Ebola Patient in Atlanta Hospital

Read their bios...they usually caught it while they weren't fully protected...

a reply to: 00nunya00

originally posted by: raymundoko
Read their bios...they usually caught it while they weren't fully protected...

a reply to: 00nunya00

Link please to their bios? You obviously have it at hand. Otherwise, we can't take your claim seriously.

originally posted by: raymundoko
Because they aren't always in hazmat suits when they are exposed, in fact they usually aren't. Read some of the bios of people who caught it...only had on a mask, didn't know someone had it etc etc.

a reply to: 00nunya00

Why would they need a hazmat suit if it's not airborne? :-/

If they didn't know they had it, then they must have been contagious before the bad boy symptoms show.

Please post some of those Bio's etc etc that you are referring to.

originally posted by: 00nunya00

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Krakatoa

Moreover, remember the MIT study that droplets "less that 50 micrometers in size are often able to stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units". That changes area of spread dynamics tremendously.

Are you freaking kidding me?

Are you honestly suggesting that Ebola can be spread through air ventilation systems?????

Then how did 100+ medical professionals get it in hazmat suits? We are all waiting for the answer.

Magic.

I honestly think that is the answer you want to hear.

Seriously though, from what I have heard from reports is that they could have been infected multiple ways.

One is by taking off their suits, they are over there in tents...their clean rooms aren't that clean and their decontamination rooms aren't that great either. So you put on the suit, you go treat patients...then you have to take the suit off and may expose yourself doing so.

The other method I heard is that their clean room was contaminated by another colleague. So they are touching surfaces they think are clean which really aren't.

I'll tell you one thing though...they didn't get it via airborne transmission. Think about it, the suits they have on protect them from airborne transmission as well. So even if it was airborne, which it isn't, how they got infected while wearing suits would still be a mystery and still probably be from one of the two above methods.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Nobody made that statement, now did they?

Really...well let's see your next few sentences.

All that was stated was that recent studies from MIT (that;s the Massachusetts Institute of Technology) have shown that droplets less than 50 microns in size can stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units. Now, hypothetically, if one (or more) of those droplets are carrying one (or more) Ebola virus', then logically, the virus would travel as far as the droplet upon which it rides.

Yep...you just re-stated it.


You guys should really call the CDC, you have it all figured out. Call them up and tell them Ebola is fully airborne and will spread through ventilation systems. Let us know how far you get with that.

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: 00nunya00

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Krakatoa

Moreover, remember the MIT study that droplets "less that 50 micrometers in size are often able to stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units". That changes area of spread dynamics tremendously.

Are you freaking kidding me?

Are you honestly suggesting that Ebola can be spread through air ventilation systems?????

Then how did 100+ medical professionals get it in hazmat suits? We are all waiting for the answer.

Magic.

I honestly think that is the answer you want to hear.

Seriously though, from what I have heard from reports is that they could have been infected multiple ways.

One is by taking off their suits, they are over there in tents...their clean rooms aren't that clean and their decontamination rooms aren't that great either. So you put on the suit, you go treat patients...then you have to take the suit off and may expose yourself doing so.

The other method I heard is that their clean room was contaminated by another colleague. So they are touching surfaces they think are clean which really aren't.

I'll tell you one thing though...they didn't get it via airborne transmission. Think about it, the suits they have on protect them from airborne transmission as well. So even if it was airborne, which it isn't, how they got infected while wearing suits would still be a mystery and still probably be from one of the two above methods.

Please post 100% proven links to studies of how they got this disease, otherwise, your "opinion" and "ideas" are just baseless speculation. Please provide scientific proof.

ETA: and DO NOT cite studies that show a mode of transmission is "possible", please provide a scientific study of how THESE professionals got this virus, with 100% certainty. Thanks.

originally posted by: raymundoko
Because they aren't always in hazmat suits when they are exposed, in fact they usually aren't. Read some of the bios of people who caught it...only had on a mask, didn't know someone had it etc etc.

a reply to: 00nunya00

Yes, please post links to the bios of the docs here. I would love to read them....seriously. It would be a valuable contribution to the thread discussion.

a reply to: 00nunya00

Please post 100% proven links to studies of how they got this disease, otherwise, your "opinion" and "ideas" are just baseless speculation. Please provide scientific proof.

To say they got it through the agreed upon transmission route for this disease is not speculation.

To say that Ebola is not airborne and can even get through hazmat suits is speculation.

The suits are to protect them from droplets...

Vomit, sneezing, coughing, diarreah, blood etc...a mask alone can't block that.

a reply to: MrLimpet

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: 00nunya00

Please post 100% proven links to studies of how they got this disease, otherwise, your "opinion" and "ideas" are just baseless speculation. Please provide scientific proof.

To say they got it through the agreed upon transmission route for this disease is not speculation.

To say that Ebola is not airborne and can even get through hazmat suits is speculation.

Can you provide a 100% certain scientific study of how THESE professionals got it? If not, it's baseless speculation on your part. Please only contribute 100% PROVEN facts, no "strongly suggested" or "possible" methods. Thanks.

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: Krakatoa

Nobody made that statement, now did they?

Really...well let's see your next few sentences.

All that was stated was that recent studies from MIT (that;s the Massachusetts Institute of Technology) have shown that droplets less than 50 microns in size can stay airborne long enough to enter ceiling ventilation units. Now, hypothetically, if one (or more) of those droplets are carrying one (or more) Ebola virus', then logically, the virus would travel as far as the droplet upon which it rides.

