Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

a reply to: neo96

$15 effing dollars an hour for cleaning a toilet, pushing a broom,flipping burgers, or bagging groceries, etc.

Bosses could always do these things themselves if they don't want to pay someone.

The thing is, it IS worth it to them, because they're too clever and educated to do it themselves. These things NEED to be done to run a profitable business, because customers wont come if there's a scruffy toilet and filthy restaurant area or flip their own burgers. No customers = closed business.

And busy supermarket customers like having their shopping packed for them, it keeps them coming back, and it also gets them whizzing through the checkouts faster. Owners know it's profitable for business or they wouldn't provide this service, they don't create these jobs as a favour to the employee or to the customer. Everything they do is for maximum profit only, no other reason.

They can afford to pay more, they just don't want to.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: doobydoll

At least those whom will have a job will no longer be 'working poor', they'll be off benefits, and supporting themselves, and paying taxes - like it should be.

Hate to burst that bubble BUT :

Between the employers matching employees social security contributions, their medicare contributions, the increase 'wage' for employees unemployment 'insurance.

Then take that cash away because of the INCREASE income taxes between the state, and the feds.

Then the increase for food, the increase for gas, plus that thing called inflation.

WOO HOO!

Got a raise, and they won't see a GD penny of it.

How come giving an increase to the lowest paid workers will raise living costs? How come it doesn't raise everyone's costs of living whenever higher paid workers get a raise?

a reply to: doobydoll

most mcdonalds bathrooms are filthy, yet people keep coming back.

And I shop at Aldis where you bag your own groceries, and the cashiers make over minimum wage.

These laws might help the economy but 15/hr is still not a living wage for a family, especially in a big city like Seattle.

originally posted by: doobydoll
How come it doesn't raise everyone's costs of living whenever higher paid workers get a raise?

Same reason that climate change isn't dependent on volcanoes.

One is a natural phenomenon that has built in checks and balances (employee above min). One is a forced modification (min wage).

It is very easy blaming low-wage workers for the state of the economy. Raising the minimum wage will, without a doubt, cause the price of every day items to increase, but low-wage workers are not to blame.

Our economy has been reaping the benefits of having a huge number of low-wage workers, struggling to survive. These people making less than a living wage are the once who are ensuring you can buy your cheeseburgers for a low price. Every dollar you save buy buying cheap food made by underpaid workers is a dollar worth of food taken from the mouth of those workers and their families.

Raising the minimum wage to a living wage does not cause prices to increase beyond the correct price, but instead causes those prices to increase to where the truly should be. The high prices everyone is scared of are nothing more than a reflection of the true inflation of the dollar.

If you want to blame anybody, blame the Government and the Fed for flushing our currency down the toilet, making it all but worthless. Just stop blaming people who want to make enough money to survive for making you spend another dollar or two on your super sized double cheeseburger meal with a diet coke.

DC

a reply to: doobydoll

The thing is, it IS worth it to them, because they're too clever and educated to do it themselves. These things NEED to be done to run a profitable business, because customers wont come if there's a scruffy toilet and filthy restaurant area or flip their own burgers. No customers = closed business.

What is really amazing the current generation thinks themselves to be so damn special.

Hell today they make more than their parents did, and more than their grandparents did.

Point of fact Americans of today are BETTER PAID than any past generation.

But apparently that ain't good enough.

They need more MONEY!

Bunch of greedy people I think.

Of course minimum wage jobs are not for adults to begin with.

The last time I worked a minimum wage I was 16.

Then I grew up.

Which is what a lot of people need to do these days.

And for the record 'WAGE" isn't even the GD problem to begin with.

Since money in this country is fiat, and has been printed out of thin air.

The solution isn't using FORCE, using FASCISM to get their way.

'Hey I need more money to 'live on' which is BS.

They need to be effing honest, and say the need more money so they can go out and buy more stuff.

And they are using government to make them evil corporations 'richer'.

