Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

a reply to: LDragonFire

Funny how these corporations can afford to pay higher wages in other countries but not here in the states.

They do? Where?
Tokyo minimum wage is 763 JPY, $7.45 US right now.
Brazil mw is R$722.90/mnth, $1.98/hr right now.



Here's a list of US minimum wages by state:
www.ncsl.org...
What do you think?

encouraging the current strategy of buying from offshore companies because their people are willing to work for slave labor wages, is encouraging slavery across the entire planet. that needs to stop, as well. they need to form their own cooperatives in their own countries so their people can take advantage of their own labor.

a reply to: Phage

I’m making $21 an hour at McDonald’s. Why aren’t you?

You see, I work for McDonald’s in Denmark, where an agreement between our union and the company guarantees that workers older than 18 are paid at least $21 an hour. Employees younger than 18 make at least $15 — meaning teenagers working at McDonald’s in Denmark make more than two times what many adults in America earn working at the Golden Arches.

To anyone who says that fast-food jobs can’t be good jobs, I would answer that mine isn’t bad. In fact, parts of it are just fine. Under our union’s agreement with McDonald’s, for example, I receive paid sick leave that workers are still fighting for in many parts of the world. We also get overtime pay, guaranteed hours and at least two days off a week, unlike workers in most countries. At least 10 percent of the staff in any given restaurant must work at least 30 hours a week.

I'm making $21 an hour at....

a reply to: LDragonFire

do we know what the cost of living is in denmark? that makes all the difference.
for example, germans were making alot of money but a simple loaf of bread was more than a week's wages.

a reply to: undo

Are you thinking of Germany after WWII with hyperinflation? Germany has one of the best economies in Europe 4th biggest economy in the world.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: undo

Are you thinking of Germany after WWII with hyperinflation? Germany has one of the best economies in Europe 4th biggest economy in the world.

yeah that's what i'm referring to. the higher the cost of living, the more money must be made to offset it. that started here when we began accumulating laws governing standard of living requirements. so many children per bedroom, so many people per house, clothing in good repair, dental/medical standards, and etc. these were all reasonable and humane laws but the income to support them required both parents to work, which lowered the amount of jobs available to men with households, which resulted in the degradation of the standard of living of families effected, and so on. really nasty chain reactions started springing up all over the place, sorta like the butterfly effect.

there's a video on youtube by an economist who studied the devaluation of the american income since the 50's i think it was. and it's really bad. like in it takes 2 people working full time to equal the value of labor of 1 person working in the 50s, yet the cost of living has went up by a huge amount. i'll see if i can find it.

the information starts at 6:20

I prey there will be a minimum wage increase here in England, at the moment after insanely high rent and 20% tax's plus local council tax's I have nothing left to save, and it does not help that average house prices rose 11.1% sofar just this year. even if I could save all my wages the house prices are increasing faster than I can earn it.

Somthing has to give before we see some much needed riots and strikes over here.

The whole system is just a joke right now with all the corporate, political and government corruption, insane inflation, year after year of pay freezes, it's no wonder the high street shops and bars are shutting down at an alarming rate.

a reply to: xuenchen

The effects of a minimum wage boost are extremely complicated. Boosting the minimum wage is truly one of the stupidest things any government can do for that reason. I'm not sure why you would do something when the actual effects cannot be measured. They are taking an action and will have no idea what the effects of what they are doing are. Why would someone do something when the effects are too complicated to measure? Stupid.

Here are things that CAN happen:
1. Business decide instead of passing their costs to consumers as is standard practice, they will instead run as a charity and maintain their same prices while paying their employees a higher wage. Unlikely scenario. Probably never happened.
2. All the businesses effected are not well run and don't account very well. The minimum wage goes up and simply keeps doing everything the same except pay their employees more money. Their profits go down. They now have less money to invest. Black market opportunists now evaluate whether to pay less than minimum wage. Smart investors now look at the industries effected most as less attractive because there is less money to be made. The risk-return scenario is now worse, making it more attractive to invest in skilled labor enterprises where profit margins are unchanged instead of unskilled labor enterprises where profit margins are now reduced.
3. Prices of products at the companies go up to maintain the same level of profit. This has the ultimate effect of transferring some money to the white collar class to some people in the blue collar class. But entirely broke people will be totally screwed because their income is still zero and now their bills just went up. Who will end up ahead? Depends on your luck! I guess Democrats believe in lotto-based help for the poor. If your lucky, 1) you have a minimum wage job, 2) you won't lose your job and 3) you'll get a higher wage.
4. Wages across the board go up much more than expected because if $15 is the minimum wage that is paid to people with zero credentials and zero experience, then $20 or more will be paid to people with a lot of experience. This dramatically boosts prices but everyone ends up ahead. Everyone employed gets one level higher tax bracket, so its effectively a tax increase. While prices are up, as a percentage they are not up as high as the min. wage boost so people with blue collar jobs are better off. The people who are on retirement incomes are screwed because they are not making anything more but their costs are higher... if wages are 25% higher its absolutely obvious prices are going to go up at least some... while profits can go down, average net profit margins over time are perhaps 7% or 8% across all business. Therefore there is no option for businesses to simply make less money. They'd be out of business if they did not raise prices under this scenario.
5. Rather than businesses having to worry about prices, they focus on productivity. They seek to hire highly experienced employees with strong work abilities. If you look weak, sickly, or really young, then don't bother applying. The company needs to boost productivity 25% which they attempt to do by hiring only prime productivity employees. Unemployment stays the same but youth unemployment and senior citizen unemployment rises. People with weaker abilities now need all kinds of government support. This will have to be patched up with more government welfare since those who have no jobs now need a ton of government welfare.

