Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
a reply to: interupt42

I applaud your capitalistic mindset as a business owner. Get rich and while the public isn't looking get richer.

Not a capitalistic mindset but rather realist and it brings me no pleasure to see the reality of the situation nor knowing that we all aren't dealt the same opportunities nor luck.

Is not that I don't wish it wouldn't work or that we all can't live a comfortable life.Its that I truly don't see raising the middle wage as a good thing for the middle class and below only for the upper class in the long run.

How will your business run with no employees?

How will you eat without work?

Without a doubt the small mom pops getting bye will surely go under , but rest assure the upperclass business owners who have savings will survive and will outlast the pissed off workers once they get hungry.

a reply to: Mamatus
Mamatus, you do realize that in a lot of places now, kids are BEING ARRESTED FOR SELLING LEMONADE, right? It isn't that easy anymore to have a hustle; get caught and you are out of thousands of dollars for may a couple hundred profit margin. My aunt use to be a peanut girl. Stand in the middle of intersections and sell peanuts for 5 bucks a bag. Made a great living at it, bought a house. This was the 60s, 70s, and 80. Guess what, in the 90s, the city started instituting a PEDDLERS LICENSE. She went for it, it was 100 bucks, no biggie. 10 years later the cost was 1200 a YEAR.

Whiners is not the word for a slave wager. Desperate would be more concise. Or teenager, elderly.

What have the prostitutes reported on this? Serious question - when streetwalkers raise their price we know inflation is afoot.

Overall I think this 15 buck and hour thing does not address the problems of Seattle. They have a heroin drug epidemic of massive proportion, that have a high unemployment rate, rainy weather like London, a high cost of living even in poor areas, and an overall breakdown of industry there - especially after shutting down that Monorail they never did maintenance on or losing the Seattle Supersonics, one of the biggest job providers there.

The educational system up there is less to be desired. Only thing going on worth a damn is the relaxed regulations of marijuana and we have yet to see how much that will impact Seattle financially or will the DEA come in and throw a monkey wrench into all that revenue stream they are getting.

a reply to: interupt42

How will you eat without work?

I'd claim unemployment benefits.

If for whatever reason I couldn't claim benefits, then I'd have no choice but to STEAL to feed myself, or resort to some other crime.

Without a doubt the small mom pops getting bye will surely go under , but rest assure the upperclass business owners who have savings will survive and will outlast the pissed off workers once they get hungry.

Those 'upper classes' are gonna be more pissed off than us because once we get hungry they're the ones we'll be stealing from.

Me personally, I think it should be around $10 an hour. Maybe more in different states that have higher standard of living. You know those states that charge an arm and leg for a gallon of milk. $15 might be about right in 2021 the way this economy is booming oh wait did I say booming lol.

originally posted by: interupt42

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
a reply to: interupt42

I applaud your capitalistic mindset as a business owner. Get rich and while the public isn't looking get richer.

Not a capitalistic mindset but rather realist and it brings me no pleasure to see the reality of the situation nor knowing that we all aren't dealt the same opportunities nor luck.

Is not that I don't wish it wouldn't work or that we all can't live a comfortable life.Its that I truly don't see raising the middle wage as a good thing for the middle class and below only for the upper class in the long run.

How will your business run with no employees?

How will you eat without work?

Without a doubt the small mom pops getting bye will surely go under , but rest assure the upperclass business owners who have savings will survive and will outlast the pissed off workers once they get hungry.

How will you eat without work?

Knowing a bit about hunting and gardening should get me by.

Without a doubt the small mom pops getting bye will surely go under , but rest assure the upperclass business owners who have savings will survive and will outlast the pissed off workers once they get hungry.

If the small mom and pop shop only profit because of cheap labor, good shut them down. If that mom and pop shop can't be successful without "unskilled" labor, then they should find another career.

edit on 4-6-2014 by KnowledgeSeeker81 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: doobydoll

As a small "mom and pop" business, I can't pay my "unskilled laborers" 15 dollars an hour. They will be let go and the rest of us will have to pick up their slack.