Ain't that great?

a reply to: doobydoll

doobydoll,

I just wanted to add this for a general clarification:

The question should never be, "what should minimum wage be set at to cover basic cost of living?", but instead, "how do we reduce the cost of living so that the lowest earners can live?"

I know this seems like semantics, but if you follow those questions through, you will find that you come to very different overall outcomes.

a reply to: doobydoll

How come giving an increase to the lowest paid workers will raise living costs?

1. Because the largest employers in this country is small business owners that are franchise operators.

Wage increases take money out of that small business owners pocket.

That is after paying for the real estate, the electric bills, the equipment it costs to run a business, then those business owners are shelling out money for things like :

Half of the employees SS contributions.
Half of the employees medicare contributions.
All of the employees workmans comp insurance.
All of the employees unemployment insurance.

Then has to keep shelling out more cash because the cost of doing business buying the products they sell.

And everything else.

But hey who gives a eff.

I want my $15 and hour!

The people who support that asinine thought NEVER RAN A BUSINESS before.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: doobydoll

How come giving an increase to the lowest paid workers will raise living costs?

1. Because the largest employers in this country is small business owners that are franchise operators.

Wage increases take money out of that small business owners pocket.

That is after paying for the real estate, the electric bills, the equipment it costs to run a business, then those business owners are shelling out money for things like :

Half of the employees SS contributions.
Half of the employees medicare contributions.
All of the employees workmans comp insurance.
All of the employees unemployment insurance.

Then has to keep shelling out more cash because the cost of doing business buying the products they sell.

And everything else.

But hey who gives a eff.

I want my $15 and hour!

The people who support that asinine thought NEVER RAN A BUSINESS before.

It wouldn't take anything out of his pocket if he raises the price of his burgers 50p.

And don't say people won't pay it because they will. Fast food places have been raising their prices every year since Ben Hur was born, and they're still always busy.

The cost of living rises every year despite minimum wage earners not getting an increase, so how is it their fault? If minimum pay increases are responsible for rising living costs, how come costs are still rising but minimum pay never has?

If the costs of living depends on how much minimum pay is set at, and said minimum pay has stayed the same, how come those costs haven't stayed the same?

a reply to: doobydoll

It wouldn't take anything out of his pocket if he raises the price of his burgers 50p.

Yeah it does.

Because day by day, year by year it is costing American business owners more money to keep their doors open.

And that evil 'profit' is the ONLY thing keep a business open.

When it costs more to pay employees than it costs to keep the doors open.

Stick a fork in it

It's over.

Most people are prolly like me anyways.

When they eat 'fast food' they usually go to cheaper places.

Which means that increased cost on that burger the business owner doesn't 'realiize' because people are going elsewhere.

yeah... if the minimum wage is increased 3X--- from $5 to $15 per hour
it only stands to reason that the $1 menu of items will only cost $3 per item --- right ?

It Don't work that way Number-Crunchers
That's the crap that Obama & company try to foist on the voters...


what needs done is reducing the extreme pay difference between the actual workers and the Elites that command something in excess of 300X the pay of the average worker

all a minimum wage increase does is temporarily cut that gap in compensation from 300X to only 200X the average wage of the working slaves

wage & price controls are NOT true capitalism...
but Tyranny & Fascism is not Democracy either

we must blend a hybrid system which is equitable for every-one

When I first heard about this, the first thing that came to mind is stupidity on the part of everyone who bought into it, from the elected officials to the people who put them in office.

Seattle is going to be watched. Make no mistake; it is going to be watched, providing that this law survives the legal challenges. So for the next few years, it is going to be going through the courts, and the first action that is going to be argued over, is on the stay. If those against this law can make the legal arguments, then a judge will agree and put a stay on the law. And those who voted for this law will have to survive the voting public as they could end up losing in the long run. And it will take at least a year or 2 for it to work its way through the court system to make it up to the US Supreme Court. And even then that court case will set a legal precedent that could affect the entire country, as that decision will be used time and time again in all similar court cases.
Another detail and this one is never discussed or mentioned, and it bears to mention here. All of those people who this law will benefit, they are going to get the biggest shock of all. This is not going to be the win fall that they think it is going to be, but is going to work against them when it comes to the federal income tax. The more you make, the more the federal government is going to take, and it moves all of these people into another income tax bracket. Those who were getting public assistance, could very well see the loss of said assistance.