Even under the very best scenario, you have to become a slightly communist country and say: You know that labor contract you own? Well I own it too now and I'm going to tell you what you have to do with it or I'll destroy you. I'm sorry but that is not civilized. If we have to raise the level of civilization by lowering it, then we have accomplished nothing and set the bar lower for the future. Its regression. Violence is not a good solution to lopsided contracts. Socialists will kill people if necessary or at least destroy their lives on a whim so THEY can have roads and THEIR children can have schools... then they call you greedy for opposing their thefts.

If you say "this is my private contract with a friend in private" the socialist will say, "no the contract must look like this with "$15 per hour" written here. I'll fine you and if you don't pay the fine I'll take your business property from you. If you try to go onto the business again I'll have you taken to jail for as long as you keep going there." Therefore, the socialist is ultimately entirely destroy the life of someone who insists they one their own contracts in private and will not pay the fine and will keep going to the business they rightfully owned.

Even if people are helped on balance by the dirty crimes of socialists, they have set up a class of people can commit crimes as a way of life named "politicians" and set up society to fail badly down the road.

a reply to: xuenchen

Communism is government ownership of the means of production. Labor contracts are a means of production. If a government has more control over wages than businesses do, then government is the the labor contract owner. The city of Seattle owns the means of production in businesses.

Each year, many business regulations are added. But, people call what we have capitalism. Ooops, wrong.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: xuenchen

But the bad news is it really won't get there until the year 2021.

Correction. That's the good news.

Spot the guy not living on minimum wage. Spare a thought for others less fortunate than yourself. Selfishness will destroy our civilization.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: pointr97

There is a pretty big difference between gross profit and net. Unless you think there are no overhead costs involved.
Not sure where you got those number though, See above.

McDonald's is subsidized? That's news to me.

Minimum wage workers receive food-stamps. As such, we are subsidizing McDonald's.

originally posted by: ScreenBogey

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: pointr97

There is a pretty big difference between gross profit and net. Unless you think there are no overhead costs involved.
Not sure where you got those number though, See above.

McDonald's is subsidized? That's news to me.

Minimum wage workers receive food-stamps. As such, we are subsidizing McDonald's.

Erm, not really. The USA is subsidizing an entry level part time worker who doesn't add enough value to a business to get paid more than minimum wage. You really think someone dropping french fries into the fryer should get paid 40k a year? Then what happens to the people who are making 40k a year now through valuable job skills?

The argument that a minimum-wage is bad for an economy has been proved fallacious. In the UK, the Conservatives railed against Labour for introducing a minimum-wage, stating the same stale old arguments against it. Guess what, the economy didn't suffer one bit.

I really do suggest that anyone who is opposed to a minimum wage try living on it for a while, without external support. Creating a poor underclass is bad for everyone. It creates an unstable and violent society.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: Phage

I’m making $21 an hour at McDonald’s. Why aren’t you?

You see, I work for McDonald’s in Denmark, where an agreement between our union and the company guarantees that workers older than 18 are paid at least $21 an hour. Employees younger than 18 make at least $15 — meaning teenagers working at McDonald’s in Denmark make more than two times what many adults in America earn working at the Golden Arches.

To anyone who says that fast-food jobs can’t be good jobs, I would answer that mine isn’t bad. In fact, parts of it are just fine. Under our union’s agreement with McDonald’s, for example, I receive paid sick leave that workers are still fighting for in many parts of the world. We also get overtime pay, guaranteed hours and at least two days off a week, unlike workers in most countries. At least 10 percent of the staff in any given restaurant must work at least 30 hours a week.

I'm making $21 an hour at....

And the US, unlike Denmark, isn't having a rush of immigrants who previously made $1 an hour who now make $7.25 or less per hour. I think I'm more impressed by the 700% raise than the 300% raise.

Both the United States and Denmark are firmly in economically Fascist ground. Both the United States and Denmark are in economic regression. Tell me about a country with an expanding minimum wage AND and expanding middle class. Good luck. Or, how about a country with high minimum wage and a higher than average long-term GDP growth rate? My economics is based on facts, not communist wishful thinking.

