Who wrote the Torah?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: undo

OK. So it's not just about black holes, it is about black holes that turn into quasars? Makes sense. Let me guess, they are also wormholes and portals to other dimensions where the Cheshire Cat lives? Sorry for being an arse here, but I have a hard time seeing how black holes relate to linguistics, that's all.

it's in the ancient texts, is what i'm saying. in fact, if you look at a video of hajj, it looks like the original idea of the hajj at the kaba, was trying to depict it. the circle inward towards a central black cube. it's kinda freaky if you think about it. whoever made up hajj, thousands of years ago, knew something about the galaxy that most people never even suspected until recently.

in enoch's text, there are stars caught in the gravity well of a black hole. when enoch inquires about it, he's told that they disobeyed the laws of god by not rising in a timely fashion and so were sentenced to be in the "prison house for the stars". what that's saying is: because their orbits decayed/changed they go too close and were caught in the gravity well of the black hole. the laws of god they disobeyed are things orbital mechanics. lol it's amazing, really.

you had mentioned earlier that the texts were brilliant. yes they are, very brilliant.

a reply to: zardust

As far as I'm concerned the Menorah illustrates Hebrew verb formation and the diagram of the seven binyanim ==> en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

OK I'd be interested to see how you got there.

I don't doubt there are multiple layers to the symbolism of the texts. So I don't think its an either or. But part of PARdeS. For me, I find life in the Sod. But we all connect with different levels.

a reply to: zardust

Seven lamps from the beginning of Revelation, I see them as the Menorah. The Word of God moves between and among them. I also see the seven lights as the seven moving stars visible to the eye, Sun and Moon included. But in particular, the structure of Hebrew verb formation is about when Hebrew language turns into magic and mystery and gets very profound and, well difficult is one word, bloody impossible is couple more, and it is typically quite essential when trying to understand or decipher books like the Sefer Yetzirah and the Zohar, and I just can't seem to get any sense out of it yet. Hey, I still struggle with distinguishing between the letters and recognise sounds and words, but I'm getting there.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

OK

I'd be interested to see how you got there.

I don't doubt there are multiple layers to the symbolism of the texts. So I don't think its an either or. But part of PARdeS. For me, I find life in the Sod. But we all connect with different levels.

Care to explain the abbreviations or acronyms you use here. You lost me here I'm afraid.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

OK

I'd be interested to see how you got there.

I don't doubt there are multiple layers to the symbolism of the texts. So I don't think its an either or. But part of PARdeS. For me, I find life in the Sod. But we all connect with different levels.

Care to explain the abbreviations or acronyms you use here. You lost me here I'm afraid.

He's referring to the four layers of scriptural interpretation in the Jewish tradition. Here's a link to an article about it, just found it with a google search didn't even really look at it much so not 100% how good it is, but it at least has the basic information.

rabbimichaelsamuel.com...

Parades is an acronym for that. Sod refers to 'hidden' mystical meaning in scripture, where a given verse may have an apparent meaning, but with a certain way of looking at it can also allude to some mystical concept. This is often done by isolating a particular word, phrase, or verse, and when looked at it that way you could see it as having those deeper meanings.

a reply to: TheJourney

Oh dear another concept of midrash. Remember years ago when I first started looking into religion, there was lots of talk about an oral Torah, a specific way to understand or reorganise the words in order to extract the name of God or get some kind of profound insight, and how the assassination of Rabin was described in detail and foretold by some rabbi by applying alternate hyphenation or dividing the sentences differently revealing new words and new meanings, and then came Michael Drosnin with his ELS graphs and tables, and of course there is the Talmud and the Kabalah.…

True, there are genuine paths to understand the fundamental concepts of the Hebrew language and extract all kinds of esotheric soma from between the lines of the Torah, but all in all, the Torah is a book containing detailed, often moralistic and private laws and directions for purging all kinds of things considered unclean, a set of ceremonial orders seasoned with a questionable historical foundation for the order to conquer Canaan making out Israel's divine claim or right to inhabit the Land.

However, apart from that, I'd like to break in that Genesis is a gem of sorts! A most remarkable book. I can't imagine the world existing without that book in it. Spark of Heaven

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: TheJourney

Oh dear another concept of midrash. Remember years ago when I first started looking into religion, there was lots of talk about an oral Torah, a specific way to understand or reorganise the words in order to extract the name of God or get some kind of profound insight, and how the assassination of Rabin was described in detail and foretold by some rabbi by applying alternate hyphenation or dividing the sentences differently revealing new words and new meanings, and then came Michael Drosnin with his ELS graphs and tables, and of course there is the Talmud and the Kabalah.…

True, there are genuine paths to understand the fundamental concepts of the Hebrew language and extract all kinds of esotheric soma from between the lines of the Torah, but all in all, the Torah is a book containing detailed, often moralistic and private laws and directions for purging all kinds of things considered unclean, a set of ceremonial orders seasoned with a questionable historical foundation for the order to conquer Canaan making out Israel's divine claim or right to inhabit the Land.

