Renewing my evil god challenge

a reply to: FlyersFan

There's nothing common about a belief only ~3% of the entire world population believes.

a reply to: Margana

No sarcasm.

Vespers is an evening prayer service in the Orthodox Catholic Tradition,

from Orthodoxwiki - Vespers (εσπερινός) is first service of the Daily Cycle of divine services celebrated in the Orthodox Church. Because the liturgical day begins at sunset, Vespers is traditionally served in the early evening. For many parishes, Vespers is the principal evening service

It's basically a continuation of the Jewish Synagogue tradition, Orthodox Christianity picked up where Judaism left off 2,000 years ago.

and the Ascension of the Lord is the first feast after the celebration of Pascha (Easter / the Resurrection) where we commemorate the day when Jesus ascended up into Heaven as recorded in the Gospel and the Acts - again, from OrthodoxWiki - The Ascension of Jesus Christ is one of the Great Feasts of the Orthodox Church, celebrated forty days after Pascha (and thus always falling on a Thursday—see Paschalion).

Forty days after the Resurrection, while blessing his disciples (Gospel of Luke 24:50-51), Christ ascended into heaven, taking his place at the right hand of the Father (Gospel of Mark 16:19 and Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed).

God bless

a reply to: charles1952

Exactly.

They just don't seem to get the point that God handed down judgements thousands of years ago to very specific individuals or groups of people, but absolutely nothing pertaining to modern or humanity in general, not even since the time of Christ, CERTAINLY not A.D.

The Bible is NOT like the Quran where there are dozens of verses telling us to fight unbelievers and slay infidels. There is NOTHING of the sort in the Holy Scriptures, because they are Holy, as God is HOLY.

Only people who are quick to judge and slow to learn are ready to hand out false judgements upon God, those who truly seek Wisdom are never so juvenile.

God bless Charles

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

God is all and in all,

God IS Life,

God IS Death,

God is the existence,

by saying God condones murder, you're also saying water condones murder, the air condones murder, the earth condones murder.

Why don't we see threads calling mother earth evil for condoning all the dead bodies to be buried in her?

Or why aren't people saying how EVVVVVILLL mother nature is for all the hurricanes that kill people annually?

There is one God who is father of all, over all, through all and within all. —Eph. 4.6

Lamentations 3:37 Who is he who speaks and it comes to pass,
When the Lord has not commanded it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
That woe and well-being proceed?

Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other;
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.

If you are, than He Who Is is willing it. If He Who Is does not will it, it cannot be.

Chew on these verses for a while and meditate on Gods sovereignty, on His omnipresence, on His vastness, His transcendent immanence.

God bless

Why the Father of all?

Why not the Mother of all?

Why is this misogynistic World run by Male dominated religions?

Who are the Prophetess'?

Why not the Mother, The Daughter & The Holy Spirit?


Peace everybody!!!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Have you not understood the Holy Spirit has commonly been referred to as a feminine aspect of God?

Have you not read the Scriptures, where the Spirit of Wisdom is considered a Godly feminine Wisdom?

Have you not heard and understood Christ and His Bride,the Church, and His Love Letter to it recorded in the Song of Solomon?

Do you not know us Catholics reverence the blessed Virgin, the Theotokos, Mary the Mother of Jesus above all other Saints and Angels?

Have you not read in the OT about the great Prophetesses such as Hannah and Judith and Miriam and Ruth, etc?

Have you not read the admonitions of the Apostles to love and bless and cherish our women?

I LOVE women, especially my Wife and my Mother, and it seems God loves His Bride and His Mother a whole lot as well,

God bless

originally posted by: godlover25
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

God is all and in all,

God IS Life,

God IS Death,

God is the existence,

by saying God condones murder, you're also saying water condones murder, the air condones murder, the earth condones murder.

Why don't we see threads calling mother earth evil for condoning all the dead bodies to be buried in her?

Or why aren't people saying how EVVVVVILLL mother nature is for all the hurricanes that kill people annually?

There is one God who is father of all, over all, through all and within all. —Eph. 4.6

Lamentations 3:37 Who is he who speaks and it comes to pass,
When the Lord has not commanded it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
That woe and well-being proceed?

Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other;
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.

If you are, than He Who Is is willing it. If He Who Is does not will it, it cannot be.

