Renewing my evil god challenge

a reply to: charles1952

You make me blush my friend...

Perhaps another touch of clarity from the OP's mind...

I refuse to follow a God who condones killing, raping, pillaging

The OP has been trying to make a point on ATS, that being Jesus is the same as the god of the OT

Meaning at one point in time Jesus did condone said atrocities... of course we know by what is written about him that he would not....

moving on...

I cannot judge God based on His past actions, if 3,500 years ago, there was a tribe of people worshiping demons, sacrificing children, having bizarre religious sex orgies and slitting their wrists in worshiping their "god", and God sent a group of Israelite's to annihilate them, I cannot judge God on that.

How do we know these other tribes were actually crazy baby killing sex fiends? That's whats written in the book, but we also know that the winners of these wars write the history of them...

What is written could very well be and excuse for a land grab, just as the OT God always commands his people to do... go out and conquer the land...

But lets just assume its correct... the people that were annihilated were all bonkers, God didn't like them much so he sent his armies to destroy them... Once the people are subdued and no longer a threat, they are further commanded in most cases to destroy everything.... Men, women, and children... even livestock and crops...

Is that Merciful?

Is that Love?

Forgiveness?

Would a just and merciful God kill children and women who have no part in the slaughter or fighting... no means of fighting back... Merely people caught in the midst of MAN'S war, terrified for their lives and the lives of their young?

Would a just and merciful God tell them to take the women for themselves as spoils of war, as if women are a commodity to be taken as slaves or worse?

IF you consider Jesus God... who preached nothing but mercy, forgiveness and peace...

Do you truly believe HE would command these things to be done to the innocent?

Well as we've covered already.... Theres nothing in the NT that is even close to such things...

IF Jesus is God in the flesh as Christians believe... He CAN NOT be the same as the OT god

a reply to: AfterInfinity

It might be a good idea to point out said tyranny and terrorism in the Gospels before making such a claim

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: AfterInfinity

It might be a good idea to point out said tyranny and terrorism in the Gospels before making such a claim

For the last time...see my first post. Why is everyone just ignoring it? Like they don't have the energy to return to the first page and observe the post right after the OP. It's right there.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Ya... a page from evil bible that has no NT verses in it...

a reply to: Akragon

Dear Akragon,

I find this unpleasant for two reasons. One, I've been dinged quite a lot lately by Moderators who feel I mention other posters in opposition to the rules. Second, it is never pleasant to criticize one who has a heart in the right place, courage and fortitude. But I feel honesty demands it.

Godlover25 is a person with a good heart, but I believe his argument contained some confusing, misleading, and unnecessary statements. That's why I have been focusing on his single clear request. My honest opinion is that he presented a claim in a new and interesting way, but he was mounting a hunting expedition against a squirrel.

I hope no one on ATS, or anywhere for that matter, would seriously believe that God was ordering the Catholic Ladies' Sewing Guild to start stabbing people with their knitting needles. It should be a tiny little thread, I'm not sure I would have even considered starting one with that narrow of a topic.

Also, unfortunately, his passion and love for God carried away some of his intellect. He went into arguments and statements which could only inflame his audience, for no real purpose.

Your idea of exploring whether there was a God Change when Jesus was born is an intriguing one, with lots of possible twists and turns. It could be a very good thread and lead to a lot of learning. Unfortunately, we can't select our participants. If we thought this thread was a mud-pit, your idea would resemble ten mixed martial arts fighters who simultaneously insult each other's wives, girlfriends, or mothers.

I'd probably sit your thread out until the crazies had exhausted themselves.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Ya... a page from evil bible that has no NT verses in it...

Pick up a New Testament. Turn the pages until you find the corresponding chapters and verses. Peruse.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I've said my piece, I've provided evidence, I've done everything I can. At this point, I'm going to break before the brick wall does, and someday, this god will be as dead as the Greek pantheon. And this discussion will no longer be necessary.

Good riddance.

a reply to: charles1952

I find this unpleasant for two reasons. One, I've been dinged quite a lot lately by Moderators who feel I mention other posters in opposition to the rules.

there is no rule about mentioning other members in their own thread... Or rules about mentioning said members previous threads or efforts to continue the same dead argument...

