Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

a reply to: Phage

McDonald's is subsidized? That's news to me.

Yes McDonald's is subsidized.
Fast Food CEOs Rake in Taxpayer-Subsidized Pay

These CEO pay subsidies are the result of a loophole that allows firms to deduct unlimited amounts from their income taxes for the cost of stock options, certain stock grants, and other forms of so-called “performance pay” for top executives. Put simply: the more corporations pay their CEOs, the less they pay in federal taxes. And ordinary taxpayers wind up footing the bill.

McDonald’s received the second-largest government handout. As CEO in 2011 and the first half of 2012, James Skinner pocketed $31 million in exercised stock options and other fully deductible “performance pay.” Incoming CEO Donald Thompson took in $10 million in performance pay in his first six months on the job. Skinner and Thompson’s combined performance pay translates into a $14 million taxpayer subsidy for McDonald’s.

So not only are we having to subsidize their employees because the don't pay them enough we also subsidize their CEO's who get paid way too much. It's time to cut off these welfare queens.

a reply to: buster2010

I guess all employers are being subsidized since they all write off their payrolls and other expenses. I guess a Christmas bonus is a subsidy.

I guess I'm subsidized too since I can write off the mortgage interest on my house

They are not being subsidized. They are taking tax deductions. I suppose you don't do that? You don't claim any deductions when you file? Get a grip.

Those guys that get the bonuses? Guess what? They pay taxes on them.

So not only are we having to subsidize their employees because the don't pay them enough

We would subsidize their employees more if they didn't have that job at all. Which, btw, a steep increase in minimum wage could possible cause to happen.

i'm not even sure if this debate is going to matter if we keep heading in the current direction. someone was pointing out to me earlier, that we use to trade with china 1-10, now we are 1-6 and when we get to 1-1, they'll own our homes and our land.

a reply to: undo

Yup, either increased minimum wage or throw it out the door, either way we're going down because we can't compete with China's forced (communistic) labor.

I used this funny little joke on another thread regarding the velocity of money, a big pay raise for minimum wage jobs would make the mula flow a bit faster for maybe a minute......

Two Keynesian economists, John Maynard Keynes and Paul Krugman, were walking down the street one day when they passed two large piles of dog #.
Keynes said to Krugman, "I'll pay you $20,000 to eat one of those piles of #." Krugman agrees and chooses one of the piles and eats it. Keynes pays him his $20,000.
Then Krugman, feeling richer, says, "I'll pay you $20,000 to eat the other pile of #." Keynes, feeling bad about the money he lost says okay, and eats the #. Krugman pays him the $20,000.
They resume walking down the street.
After a while, Krugman says, "You know, I don't feel very good. We both have the same amount of money as when we started. The only difference is we've both eaten #."
Keynes says: "Ah, but you're ignoring the fact that we've increased the GDP by $40,000...

And feel it applies here too......

It's all such a joke anyway, what needs to be done will never be done because those who benefit from the way things are will eat # or anything they have to in order to make sure things stay the way they are.

Except they will make other people eat # for them, and those who eat it for them will thank them for it like they did them some kind of a favor or something.

Where's that damned mouthwash at?.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Too true.
One fact you have overlooked is that Americans expect a certain quality of life, a certain lifestyle, take that away and I highly doubt they'll just eat the pooh and be glad to, and here pissed Americans are armed at least for now. Somehow I think it won't be too pretty when pissed Armed Americans decide to hand that pooh back a'la lead bullets. But this is why they're trying to take the guns from our hands.

Having been a small business owner myself, I can see where this will cause havoc and a lot of lost jobs. I do see this working for the average small business owner if they make all job positions an average of 20 hrs per week. Then cut out all benefits and I mean all. (The biggest meaning no insurance.) Being from the South, I am seeing more and more mom and pop shops closing every day due to not clearing a profit. Good people not wanting to charge triple or more for their products because they know that the local economy can not withstand the needed profit margin in order for the owner to make a basic living wage themselves. Seattle prides itself on being a leader in change. I'm afraid that the only big change they'll see is more unemployment and Walmart on every corner.

When I had a job the hours were reduced before the lay-offs started, now everyone I know is only working part time, several part time jobs for most.

