Ebola Patient in Atlanta Hospital

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: 00nunya00

I read about those students in another article. It said they were supposed to return or that the program ended July 10th. What I don't get is why they stayed so long after? Travel restrictions weren't in place for almost another two weeks.

Strange story.

I don't even know how to respond now. "Yeah, that's strange" is the safest reply I can make, apparently. Whatever. "Poor students, hope they get home soon." That's all I can say. :/

originally posted by: raymundoko
No you said an air gap, implying an airborne pathogen. Did you simply mean a gap? If so I've already said that several times making you post pointless...

a reply to: Krakatoa

I said air gap intentionally since, if a droplet travels 3 feet, then unless it is in a liquid medium, it is traversing an air gap. I never said airborne, that is you word here. What I said is accurate, and not "doom porn", sorry to disappoint you.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Moreover, remember the MIT study that droplets "less that 50 micrometers in size are often able to stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units". That changes area of spread dynamics tremendously.

a reply to: Seek_Truth
Thanks. I put the charts together because I wanted to better visualize how bad the outbreak is. Once I saw them, I knew others should see them too. The future projection chart really is terrifying. I hope that it is not really the way things will go. And I worry because I know it could become much worse.

a reply to: loam

I was getting there...
I want to accurately establish, and have agreement, that the Ebola virus (even one virus) can attach itself to a droplet of > 5 microns, and traverse an air-gap of 3 - 6 feet, remain virulent, and infect a recipient (given it lands in the appropriate place) without any direct physical contact from the Ebola victim.

Given an agreement in those statement, then we can intelligently discuss the further studies regarding distance of droplet based upon sizes. Then we combine this with the fact that the Ebola virus can remain virulent in either a wet or dry form for approx 21 days at the outside range. That would allow a potential situation where you could be infected by coming in close contact with the virus without ever knowing, or even seeing the original victim responsible.

a reply to: ikonoklast
I've actually asked Zaphod to take a look and give his thoughts. Hope he can. Thanks for yours. Interesting thought that there may also have been another refueling stop. As you can see, the Maine thing has been puzzling/troubling me a bit.

originally posted by: raymundoko
No you said an air gap, implying an airborne pathogen. Did you simply mean a gap? If so I've already said that several times making you post pointless...

a reply to: Krakatoa

Tell me how big of a gap you think it would take to transmit sufficient amounts of fluid to transmit the virus? And where exactly would that gap have to be for infection to occur? And how would sufficient amounts of fluid permeate that gap, when it is a hazmat suit? Let's stop dealing in hypotheticals. Tell me EXACTLY how a tiny tear in a suit would infect a doctor? Otherwise your posts are pointless.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: ikonoklast
I've actually asked Zaphod to take a look and give his thoughts. Hope he can. Thanks for yours.

You're welcome. Asking Zaphod sounds like a good idea to me, he know planes.

I just know that's down to about an eighth of a tank if you had maximum fuel, maximum reserves, and were getting the maximum mileage. That's a lot of if's. And that's also about when the low fuel light and a warning beep go on in my car. I wouldn't want to be out in the middle of nowhere with no gas station within 50 or 100 miles, let alone on a plane over the Atlantic ocean with an Ebola patient.

When did I say that wasn't the case? I've continued to say it can be spread by direct contact with bodily fluids. Ebola isn't in your breath. You don't just breath and put Ebola out there. It has to be fluids from the body. So someone would literally have to sneeze, cough blood/spit or vomit on you...

You're trying to make it seem like someone could breath in a 3-6 foot distance and catch Ebola. That isn't true.

a reply to: Krakatoa

As big a gap as it takes...the CDC says that is less than 3 feet. And a tear in a suit wouldn't matter unless fluids got in the tear.

a reply to: 00nunya00

originally posted by: raymundoko
When did I say that wasn't the case? I've continued to say it can be spread by direct contact with bodily fluids. Ebola isn't in your breath. You don't just breath and put Ebola out there. It has to be fluids from the body. So someone would literally have to sneeze, cough blood/spit or vomit on you...

You're trying to make it seem like someone could breath in a 3-6 foot distance and catch Ebola. That isn't true.

a reply to: Krakatoa

So how are these fluids transferred via this "mystery undetected gap" in a hazmat suit? How does THAT infection occur? Hazmat suits are the safest thing possible, hence your insistence that hazmat suits are sufficient for transport of victims in open air. So how does fluid get inside these suits in any significant manner with KNOWN ebola patients in order to infect 100+ medical professionals? Surely they know what they're doing, same as the CDC. How is this different?

originally posted by: raymundoko
When did I say that wasn't the case? I've continued to say it can be spread by direct contact with bodily fluids. Ebola isn't in your breath. You don't just breath and put Ebola out there. It has to be fluids from the body. So someone would literally have to sneeze, cough blood/spit or vomit on you...