Second, it is never pleasant to criticize one who has a heart in the right place, courage and fortitude. But I feel honesty demands it.

Pointing out ones mistakes is nothing more then honesty... A man holds to his truth until a greater truth conquers it...

Godlover25 is a person with a good heart, but I believe his argument contained some confusing, misleading, and unnecessary statements.

I have never once said anything about who he is as a person... In fact I even said in another thread of his that "I do not know him, or what kind of person he is in real life... but this is a discussion forum, and if one chooses to bring their beliefs into this world... said person will meet opposition... BUT... peoples opinions of another persons beliefs have nothing to do with who that person is... Nor does it change who he/she is"

Your idea of exploring whether there was a God Change when Jesus was born is an intriguing one, with lots of possible twists and turns.

This is a mistake a lot of people seem to think im trying to show...

A NEW God was not introduced... the ONLY God was finally revealed.... the ONE that has always been, even before the creation of the world...

I wrote a thread a long while ago explaining this idea more clearly.... and of course this is not to say exactly what happened "in the beginning" but a metaphysical story that the limited human intellect can grasp...

Understanding the Indescribable

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Ya... a page from evil bible that has no NT verses in it...

Pick up a New Testament. Turn the pages until you find the corresponding chapters and verses. Peruse.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I've said my piece, I've provided evidence, I've done everything I can. At this point, I'm going to break before the brick wall does, and someday, this god will be as dead as the Greek pantheon. And this discussion will no longer be necessary.

Good riddance.

Pick up a New Testament... Find the four books that actually matter....

And see if you can find anything related to those OT passages...

I can save you the trouble and tell you... you won't find any...

Or you could look for yourself

a reply to: Akragon

Dear Akragon,

Drat! Blast it! Rats! (Can you tell I'm upset? I'm testing my limits.) I just can't write anymore. I offered no criticism of you at all, nor was I intending to defend Godlover25's arguments.

I did make a mistake in presenting your opinion as I did, I should have known better from your posts. Finally, I'm glad you wrote that other thread, I'll look at it, but I'm afraid that I might find a swamp in the comments section.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Ya... a page from evil bible that has no NT verses in it...

Pick up a New Testament. Turn the pages until you find the corresponding chapters and verses. Peruse.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I've said my piece, I've provided evidence, I've done everything I can. At this point, I'm going to break before the brick wall does, and someday, this god will be as dead as the Greek pantheon. And this discussion will no longer be necessary.

Good riddance.

Pick up a New Testament... Find the four books that actually matter....

only 4 books in the NT matter? What's the point of the rest of the NT? Typical bible worshipper to pick & chose what they want to believe in the bible. "The truth is in the bible, but not all of it useful & true"

Either follow the whole bible, OT & NT as GOD wanted it because it is GOD book, or none of it!

I'm done with this thread. No one has the answers yet we all get our panties in a knot over theories.

originally posted by: Margana
Either follow the whole bible, OT & NT as GOD wanted it because it is GOD book, or none of it!.

How absurd.

Each book in the bible was written in a different time period and for a different reason. Some is myth. Some is folklore. Some is history. Some is allegory. There are many different authors and many different intents for each book ... it's not one big book.

The bible isn't a 'take it all literally or none at all' thing.

And who says it's God's book? The bible? That's circular logic. It's the same thing the muslims do with the Qu'ran ... .'gotta believe the Qu'ran becaues the Qu'ran says so'. Hogwash.

a reply to: Margana

Typical bible worshipper

Now that's something I've never been called before!

thanks for that...

a reply to: Margana

Dear Margana,

I don't know if this is off-topic, feel free to call the Mods. If I screwed up, I want to know about it.

May I suggest you reconsider Akragon's post? In my experience he is not a typical anything in this century. He is reasonably knowledgeable about the Bible and other spiritual writings, but he doesn't worship them.

He has a sharp mind, not infallible (The poor guy still hasn't converted to Catholicism), but he makes challenging points. They can usually be answered, even though sometimes it's an agreement to disagree, but he usually will work with anyone he believes is not vicious or incredibly stupid by his standards.