Yep...you just re-stated it.
You guys should really call the CDC, you have it all figured out. Call them up and tell them Ebola is fully airborne and will spread through ventilation systems. Let us know how far you get with that.

Now you are just being obstinate and condescending. Can we keep this on a level above personal attacks please? IT was the MIT study being referenced here. Do you have a study that contradicts that study on the distance a droplet can potentially travel that is on-par with the qualified folks over at MIT (even students there are typically more qualified than most, or they would not be there)? Please post a contrary study that is recent....anything.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: wishes

One thing, it isn't airborne...you can't use that term when referring to a pathogen. Airborne means you breath it out and its there and then floats around and finds a host.

Ebola can't attach itself to a less than 5 micron droplet because the smallest droplets that leave the body are from sneezing and are, as posted earlier, over 50 microns in size mainly ranging from 74-200+.

Thank you for the response. With respect to 'air born' I believe this is one of the misunderstood words being used and therefor causing problems. Most people consider air born meaning something that travels in the air, like breath. But by definition being air born is being in the air and off the ground. We are air born every time we jump off the ground albeit for only a moment. A sneeze carrying Ebola makes Ebola air born for those moments even though the Ebola is not leaving by its own volition, it is being carried.

www.merriam-webster.com...:

Full Definition of AIRBORNE
1 : done or being in the air : being off the ground: as a : carried through the air (as by an aircraft) b : supported especially by aerodynamic forces or propelled through the air by force c : transported or carried by the air

Does this not mean that "technically" Ebola can be considered air born "when" it is carried by something like a sneeze or gushing blood?

And I find it comforting Ebola can't attach itself to less than 5 micron droplets, thank you :-)

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It is NOT fair to those who read and post to ATS to have to have this serious topic derailed.

You are responsible for your own posts.

There were at least FOUR warnings in the last day or two about derailing the topic.
They seem to be ignored.
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a reply to: 00nunya00

Can you provide a 100% certain scientific study of how THESE professionals got it? If not, it's baseless speculation on your part. Please only contribute 100% PROVEN facts, no "strongly suggested" or "possible" methods. Thanks.

The guy who is claiming Ebola is now airborne wants 100% proven facts...lol.

Sorry, it's call common sense. The modes of transmission for Ebola are well known, you don't need a study to prove how every person contracts it when there have already been studies done to show how it is transmitted.

So when we are stating known facts, we don't need a study for each individual case. When you are stating that Ebola is now airborne, which goes against all scientific known facts at the time, then you need to show some proof.

But I guess if speculation is what you love to do...then let's just say the two Americans contracted Ebola because Ebola has mutated to transmit to humans through light rays...and they looked at a sick patient and were infected through their eyes.

That ridiculous theory has just as much basis as the "airborne" theory you so want to be true.

Dr. Sheik Humarr Khan, I'm on a phone and it won't let me paste, but it's easy enough to google. He was working 12 hours a day 7 days a week and accidentally exposed himself go an early symptomatic carrier.

a reply to: Krakatoa

originally posted by: raymundoko
A sneeze is micrometers, not nanometers...you read it wrong.

a reply to: Druid42

Right you are, and I edited my post. 1 micrometer = 1 micron. The transport of Ebola is on a particle > 5 microns, so it's quite capable of riding a sneeze.

Here's the metric scale for future reference:

a reply to: wishes

Does this not mean that "technically" Ebola can be considered air born "when" it is carried by something like a sneeze or gushing blood?

No, because there is a very specific medical definition of airborne transmission...and Ebola does not qualify for it.

That would be like saying HIV is airborne because someone could cough blood into someone's mouth and infect them "through the air".

Ebola, these strains and at this time, is simple not airborne, it's just not....there is nothing else to say about it...it is not airborne....period...done....end.

No, the medical definition of airborne is completely different that the standard definition of airborne.

a reply to: wishes

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: 00nunya00

Can you provide a 100% certain scientific study of how THESE professionals got it? If not, it's baseless speculation on your part. Please only contribute 100% PROVEN facts, no "strongly suggested" or "possible" methods. Thanks.

The guy who is claiming Ebola is now airborne wants 100% proven facts...lol.

Sorry, it's call common sense. The modes of transmission for Ebola are well known, you don't need a study to prove how every person contracts it when there have already been studies done to show how it is transmitted.

So when we are stating known facts, we don't need a study for each individual case. When you are stating that Ebola is now airborne, which goes against all scientific known facts at the time, then you need to show some proof.

But I guess if speculation is what you love to do...then let's just say the two Americans contracted Ebola because Ebola has mutated to transmit to humans through light rays...and they looked at a sick patient and were infected through their eyes.

That ridiculous theory has just as much basis as the "airborne" theory you so want to be true.

Can you provide a 100% certain scientific study of how these professionals contracted this disease? If not, it's still up for debate. Thanks.

originally posted by: raymundoko
Dr. Sheik Humarr Khan, I'm on a phone and it won't let me paste, but it's easy enough to google. He was working 12 hours a day 7 days a week and accidentally exposed himself go an early symptomatic carrier.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Please provide your links for us, plus a study of his findings that support your thesis in this ebola outbreak. Thanks.