You're trying to make it seem like someone could breath in a 3-6 foot distance and catch Ebola. That isn't true.

a reply to: Krakatoa

I am NOT saying that at all. Please, show me where I made that statement....go ahead, I'll wait. I said, and I will continue to say, that an infected droplet can traverse an air-gap f 3-6 feet, and has the potential to infect another person. No matter how you attempt to twist my words. It is you that does not have the intestinal fortitude to admit my statements are 100% accurate....and not based upon "doom porn".

originally posted by: raymundoko
As big a gap as it takes...the CDC says that is less than 3 feet. And a tear in a suit wouldn't matter unless fluids got in the tear.

a reply to: 00nunya00

Nope, not good enough. Please post CDC links that show how a tiny tear can compromise a person in a hazmat suit. Otherwise, you admit it can be transferred outside the suit without anyone knowing it, and must concede the point that this is dangerous.

And I quote from you:

"You don't just breath [sic] and put Ebola out there. It has to be fluids from the body. So someone would literally have to sneeze, cough blood/spit or vomit on you..."

Explain that happening in a hazmat suit with a tiny undetectable tear.

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Krakatoa

Moreover, remember the MIT study that droplets "less that 50 micrometers in size are often able to stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units". That changes area of spread dynamics tremendously.

Are you freaking kidding me?

Are you honestly suggesting that Ebola can be spread through air ventilation systems?????

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Krakatoa

Moreover, remember the MIT study that droplets "less that 50 micrometers in size are often able to stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units". That changes area of spread dynamics tremendously.

Are you freaking kidding me?

Are you honestly suggesting that Ebola can be spread through air ventilation systems?????

Then how did 100+ medical professionals get it in hazmat suits? We are all waiting for the answer.

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Krakatoa

Moreover, remember the MIT study that droplets "less that 50 micrometers in size are often able to stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units". That changes area of spread dynamics tremendously.

Are you freaking kidding me?

Are you honestly suggesting that Ebola can be spread through air ventilation systems?????

Nobody made that statement, now did they? All that was stated was that recent studies from MIT (that;s the Massachusetts Institute of Technology) have shown that droplets less than 50 microns in size can stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units. Now, hypothetically, if one (or more) of those droplets are carrying one (or more) Ebola virus', then logically, the virus would travel as far as the droplet upon which it rides.

And, coupled with the fact that the Ebola virus has been shown to survive and still be virulent in wet or dried forms for up to 21 days on a surface, indicates a possibility that the infection radius can be larger than the established norms.

Does anyone here know the micron rating for the filter in the hazmat suits in use in this particular case? If, theoretically, the filter is > 50 microns, then perhaps that is the breach vector into the suit.

I’m the head nurse at Emory. This is why we wanted to bring the Ebola patients to the U.S.These patients will benefit -- not threaten -- the country.

source
Susan Mitchell Grant, RN, is chief nurse for Emory Healthcare

Sorry if this has already been shared here. Trying to catch up.

a reply to: Krakatoa

I'm following you on this. Let's clarify even a bit more:

On the size of a single Ebola.

Filamentous 970 nm long for Ebolavirus. Diameter is about 80nm. Negative-stranded RNA linear genome, about 18-19 kb in size. Encodes for seven proteins.

Source.

How big is a nm (nanometer)? 1000 nm = 1 micron, so a nm is about .001 microns. Ebola is about 1 micron long, almost. That scale is pretty hard to comprehend, so let's add in a visual reference.



So we are dealing with very small scales, and a >5 micron particle is capable of giving Ebola a ride, where it can sit inert for up to 21 days.

A sneeze can be anywhere from 74 microns to 360 microns. Averaged from this study.

This work focuses on the size distribution of sneeze droplets exhaled immediately at mouth. Twenty healthy subjects participated in the experiment and 44 sneezes were measured by using a laser particle size analyser.

Wipe your runny nose, touch a doorknob, and the next person along catches it. Sneeze, same thing. There are too many places Ebola can live undetected. I'm not saying Ebola makes you sneeze. Dust can do that, ground pepper can do that, and it's quite normal to sneeze. We do it all the time. I'm not saying Ebola is airborne, either, but what I am saying is, it doesn't have to be. The danger of spreading is still there.

It'll only take one symptomatic person, in a public place, to spread it to others.

a reply to: Krakatoa

There was something earlier in this thread about the biohazard suits worn. I'll see if I can find it.