But let’s go back to the city and how the businesses will be affected. Make no mistake there is going to be a ripple. Those that can feasibly raise the rate of pay, will, and have little if any effect on their running. However, for the rest, they will have 2 choices. The first is to keep running and start raising their rates of pay. The other, is going to be a bit more harder, and that is they may decide to either reduce down their work force, and thus have a staff that is now expected to do more work, for the greater pay, raise the cost of goods and services, or ultimately, just shut the doors and move elsewhere, to where they are not affected by this law.

The reality is that the politicians took a gamble on this law, in hopes that it will be a big win, risking everything. While it may seem like a good idea, the question should be is it worth the risk. As I stated the country is now watching to see what happened, like it did when both Washington and Colorado legalized pot. If it fails, the damage will be far greater than the city can handle, with the current people in office having committed political suicide, and ending their carreer’s with a large unemployed population in a far worse spot, and killing this for the entire country at large. Or it could be a big win, which propels the politicians into higher offices, and forcing the rest of the country to pass similar bills.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: doobydoll

It wouldn't take anything out of his pocket if he raises the price of his burgers 50p.

Yeah it does.

Because day by day, year by year it is costing American business owners more money to keep their doors open.

And that evil 'profit' is the ONLY thing keep a business open.

When it costs more to pay employees than it costs to keep the doors open.

Stick a fork in it

It's over.

Most people are prolly like me anyways.

When they eat 'fast food' they usually go to cheaper places.

Which means that increased cost on that burger the business owner doesn't 'realiize' because people are going elsewhere.

There is another reason for rising business and living costs, it's obviously not due to raising minimum pay because that hasn't happened. So find the reason and blame that for rising day to day costs.

Not everyone is like you, you'd be surprised how many people still prefer to visit the 'big' fast food names than 'cheaper' ones. They always have a moan about a price rise but they're still prepared to pay it, and they keep coming back. These places put their prices up every year, and they're still always full of customers.

Pay them a decent wage so they can get off benefits and support themselves and contribute taxes, then you can all stop moaning that they're scrounging off the taxpayer.

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: RobertDeniro

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: RobertDeniro
Was your dad an unskilled worker?

Define unskilled?

Entry level job.
No prior experience.
No prior training.
First job ever.

Why is entry level job ONLY applied to the employees? If a business only offers entry level jobs, shouldn't they be considered an entry level business? Since you used McDonalds as an example, how about the fact that owners rarely own single stores unless its a family ran store. At an average net sales of 2.3 million a year and 10% net profit, 230k average times however many stores equals quite the salary for doing nothing. So while each franchisee is making millions a year, they go as far as to SPEND MONEY to have information for government benefits printed up for new hires. I can think of a better place that multi-million dollar printing contract could be used...

As far as fast food skills, customer service is indeed a skill. Also speed of performance is a skill. For example, at the sandwich shop I manage, when I work the swing shift I work alone, because the owner knows I am fast enough to handle any rushes. If I'm not on swing, two people are working, so by logic I should be paid equal to what the other two make combined. I get a whole dollar an hour more than them for twice the productivity and a lot more responsibilty.

a reply to: neo96

your failing to take into consideration that my grandparents had an easier time finding a well paying job. The manufacturing industry the industry my grandparents and the majority of peoples grandparents on here probably worked for no longer exists in the US. The only other high paying jobs now are ones you have to go to college for and most people cant afford to do that.

I personally went to college and worked my butt of to get a degree now i'm 40,000 in debt and the best paying job i can find is one where i make 35,000 a year for 12 hours a day. You may think that's a pretty good wage but when you add a wife and 3 kids to the equation(just like my grandfather would have) you cant live on that with 700 a month in rent, 400 a month in student loans gas for cars, utilities, etc.