This was in 2008 when that "credit crunch" thing was the talk of the town, but nobody really understood what that term actually meant.

A lot of businesses take out "short term paper" to pay their employees and won't be able to get the credit to pay the extra wages and will have to cut hours or tell people to hit the bricks.

I am sure that the bigger businesses that can afford to pay the increased wages supported this measure more than the small businesses did.

What ever happened to paying people with money one actually has anyway?.

Yada Yada.....Me so silly....

The bigger businesses would stand to gain the market share that the small businesses would free up when they go under because they can't afford to pay the higher wages, yeah, that must be it....

a reply to: smcneil01

That's the problem with americans, they think they are entitled to a certain standard of living, if only they were willing to eat a little more dirt they would find that they actually could be happier than they are now.

Must be all of those ads on TV, ya know the one's that all those cable and satellite providers were supposed to reduce the number of?.

At least that's what they claimed to get y'all to buy the useless #...a reply to: ldyserenity

Liberals love poor people, that's why they create so many.
They also don't understand that no matter what the minimum wage is, it's still minimum wage. Prices adjust and they still are at the bottom of the curve.



Here is the start of unintended consequences

www.unitedliberty.org...

a reply to: Mamatus

Oh man, I wish everyone had common sense and work ethic like yourself.... Thank you.


Do these people not understand what will happen if their minimum wage increases? So will their cost of living... They will be right in the same spot they were in, pay check to pay check living. And, did they not know how little of pay they were going to receive when they took the fast food job? Why not try and get a new job?

Fast food jobs were not meant to be careers, so why do they try and make it a career?

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Ouch! Notice you don't seem too happy with Americans. You don't list your location...so I assume you don't live here in the good ole US of A? Or maybe it's the lack of a job getting ya down. Maybe I should send you the want ads from TN....we have lots of jobs available. If they are not to your liking, then ya, you might want to kick it down a notch or two and expect to eat a little dirt. I have. My husband has. Many of my friends have. But we live in America. The land of opportunity...if you get off your butt. There is work here. Maybe not the work we want at the moment but it is doable for the moment. I agree with ldyserenity for the most part. Sorry.

originally posted by: Mamatus

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Mamatus
Nice to see how some business owners think of their workers. You outright call them slaves.

Clearly you do not understand my business. First off my workers are far from wage slaves. I pay my guys nearly 20.00 an hour for a four hour morning. They make more than an eight hour a day fast food worker. I love my employees and take them on annual trips, give them Christmas bonuses etc etc. All in all they do about 40 minutes of manual labor with about 2 hours of driving my chase trucks. The rest is waiting around. My competitors pay $10.00 an hour on average...... But I like smart people and you have to pay for smart people.....

Wage slaves are what an eight hour minimum wage employee's are. That is a simple fact. My guys are not wage slaves.

Hang on. Didn't you just say in an earlier post that small business owners 'don't have the wiggle room in their tiny profit margins' to pay their workers more than minimum wage?

Yet here you are saying you are a small business owner and pay your workers more than minimum wage, pay them bonuses and take them on trips, all that and still make a profit? If you can make it work, why can't the rest?

originally posted by: ldyserenity
a reply to: Ancient Champion



I am sorry but I think people would be more healthy if McDonalds wasn't around and life would be more pleasant for our eyes. Just I don't want to see obese people in my eyesight. It's how I truly feel. It's bad in USA makes me not want to leave the house at all so my eyes aren't assaulted. Just one of my pet peeves. Maybe rude, it may be shallow, but it's truly how I feel.

You may not be able to change who you are BUT you can keep opinions like that to yourself. It's called having manners.

a reply to: mahalo182

Do these people not understand what will happen if their minimum wage increases? So will their cost of living... They will be right in the same spot they were in, pay check to pay check living.

Let me reverse that for you:

These people understand what WILL happen if their minimum wage DOES NOT increase. Their cost of living will DEFINITELY continue to increase, since it HAS been doing so for years...and without a wage increase they will be WORSE off than they are now.

If the poorest of the poor's wages do not keep pace with inflation, what do you think is going to happen to them?

And, did they not know how little of pay they were going to receive when they took the fast food job? Why not try and get a new job?