Serious question: What is the per-capita fast food count in Denmark vs. USA? That would be an interesting comparison to see whether a high minimum wage is crushing the industry in Denmark as I would expect it would. Of course that is only one aspect of a complex issue, but I'd love to see the results.

Edit: I didn't find any direct results for Denmark vs. USA but roughly estimate fast food in USA as 1 restaurant per 8,000 people compared to 1 in 20,000 for Denmark. This would be as predicted based on the relatively higher wages in Denmark. The return on fast food is lower in Denmark because the profits are lower. Investment is done on a risk-return basis. I predicted lower investment in Denmark and I found lower investment in Denmark. You have less choices, less convenience, and more communism in Denmark. No thanks.

Denmark has no coffee bar/café chains like Starbucks or Dome, and Illy, the Italian coffee supplier, decided to stay out after investigating the market.

and also...

The fast food market is struggling, says the study, for similar reasons the relatively few American-style chains are experiencing difficulties, although the market is expected to increase slowly in volume over the next five years.

Source: www.just-food.com...

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: ScreenBogey

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: pointr97

There is a pretty big difference between gross profit and net. Unless you think there are no overhead costs involved.
Not sure where you got those number though, See above.

McDonald's is subsidized? That's news to me.

Minimum wage workers receive food-stamps. As such, we are subsidizing McDonald's.

Erm, not really. The USA is subsidizing an entry level part time worker who doesn't add enough value to a business to get paid more than minimum wage. You really think someone dropping french fries into the fryer should get paid 40k a year? Then what happens to the people who are making 40k a year now through valuable job skills?

I think everyone should have a shot at improving themselves. I think that their children should not live in an environment where they are so poor they cannot improve themselves.

Meanwhile lets keep subsidizing oil companies. It's absurd and tragic. The greatest tragedy is that much of the working / middle classes continue to argue and vote against their own best interests, the victims of cynical propaganda and their own ignorance.

originally posted by: wayforward

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: Phage

I’m making $21 an hour at McDonald’s. Why aren’t you?

You see, I work for McDonald’s in Denmark, where an agreement between our union and the company guarantees that workers older than 18 are paid at least $21 an hour. Employees younger than 18 make at least $15 — meaning teenagers working at McDonald’s in Denmark make more than two times what many adults in America earn working at the Golden Arches.

To anyone who says that fast-food jobs can’t be good jobs, I would answer that mine isn’t bad. In fact, parts of it are just fine. Under our union’s agreement with McDonald’s, for example, I receive paid sick leave that workers are still fighting for in many parts of the world. We also get overtime pay, guaranteed hours and at least two days off a week, unlike workers in most countries. At least 10 percent of the staff in any given restaurant must work at least 30 hours a week.

I'm making $21 an hour at....

And the US, unlike Denmark, isn't having a rush of immigrants who previously made $1 an hour who now make $7.25 or less per hour. I think I'm more impressed by the 700% raise than the 300% raise.

Both the United States and Denmark are firmly in economically Fascist ground. Both the United States and Denmark are in economic regression. Tell me about a country with an expanding minimum wage AND and expanding middle class. Good luck. Or, how about a country with high minimum wage and a higher than average long-term GDP growth rate? My economics is based on facts, not communist wishful thinking.

Serious question: What is the per-capita fast food count in Denmark vs. USA? That would be an interesting comparison to see whether a high minimum wage is crushing the industry in Denmark as I would expect it would. Of course that is only one aspect of a complex issue, but I'd love to see the results.

Mass importation of cheap labor is interesting. At the root of economics there is one rule: Supply and Demand. And the rich are mass-importing cheap labor to keep costs / salaries down. I suppose they are creating a world of serfs, and they are throwing the citizens / middle-classes of their respective nations under the bus. It can't go on. The ecosystem cannot support it.

a reply to: ScreenBogey

and guess what
*shocker*
these same places are lobbying for the ability to accept the foodstamps their workers have to receive

just ran across this www.ebt.ca.gov...
(i see in my area they can be used at burger king, pizza hut, wendys, wing stop, and a handful of other places)
walmart does the same thing (underpays their employees so they have to get on food stamps and likely spend those food stamps at walmart)

enter your location and click restaurant meal locations
(mcdonalds does not yet accept them but i doubt that is going to last very long)

They're just throwing out a bone, a precedent setting bone but just a bone nonetheless.

Sit back and figure out how many times we are forced to pay for something after figuring what it costs to procure, insure and maintain everything, and then those pesky transactional taxes for every single little tiny thing we need to do anything at all.

Consider how much money has changed hands in the lifetime of a car for instance, it being only a car you wouldn't think it to be so much, but it's an awful lot of money considering what goes along with it.

What entity/entities exactly is it that makes the most money for the least effort and still can't seem to get by?.

How on god's green earth did we let it go so far, we must have been busy praying and hoping.