Please reconsider his posts, and treat his comments as though he is trying to see if people know what they're talking about. Actual conversations with him are valuable.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Margana

Dear Margana,

I don't know if this is off-topic, feel free to call the Mods. If I screwed up, I want to know about it.

May I suggest you reconsider Akragon's post? In my experience he is not a typical anything in this century. He is reasonably knowledgeable about the Bible and other spiritual writings, but he doesn't worship them.

He has a sharp mind, not infallible (The poor guy still hasn't converted to Catholicism), but he makes challenging points. They can usually be answered, even though sometimes it's an agreement to disagree, but he usually will work with anyone he believes is not vicious or incredibly stupid by his standards.

Please reconsider his posts, and treat his comments as though he is trying to see if people know what they're talking about. Actual conversations with him are valuable.

With respect,
Charles1952

Not trying to be a bitch so I'm sorry if it comes off this way, I am a little irked at what you said. I debated on whether or not to respond but I decided I would in order to defend myself. (Oh & I'm not going to go running off to a MOD for your post, imo it's not off topic.)
You are making assumptions about stuff when you clearly haven't read all of my posts. I never called him anything, I assume your referring to the bible worshiper remark that was directed to the user that I was commenting to directly in a quote theme response back, not Akragon.

Akragon asked a question in his OP & I answered back:

what your asking for is not something anyone can provide you with. Your mind is made up on the subject & you see the OT God as being "HOLY" and just in his actions.

People are saying that if God is allegedly super loving & kind then he wouldn't need to go to such extremes as he has done.

There are people who do go and protest at the U.S Supreme Court for executing people. It doesn't matter what is on the person's heart, the person getting executed usually did horrible crimes & some people believe you should die for those crimes. That doesn't mean that EVERYBODY feels the same way. I think death is a release & people who commit violent crimes, should rot in prison. ((I don't meant the prisons that exist today that is hardly a punishment & there are some other beliefs I have that ties in with this but I'm not going to go into big details about it, unless requested, in order to save room/stay on topic))

Don't worry about what other people believe/say, it has 0 impact on you. God wouldn't want you to be so worked up over something so trivial as to what other people believe.

Akragon & I then exchanged a few more words but not about the OP but about him not wasting his time worrying about what other people want him to believe. He should just worry about what he believes in & if it is doing good & not harming others. All other comments I have made since, have never been addressed to Akragon.

I will not change my mind about anything Akragon has said, I stand by "what your asking for is not something anyone can provide you with. Your mind is made up on the subject & you see the OT God as being "HOLY" and just in his actions." It's not a slam against him, it's me saying "I'm not going to play the game of "debate" when it is not a debate."

I have seen you intervene on other users behalf and it reminds me of high school kids. They can't fight their own battles so they call in other people to help them or to try to "defuse" the situation. My advice to you, M.Y.O.B (Mind Your Own Business). Akragon asked for all the stuff he's been getting, if he didn't want it, he shouldn't have created this thread.

I had already said that I am done with thread, I will not waste my time with people who have their minds so greatly made up. I wish to debate with people who are open minded. I will not be coming back again. (This applies to any other user & why I stopped commenting)

With respect,
Margana
(Margana is a Sanskrit name, meaning: Seeker of Truth)

a reply to: Margana

erm...

that wasn't my post... in fact, I don't believe I've ever talked with you in my life, let alone had any exchanges

originally posted by: Margana
Akragon asked for all the stuff he's been getting, if he didn't want it, he shouldn't have created this thread.

Akragon didn't create the thread.

a reply to: Margana

Dear Margana,

I see that I misinterpreted things. It certainly seems that in your post before your reply to me, you quoted a comment from Akragon, then you wrote:

Typical bible worshipper to pick & chose what they want to believe in the bible.

I couldn't imagine to which other person you were referring. Akragon, also, seemed to think you were referring to him.

But, as you tell me that I missed the point, I apologize sincerely.

(I still think Akragon is not a guy to brush over lightly. No, I'm not accusing you of doing that.)

With respect,
Charles1952