And if someone wants to try and steal what I've worked for, I wont be getting "pissed", I'll be eleminating the threat!

Good luck with your" I'll just take it" mentality. I hope it gets you far.

Remember you raise the min wage and all other wages will "Have " to follow suit.
Would you pay a trained professional $30.00 and a burger flipper $15.00 ???
The trained folks will want the same percent increase. So now car mechs will be getting $90.00 /hr.
Just wait to take your car for an oil change......

As always, the real problems are never addressed while the herd argues their opinion on meaningless subjects.

Without price controls on the things people NEED to survive, nothing will change.

I'm not advocating making everything within reach of the less privileged, just what people cannot live without.

I see a time coming when things will be so bad that nobody is going to be arguing anymore over what they need, and when that time comes you all will realize you are actually nothing but debt slaves.

Not like you aren't already.

It's written on your money.

how will you eat without work?

you're dumb and that's why you'll die if the SHTF I'll be eating fine, I don't need Mexicans to grow and harvest my food, I can do it on my own, also I'm learning archery (actually brushing up on it, technically) and getting my hunting license, also for my daughter I'm going to teach her, I'll eat just damn fine, and if I somehow can't scrounge up the minor $31 fee for a license, I'll just have to be a little stealthy.

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
a reply to: ldyserenity

On the disagreement sentiment would you be more intrigued to apply for an 8 dollar an hour job that is hiring or a 10 dollar an hour job that is hiring for the same work. The 10 dollar an hour job gets more applicants therefore statistically providing more qualified successful employees. You know the interview process, if you are good you get hired or at least called for a 2nd interview. If you aren't, well thanks for your time.

Yes they would apply for the same job offering 10/hr hypothetically, except now businesses know people are desperate taking lower pay, so this isn't even on the table anyway. Unless you live in a higher cost of living area, and in that case it is still like getting 8$ at a lower cost of living area, so this point is totally moot

a reply to: BlubberyConspiracy

Solar, Wind etc. Technologies should provide for the basic requirements of life. Any additional purchasing power beyond a monthly allowance for (entertainment, luxuries, etc) can only be afforded by those who choose to work (maintaining the grid, teaching, asteroid defense).

Purchasing power should only relate to luxuries. Bare life essentials would be a right. Population limit could be bought out of if you provide enough service or collect enough purchasing points by providing artwork/music etc that people would be willing to spend their allowances/earnings on.

The ideal society is not that far away.

I hate your idea, this brings up thoughts of eugenics when you talk about "population caps" that's horrendous imo. We need to be self reliant as a nation, and as individuals. I think people should be given the tools to grow, harvest their own food, hunt their own meat, provide their own electric power or not if they are fine without it. Those who can't / won't will either be taken care of by family or perish. Something like the pioneers and native American culture. We'd of course still need phone/ internet providers, which we could pay in trade or get a new monetary system selling books and music like you say and paying for net/phones, etc.

Found this article. This may not happen to everyone, but it's food for thought.

A February report from the Seattle Times revealed:

At the Clarion Hotel off International Boulevard, a sit-down restaurant has been shuttered, though it might soon be replaced by a less-labor-intensive cafe…

Other businesses have adjusted in ways that run the gamut from putting more work in the hands of managers, to instituting a small “living-wage surcharge” for a daily parking space near the airport.

That’s not all. According to Assunta Ng, publisher of the Northwest Asian Weekly, some employees are feeling the pinch as employers cut benefits. She recalls a conversation she had with two hotel employees who have been affected by the wage hike:

“Are you happy with the $15 wage?” I asked the full-time cleaning lady.

“It sounds good, but it’s not good,” the woman said.

“Why?” I asked.

“I lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation,” she responded. “No more free food,” she added.

The hotel used to feed her. Now, she has to bring her own food. Also, no overtime, she said. She used to work extra hours and received overtime pay.

What else? I asked.

“I have to pay for parking,” she said.

I then asked the part-time waitress, who was part of the catering staff.

