not just evidence. It is solid proof.

Well, that much we agree on.
I'm not an atheist. I'm a Deist/Agnostic...in that order.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I view you as an agnostic Deist.

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Okay fine, whatever.
At least you don't view me as a dirty stupid hippie know-nothing.

That's a start.

a reply to: Ghost147

Believers are taught that they are persecuted and hated. The more they are persecuted the better christian they are and the lager threat they are to Satan, hence the reason for persecution.

Due to this mind set, it is easy to see why someone would look for evidence of being persecuted where there is none. We have someone here that feels they must be on the defensive, because they are told they are being attacked, when reality they are just being disagreed with.

It isn't really their fault though. It is what has been drilled into their head and is a thought process that is difficult to break away from.

Having been raised in Christianity my whole life and believing that I was being persecuted, it took experiencing real persecution as a non-believer to realize I had never experienced persecution as a believer, despite I truly thought and felt that I was. When you hear that you are, day in and day out, you become a little paranoid.

There is no proof God or Jesus created anything, anywhere. In fact, here is a history lesson for you. Of all the ancient cities, there is only one that has never been mentioned in any other historical document of any kind at any point in time. One city never referenced by any ancient scholars. One city never mentioned in any ancient scrolls. No archaeological evidence of any sort. And what city is that? Nazareth. It is found in only one document, the bible. One then must conclude that it is not a real city, and therefore by default the bible is not a historical reference.

a reply to: haarvik

Archaeology[edit]
According to the Israel Antiquities Authority, "The artifacts recovered from inside the building were few and mostly included fragments of pottery vessels from the Early Roman period (the first and second centuries AD)... Another hewn pit, whose entrance was apparently camouflaged, was excavated and a few pottery sherds from the Early Roman period were found inside it." Alexandre adds that "based on other excavations that I conducted in other villages in the region, this pit was probably hewn as part of the preparations by the Jews to protect themselves during the Great Revolt against the Romans in 67 AD".[74] Noteworthy is that all the post-Iron Age tombs in the Nazareth basin (approximately two dozen) are of the kokh (plural kokhim) or later types; this type probably first appeared in Galilee in the middle of the 1st century AD.[75] Kokh tombs in the Nazareth area have been excavated by B. Bagatti, N. Feig, Z. Yavor, and noted by Z. Gal.[76]

Excavations conducted prior to 1931 in the Franciscan venerated area revealed no trace of a Greek or Roman settlement there,[77] Fr. Bagatti, who acted as the principal archaeologist for the venerated sites in Nazareth, unearthed quantities of later Roman and Byzantine artifacts,[78] attesting to unambiguous human presence there from the 2nd century AD onward. John Dominic Crossan, a noted New Testament scholar, remarked that Bagatti's archaeological drawings indicate just how small the village actually was, suggesting that it was little more than an insignificant hamlet.[79]

In the mid-1990s, a shopkeeper discovered tunnels under his shop near Mary's Well in Nazareth. The tunnels were identified as the hypocaust of a bathhouse.[80] Excavations in 1997-98 revealed remains dating from the Roman, Crusader, Mamluk and Ottoman periods.[81][82][83][84][85]

en.wikipedia.org...

It was a very small hamlet back then, but there are artifacts - not to mention tombs - from around that time period.

Of all the ancient cities, there is only one that has never been mentioned in any other historical document of any kind at any point in time.

It wasn't an ancient city. It was a very small hamlet. Modern scholars, secular or otherwise, estimate the population around 500 during the time of Jesus.

James F. Strange, an American archaeologist, notes: "Nazareth is not mentioned in ancient Jewish sources earlier than the third century AD. This likely reflects its lack of prominence both in Galilee and in Judaea."[37] Strange originally calculated the population of Nazareth at the time of Christ as "roughly 1,600 to 2,000 people" but, in a subsequent publication, revised this figure down to "a maximum of about 480."[38] In 2009 Israeli archaeologist Yardenna Alexandre excavated archaeological remains in Nazareth that might date to the time of Jesus in the early Roman period. Alexandre told reporters, "The discovery is of the utmost importance since it reveals for the very first time a house from the Jewish village of Nazareth."[39]

Hardly an "ancient city." It was a very small human settlement.

As for proof of creation: it is everywhere.

a reply to: Xaphan

Lol I loved the stereotypes put forward in this video as well as the when the Pentecostal person starts speaking tounges

originally posted by: haarvik
a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Sure there is. American Indians had Sun, wind and rain gods. The Egyptians had Ra the sun god. And the list goes on. Religion has been setup to be a fail safe doctrine. No proof, just circumstantial evidence based on opinions and hearsay. And of course all texts have been written in such a way as to keep the believer in a loop of denial. Faith, blasphemy and so forth. There is always a passage or saying that will negate any logical or proven explanation.

Hebrew tablets have been found in the Americas dated to ancient times. Anyways, nothing you said proved your statement that people worshiped God's creations before God. I am aware that people worship His creations to this day, but it does not prove your statement made here:

Morality is dictated by nature. Without it we as a species would not have survived for as long as we have. Before there was any organized religion, people worshiped forces they could not understand. The sun, wind, rain, etc. They had no "God" and yet they had morality and a sense of community. The analogy that this "God" is what provides morality is completely wrong and flawed. It has been exploited by organized religion, especially the christians.

a reply to: haarvik

Morality is dictated by nature

Nature? Please tell me how natural selection a random act that could careless if we survive as a species or not could cause a universal moral code to come into existence.