Yes there are a lot of greedy little brats now and days but no more then your elders thought there were when you were a kid. People want to be comfortable and yes I do think we do deserve some form of comfort. what the hell does one individual need with a billion dollars when theirs millions of people dying of disease and hunger around the world. Would everyone sacrificing a little so everyone could be happy really be a bad thing so no one would die of hunger?

Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

a reply to: bigcountry08

'Everyone' is already sacrificing to the point of breaking home budgets and choosing which bills get shorted each month. For many, the idea of ALL bills being paid 100% is one that hasn't been familiar for awhile now.

Sure..the "rich" (whomever they may be) could afford it but this type of law will never reach CEO's in franchise corporations. The franchise owner, who is not getting rich by any normal standard I know of, takes the hit to balance a MASSIVE new labor cost hike with the overhead costs that haven't gone down one bit and ....well...it leaves red.

Red is for Congress and blood banks. Small business cannot EVER..EVEN ONCE...have a 'red' year. That's called bankruptcy and the business is no more, at the level impacted most by min. wage type issues.

The ONLY place to make up a thing like this is in business revenue. That has to rise. There is no other mathematical way. That usually comes by prices.

Everyone should take a video just walking up and down the isles of Seattle stores today and compare that to 1 year from now. It may show something very interesting.

a reply to: KnowledgeSeeker81

Why is entry level job ONLY applied to the employees? If a business only offers entry level jobs, shouldn't they be considered an entry level business?

What does that mean?

At an average net sales of 2.3 million a year and 10% net profit, 230k average times however many stores equals quite the salary for doing nothing.

You're sort of high there. About 43%. 5.7% net profit is the average.
www.bluemaumau.org...
But "doing nothing?" Seriously? I've done business with McDonald's franchise owners. They tend to be very busy people, working very long hours. Not to mention the investment they have put into their franchise and the upgrades that McDonald's requires on a regular basis, upgrades for which the franchisee bears most of the cost. Shutting down a store for a week for construction takes a big bite out of the profits.

So while each franchisee is making millions a year, they go as far as to SPEND MONEY to have information for government benefits printed up for new hires.

Yeah, the government requires that. You can get a complete set of posters for about 40 bucks if you want a real nice set. www.google.com...

If I'm not on swing, two people are working, so by logic I should be paid equal to what the other two make combined. I get a whole dollar an hour more than them for twice the productivity and a lot more responsibilty.

It good that you have a good work ethic, keep it up and figure out how to use it to find a better job. But twice the productivity does not directly translate to twice the pay but as a manager I think you probably are underpaid.

Tell me this, you're making more than minimum wage right now I take it, and feeling crappy about it. How would you feel if the minimum wage was raised to what you're making and now those other two are making the same thing you are? You think you're going to get a raise?

By stating Americans are used to a lifestyle / quality of life, I did not mean"entitlement" I mean simply we are a first world country and not accustomed to living like third world countries. We are not going to revert to being paid third world wages without a war. The saving grace would be a depression, where yes it may be 3rd world living for awhile, but we won't be serfs, it would be only the strong rebuilding the nation as opposed to eating pooh as one poster so eloquently put it. Why won't we eat the pooh? Because we'd know the ones trying to force feed it to us is the ones who sold us out to China Mexico and India. Which would become a very bloody end for the sell outs in this case.

a reply to: bigcountry08

your failing to take into consideration that my grandparents had an easier time finding a well paying job.

Nope.

What people are failing to see that with the progress of technology most jobs are EASIER, than our parents, and our grandparents.

But 'we' deserve to be paid more!

Uh nope we don't.

a reply to: doobydoll

There is another reason for rising business and living costs, it's obviously not due to raising minimum pay because that hasn't happened.

What part of fiat currency do people not understand ?

Money is printed out of thin air to the tunes of TRILLIONS.

The more money in circulation the less value the dollar has.

Which means IT TAKES MORE OF IT to buy things.

But again that is what this is all about.

MATERIALISM.