“Yes, I’ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,” she said. Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. But her tips added to more than $15 an hour. Yes, she used to receive free food and parking. Now, she has to bring her own food and pay for parking.

originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: doobydoll

As a small "mom and pop" business, I can't pay my "unskilled laborers" 15 dollars an hour. They will be let go and the rest of us will have to pick up their slack.

And if someone wants to try and steal what I've worked for, I wont be getting "pissed", I'll be eleminating the threat!

Good luck with your" I'll just take it" mentality. I hope it gets you far.

As a working age person I can't afford to feed myself or pay my way without the increase. Let me go and i'll just claim benefits until I can find another job.

Realistically, if I can't claim benefits and I can't find a job, meantime I have to eat, what options do I have to stave off hunger? I'll have two options. Begging, or crime, or both.

One thing's for sure, I won't just lay down and wait to die, and neither will thousands of other hungry desperate people.

a reply to: doobydoll

As a working person..you won't be able to afford much more after local inflation catches up to artificially pumped wages. It's not a theory but an economic requirement of balance that will be found, whether we much want it to or not.

This just raised the numbers on all sides ... wages, costs, prices.... by about the same % (in theory it won't kick the others higher).

Hopefully you will all have some margin to enjoy during the lag between changes and consequences working their way through the system. The nation is absolutely watching Seattle, that's an understatement.

a reply to: interupt42

Without a doubt the small mom pops getting bye will surely go under , but rest assure the upperclass business owners who have savings will survive and will outlast the pissed off workers once they get hungry.

Not when the dollar is devalued down to zero all that "money" ain't gonna buy them #. That's what's gonna happen.

a reply to: jtrenthacker

I then asked the part-time waitress, who was part of the catering staff.

“Yes, I’ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,” she said. Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. But her tips added to more than $15 an hour. Yes, she used to receive free food and parking. Now, she has to bring her own food and pay for parking.

It's far from a tragedy that she has to now pay for food and parking. Her pay has doubled excluding tips. And aren't tips included in sit-down restaurant bills? So I can't see how her tips will be 'much less'. Add her usual tips to her now doubled pay, and she's a happy lady I'm sure. I don't think her food and parking will make much of a dent in her new pay, it certainly won't amount to what she's gained per hour.

I'll bet she prefers to pay for food and parking anyway - it feels good to be able to put your hand in your own pocket and pay your own way.

originally posted by: doobydoll
Her pay has doubled excluding tips, and she also gets tips on top. I don't think her food and parking will make much of a dent in her new pay, it certainly won't amount to what she's gained per hour.

From what I read of that article she is making less net/net. Additionally the food and parking aspect should not be so quickly discounted, establishments like this buy in bulk and can purchase more cheaply what the employee buys at a market.

As a former restaurant owner I used to let all my employees eat for free and often take home food as well. Technically I was supposed to charge them for all this and remit taxes as the government considers this earned income and wants their cut.

I can't reiterate enough how people need to kick the money addiction. Why can't someone change their own oil? It's not rocket science, I can and I'm a woman. People need to do for them selves . Plus you if you are working you have saved yourself in gas AND LABOR COSTS by doing it yourself. The only reason you should ever see a mechanic should be for major issues. I can fully tune up my vehicle. This is an easy skill, in fact the basic stuff I really don't even consider that"skilled labor". Sure the cost of the items may go up for DIY'S but in the long run you'll still end up saving money. And you'll feel more accomplished.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: doobydoll
Her pay has doubled excluding tips, and she also gets tips on top. I don't think her food and parking will make much of a dent in her new pay, it certainly won't amount to what she's gained per hour.

From what I read of that article she is making less net/net. Additionally the food and parking aspect should not be so quickly discounted, establishments like this buy in bulk and can purchase more cheaply what the employee buys at a market.

As a former restaurant owner I used to let all my employees eat for free and often take home food as well. Technically I was supposed to charge them for all this and remit taxes as the government considers this earned income and wants their cut.

I may have misunderstood the post.

I assumed the 'free food' she was provided with was a free meal whilst at work, is this not the case? Or was the restaurant giving free shopping away to all it's minimum pay workers before the pay rise?