Before there was any organized religion, people worshiped forces they could not understand. The sun, wind, rain, etc.

Before organized religion and exactly what period of time would you be referring too? Sure there are people who worship the forces of nature, but can you also say that it isn't possible that people were already worshipping YHWH then? The Zodiac is the Babylonian perversion of the Hebrew Mazzaroth. Each star of the twelve constellations has a Hebrew name and it tells the story of the Messiah. It is how people before writing chose to pass down the word of God. They also used rhetorical metering to allow for easy recall of Scripture. They had no God? Who is they?

You still haven't given any explanation as to how a moral law can exist without a moral law giver.

a reply to: Klassified

I have lurked on ATS for years now. Probably 5 or 6 without ever posting or even registering. This made me want to.


Not all christians are this way. I consider myself a devout christian , but I do not beat people over the head with my bible, I do not think I am better than you, I do not think you will go to hell and I wont, I do not think the world is 5000 years old, almost any stereotype you can come up with for christianity I do not fit into. Religion just like with anything else is stereotyped typically by the loudest and most ignorant.
All of us would do well to stay entirely out of each others personal moral code, worry about the larger problems that this world has and work together to fix them.

What offends me are people like this guy who assume that Christians are brainwashed idiots

a reply to: Bone75

The fact that you make the decision to be offended speaks volumes

God reveals Himself to those who seek Him. In this life. He also sends angels to save people ALL THE TIME

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Amazing , an omnipotent, omniscient being, the creator of all that there is, was, and will ever be, needs angel to persuade his creations that he exists.

Do you believe faeries are real ? If not, why not ?

originally posted by: ChristianJihad

God reveals Himself to those who seek Him. In this life. He also sends angels to save people ALL THE TIME

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Amazing , an omnipotent, omniscient being, the creator of all that there is, was, and will ever be, needs angel to persuade his creations that he exists.

I never said He needs to do anything. I said what He chooses to do. And I never said He chooses to use angels to persuade his creations that He exists. I said He chooses to use His angels to save some people when He sees fit to do so.

originally posted by: haarvik
Nazareth. It is found in only one document, the bible. One then must conclude that it is not a real city, and therefore by default the bible is not a historical reference.

Incorrect...

"...an archeological discovery made in 1955 under the foundations of the Church of the Annunciation in Nazareth indicated the town was inhabited before the Christian era. A third century marble inscription found at the seat of Roman government in the city of Caesarea appears to be a tablet naming the town of Nazareth."

www.grantjeffrey.com...
www.mythicistpapers.com...

One strong argument for the historic existence of Nazareth, however, is a large 24” by 15” marble tablet containing an edict of Caesar (either Tiberius or Claudius), found in Caesarea. This artifact was uncovered in three fragments, the final third being discovered in 1962. It is known as the Nazareth inscription since it’s the first known inscription citing the name Nazareth. It contains a list of 24 priests (see 1 Chronicles 25:7-8 for these priestly orders) with their surnames and the locations of the Galilean towns where they relocated following the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.
www.dubiousdisciple.com...

a reply to: Charizard

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:05 PM link quote reply It was a pretty good analogy. I think he also should have made a point that sometimes people come in and hurt you (the child) yet the 'father' does nothing to help despite you having done everything he asked and despite his supposed love for you.

If you think that analogy related to the premise of the Bible I am sorry, but you need to study the Bible a bit more. I don't mean read it and believe what it says, but at least honestly study it without preconceived notions, and if you find something you seem is *up for interpretation* pay attention to context and the rules of grammar. This means you must use a concordance and study the original language along the way. If you don't care that much then don't pretend to understand what the religion is about.


He brings up the same point you are making here with that statement. You are bringing up the problem of Evil(people hurting you). How do you suppose there is an objective Evil, but no objective Good?

Why? I always feel that's a rather arrogant thing to say. To think that you're so special that you could be hand-picked to survive a catastrophe out of all the other innocent men, women and children who died alongside you for no reason. Why wouldn't god save them? Most of them did nothing wrong either.

Simple answer God chose to. Maybe He needed them to for another purpose later down the road? Why would you be upset that he chose to save someone? We live in a fallen world. Thats why evil is here. Thats a very short answer. If you want God to get rid of all of the Evil in the world why shouldn't he start with you or me?

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
If you want God to get rid of all of the Evil in the world why shouldn't he start with you or me?

Exactly...

Why do WE allow evil?

Remember the flood?

Things didn't go to well then for the evil.

a reply to: Murgatroid

I think the better question is why do we choose to do Evil?

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Murgatroid

I think the better question is why do we choose to do Evil?

Because it's all part of God's Plan. Right???

a reply to: mOjOm

Actually No. That was never part of God's plan for us. We deviated from His plan and He had to take on human form and die so that our mess would be cleaned up. Once again a short answer, but none of this was God's original plan he has chosen to conform his Plan to allow us to live with Him again, even though He didn't have to.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb

You still haven't given any explanation as to how a moral law can exist without a moral law giver.

There is no Moral Law outside the one's we've made for ourselves. Even the most seemingly obvious Moral Laws such as "No Murdering Your Own Kind" isn't one that is held by everyone. While most people generally understand that "Murder" isn't a good thing, there are some who don't.

No Universal Moral Law. No Universal Moral Law Giver.

If you disagree, then explain where this Moral Law and/or it's Giver can be found if it's not simply the person and their own moral laws they've made for themselves??