However, apart from that, I'd like to break in that Genesis is a gem of sorts! A most remarkable book. I can't imagine the world existing without that book in it. Spark of Heaven

I've developed a certain detachment to the 'actual' validity of religious scripture, seeing it as a sort of means to inspire things in the individual's mind. In a way a canvas for the mind to place meaning onto, but in another way being formed by it, in an interactive process. And I think that is really the idea behind these 'mystical' interpretations of scripture. Developing your understanding of deeper spiritual truths, and seeing them in a greater and greater range of things. I mean, when I study a scripture, or anything spiritual really, I try to get into a mindset of 'as if it were true.' Not taking any particular ideology you glean too seriously, yet at the same time getting into it 'as if serious,' trying it on so to speak.

Not sure if I'm rambling off topic here. Just something that your post brought to mind. If you're someone who looks deeply into things, reality or spirituality, you sort of develop signposts in your mind for what you are looking for. And then if you look without, or within for that matter, and find something to inspire that, you use it as a sort of jump start. Or at least that is how I have been feeling for some time.

a reply to: TheJourney

Sounds like a valid approach to me. Keeping an open or receiving mind when reading books like the Prophecies of Hermes or the Rig Veda or the Bible for that matter is essential in order to extract the mystical nectars these books either boast or serve in secret, and ever so often there are layers to the texts, higher and deeper. In extreme cases you have Dark Age grimmoria and documents like the Voynich Manuscript, where you first even may have to learn a new, perhaps even unknown language in order to get any sense at all from off the pages. So yes, keeping an open mind, if only as long as you're reading, is a good thing. Quite essencial even.

ETA: Then again, I should leave with a warning, for certain books of this kind can mess up ones head quite a bit if you don't know how to detach properly. I always struggled with that. Revelation is a good example. Aforementioned Grimmorium another. These books can possess the reader and turn their lives into nightmares.

a reply to: undo

Well God knows everything about the Universe apparently, and yes, scattered across the globes are strange buildings and objects displaying higher knowledge of some kind, and it's amazing. A quazar may leave a black hole, even one big enough to sustain a galaxy for the debris after the quasar explosion. But where on earth does the cube come in? The cube isn't something you see in nature much. Computer graphics isn't always accurate. And we know very little about quasars and black holes. As far as I know, we haven't even been able to study them at all, let alone see any.

a reply to: TheJourney

Well stated sir.

The letter kills but the spirit gives life. This is what I am doing is searching for the signposts that point me to the kingdom. These things are not the reality but a map or a light that when powered on illuminates the darkness. But only when the power is on. That is when it becomes alive in me. I see these all around.

a reply to: zardust

To elaborate a little on what I mentioned about reorganising the text of the Torah. Way back in time when the Torah first surfaced, it was written as a literal wall of text, in one body, letter by letter, syllable by syllable without hyphenation or diacritics, vowels or punctuation of any sort. Now, reading the book without guidance and some form of midrash or commentary would be a challenge, you would atleast need some kind of doctrine or a set of rules to explain the things that I refer to and make way for the Truth, leaving no stone unturned. Although 'challenge' is quite the understatement.

For when you read a text without spaces between the words and only contain consonants and no commas or periods, question marks or quotes-- well, all of a sudden new words form in between the others and sometimes you can put them together to make sense of it. Like what happened when Rabin was assassinated. Apparently it happened exactly as the Torah had prophesied. I can't remember exactly where other than that it was in Genesis somewhere.

On a sidenote. The mentioning of this assassination in the book by Michael Drosnin 'The Torah Code' was more of a questionable spin-off, off the one where some Chasid rabbi found this code in his Torah, it's not the same story, I even doubt Drosnin was being fully truthful. I'm not talking about advanced typographic acrossticons or ELS, but what I call phantomens and ghosticons or serpent-lingo, a kind of ghost words that e[ver so] [of][ten] sne[ak in] [bet][we]en the words people speak or write if you catch the drift. It could be lexical words, or identically sounding words, like phonetic or oral as in the case of the poor horse and it's friend, the quick fox.