Fast food jobs were not meant to be careers, so why do they try and make it a career?

The jobs went overseas, there are not enough decent paying jobs left for everyone who requires one. Fast food jobs used to be meant for teenagers, getting their first experience in the job market. This is no longer the case, as people NEED these jobs just to live. They will be unable to get a better job unless and until jobs come back to America.

Also. not everyone is going to be capable of becoming a professional something-or-other. (Be it through intelligence OR opportunities/life circumstances.)

A minimum wage job ought to cover the BASIC expenses of living - no matter where you live. I would not want less for any of my fellow humans. I do think it ought to be regionally determined though; as, for example, food and rent/mortgage prices are NOT the same from area to area.

a reply to: Phage

We would subsidize their employees more if they didn't have that job at all. Which, btw, a steep increase in minimum wage could possible cause to happen.

At least those whom will have a job will no longer be 'working poor', they'll be off benefits, and supporting themselves, and paying taxes - like it should be.

Those whom end up losing their jobs and claiming benefits will be no worse off than when they were working and earning minimum pay, in both instances they have to claim benefits to live. So it won't hurt them financially. And they won't have fares to pay for work so they'll probably be better off.

If a McD's boss chooses to lay off employees rather than raise the price of the product to cover the wage increase, how will he meet his usual sales quota with half the staff? Is he going to turn customers away at 'rush' times? Surely he'll be shooting himself in the foot by laying his much needed staff off.

McD's workers might be unskilled, but their bosses should remember that without them their business couldn't operate, and they too would also be out of work and signing on. The one excellent skill these workers have is keeping the likes of McD's afloat and prospering, and in my eyes that fact alone makes them worth more than minimum pay.

a reply to: ldyserenity

I am sorry but I think people would be more healthy if McDonalds wasn't around and life would be more pleasant for our eyes. Just I don't want to see obese people in my eyesight. It's how I truly feel. It's bad in USA makes me not want to leave the house at all so my eyes aren't assaulted. Just one of my pet peeves. Maybe rude, it may be shallow, but it's truly how I feel.

Whilst I agree that McDonald's is certainly no boon to society, (and that is for everyone's health) - I really don't think anyone owes it to you (or anyone else) to be "more pleasant for your eyes". Perhaps it is best that you would deign to stay at home, lest your delicate sensibilities be affronted by your fellow human's very existence.

Wooo Hoooo!

$15 effing dollars an hour for cleaning a toilet, pushing a broom,flipping burgers, or bagging groceries, etc.

Ain't unskilled labor grand ?

Hell you can 'raise a family' on it ! ! !

Tell ya what unions better watch out !

Who needs them!

Also tell ya what who needs a GD degree !

Living high on the hog doing crap jobs that are for teenagers.

a reply to: doobydoll

At least those whom will have a job will no longer be 'working poor', they'll be off benefits, and supporting themselves, and paying taxes - like it should be.

Hate to burst that bubble BUT :

Between the employers matching employees social security contributions, their medicare contributions, the increase 'wage' for employees unemployment 'insurance.

Then take that cash away because of the INCREASE income taxes between the state, and the feds.

Then the increase for food, the increase for gas, plus that thing called inflation.

WOO HOO!

Got a raise, and they won't see a GD penny of it.

originally posted by: doobydoll
At least those whom will have a job will no longer be 'working poor', they'll be off benefits, and supporting themselves, and paying taxes - like it should be.

Those whom end up losing their jobs and claiming benefits will be no worse off than when they were working and earning minimum pay, in both instances they have to claim benefits to live. So it won't hurt them financially. And they won't have fares to pay for work so they'll probably be better off.

To a point. Once that point is crossed, and this point is different for every country and I haven't actually calculated what the US point would be, than it is tits up for everybody under the self sufficiency thresholds....which is pretty much everybody outside of the top 5%.

It would be far easier, and less costly to everybody, to modify the progressive tax structure to allow for less taxation at lower income levels. However, this is difficult to implement as it requires a very careful balancing act between all taxes; income, sales, etc.

A min wage increase attempts to keep the lowest earners in step with an ever increasing OL, while a tax restructure could significantly reduce the rate of COL increase.