ETA: There should be a disclaimer screaming loudly that many a man has fallen off their horses or cloud nine upon approaching Caesar, or in attempts at running away from their demons without turning in to one of them, or ending up on some blind crusade of misery and eversoclever nonsense. This is the land of sharp sticks and silver bullets, oaths and well the land of lesser gods and ancient beasts. So tread lightly. And feed the cat first. Pack a cross and some holywater and get ready for the possibility that you at some point would have to knock on church doors with five dead chickens to ward off some mean medieval Goat of Mendes. Keeping an open mind can be a challenge. Many poor sods in the trail of zombies who didn't take no for an answer believing they own the world.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
They are written in very different styles and in several different dialects and languages ranging from Chaldean, Hebrew and Aramaic, in dialects spanning a whole world and along the coarse of history.

Quite so.
I suggest the possibility that this is how God brought the Bible into existence, through the process you describe.

All agreed. Moses calls himself "I AM" to Moses, as in 'to be'. As a side track, 'to be' read as "tobe" it's identical to the Hebrew word for Good in relation to the fruit Adam ate, and in Norwegian Good is written God and God is written Gud sounding like Goode. In neutrum No. 'God' becomes 'Godt' sounding exactly like German 'Gott', God again.

To get back to the first part of this post, 'To be', existence, consciousness. God is apparently a living God, who cannot die but stays alive as the generations pass and the empires wither into dust, God was the God of Abraham, but also the God of King David, and they both left their marks in the Bible. In some respect there is a certain dignity or neutrality in how he inspired men to write about their dead, and of great plots. Like how to conquer land or set off a slave rebellion. How to turn old religions into language and in turn make the ones using it into fiery serpents or avenging angels. The Torah and Genisis in particular, is so much more than a simple story inspired by God or given to Moses on Mt. Sinai. Or Mt. Horeb, "depending on the source".

The "pentadocs" were originally intended to be studied by initiate priests, prophets and kings, the children of God. It contains a spark of Heaven's and is a book we will probably carry with us to distant stars one day, perhaps written in a yet unspoken language under foreign skies and under an array of completely different stars... it's that kind of book.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
They are written in very different styles and in several different dialects and languages ranging from Chaldean, Hebrew and Aramaic, in dialects spanning a whole world and along the coarse of history.

Quite so.
I suggest the possibility that this is how God brought the Bible into existence, through the process you describe.

All agreed. Moses calls himself "I AM" to Moses

Though that would be an interesting approach as for the question of the Torah's authorship, what I meant was naturally more along the lines of -- God calls himself "I AM" to Moses -- and so on. Hehe. A "pilgrim's slip". Could have been worse I suppose.

no, he's saying he's hayah (h-ayah (ea (enki))
is moses saying he's iah (as in ea/hayah)? quite possibly, or he could be saying that iah/ea is speaking thru him. however, if you examine the rest of the statement, it seems more is going on there than meets the eye.

i'm still mulling over the asher part.
there's an ea on each side with asher in the middle. this would suggest something deeper than moses talking about himself, exclusively.

originally posted by: undo
no, he's saying he's hayah (h-ayah (ea (enki))
is moses saying he's iah (as in ea/hayah)? quite possibly, or he could be saying that iah/ea is speaking thru him. however, if you examine the rest of the statement, it seems more is going on there than meets the eye.

i'm still mulling over the asher part.
there's an ea on each side with asher in the middle. this would suggest something deeper than moses talking about himself, exclusively.

Ah, Yah, sure it's not simply Hebrew and it says ah-jah as in Jahveh, revealing the vocalisation of the Tetragrammathon? AHJH or in Hebrew אהיה one of seven forms of the root HJH or היה.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: undo
no, he's saying he's hayah (h-ayah (ea (enki))
is moses saying he's iah (as in ea/hayah)? quite possibly, or he could be saying that iah/ea is speaking thru him. however, if you examine the rest of the statement, it seems more is going on there than meets the eye.

i'm still mulling over the asher part.
there's an ea on each side with asher in the middle. this would suggest something deeper than moses talking about himself, exclusively.

Ah, Yah, sure it's not simply Hebrew and it says ah-jah as in Jahveh, revealing the vocalisation of the Tetragrammathon? AHJH or in Hebrew אהיה one of seven forms of the root HJH or היה.

yah. jah. same thing

here ya go. click the little strongs numbers after the words

I am that I am

a reply to: undo

There may be a link between Heb. Jah and Sum. Ea, there may also be a link between Huhu and יהוה, and there is a devil in Ye-Zeus, and another in A-Bel; it's all interconnected, but we're talking about mere syllables here and conflicting traditions. But the Good LORD does say:

“Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel my inheritance.”

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

“Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel my inheritance.”

there we go.