Chew on these verses for a while and meditate on Gods sovereignty, on His omnipresence, on His vastness, His transcendent immanence.

God bless

That doesn't sound like someone who is ready to put their faith on the line.

a reply to: godlover25

Have you not understood the Holy Spirit has commonly been referred to as a feminine aspect of God?

No thanks for letting me know...
Stills seems to be a second best type of situation though...

Have you not read the Scriptures, where the Spirit of Wisdom is considered a Godly feminine Wisdom?

I've read the Scriptures, but cannot recall this to be honest.
Thanks again!

Have you not heard and understood Christ and His Bride,the Church, and His Love Letter to it recorded in the Song of Solomon?

There is a few interpretations to be fair!!!

Do you not know us Catholics reverence the blessed Virgin, the Theotokos, Mary the Mother of Jesus above all other Saints and Angels?

Yes I did I was raised Catholic I knew this definitely!!!

Have you not read in the OT about the great Prophetesses such as Hannah and Judith and Miriam and Ruth, etc?

You're well versed it's fantastic!!!
I was speaking metaphorically for today's World...
As in where is the acknowledgement for the Prophetess'???

Have you not read the admonitions of the Apostles to love and bless and cherish our women?

Again I don't recall them, it's been a while since I dusted off my Bible!!!
Thanks for the tip!

I LOVE women, especially my Wife and my Mother, and it seems God loves His Bride and His Mother a whole lot as well,

Thank Goddess there is people like you around, it's what disheartens me the most, how Women are treated in this day & age!!!
The story from Pakistan yesterday breaks my heart!!!


Goddess Bless You Pal!!!
Peace GodLover!!!

DEAR AFTERINFINITY and PREZBO369,

We've spoken before, at greater length than I propose to do here. Our previous conversations have tended to be insulting, and circuitous. Full of non sequiturs and ad hominems. I have been away for awhile and the possibility exists that I may be able to have meaningful conversations with you now.

Consider the young child. He has been told by his parents that he must not cross the street without one of them holding his hand. Is that order still valid, 20 years later? No, the father hasn't changed, the child has developed maturity and judgment.

Or, when the doctor tells him he has to take a particularly nasty medicine. The youth says "NO! I don't wanna!" He carries on until he has to be held and the medicine forced down his throat. Twenty years later, in the same situation, he tells the doctor "You know this tastes like whale droppings?" The doctor says "Yeah, it's rotten stuff. You're only getting it because you need it." The man says OK, takes the stuff, makes a face, and goes over to Mike's to wash the taste out of his mouth.

Or again, the youth comes home saying Billy is bullying him. The dad says "The only way you're going to stop this is to wade into Billy and fight him until he never even thinks of bulllying you again. Here are some lessons and tricks you can use." The kid then pounds on Billy until he's staggering with blood coming out of his nose, and it's finished when Billy gets kicked in a sensitive area.

What changes? Not the dad, but the kid and the situation.

Why is it illogical, therefore, for God to give the "Young Children" of the faith a different set of instructions than He gives to their much older brothers? It would be illogical to give the same instructions to all of his children regardless of the time, culture, situation, and their maturity level. I would worry if God's instructions didn't change. That would be a God I would wonder about.

Can we agree that it is not illogical for God's instructions to change? If you can't agree, I would like to hear your argument that God expects us to cut up cows on our Church's altars. If you argue that He does expect that, it will be you contra mundum and, as you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

and may the Holy Spirit keep you,

just remember, God the Father revealed Himself as a male not because He is a male, but because of the image it portrays, and also because of the Son being the Perfect Image of God,

Baruch 3:35 This is our God;
no other can be compared to him!
36 He found the whole way to knowledge,
and gave her to Jacob his servant
and to Israel whom he loved.
37 Afterward she appeared upon earth
and lived among men.

This Spirit of Wisdom, the one that appeared upon Earth and lived among men, is a prophecy of the Christ.

How's that for a mind boggler: Christ was born of a Virgin, a Virgin who had never known a man had a child, the Incorruptible God became corruptible Man, the Bride who is Unwedded gave birth to the Unapproachable God so He may become an Approachable Man, and to top it all off, the Man was an embodiment of the Spirit of Wisdom, which since times of old has been regarded as feminine.

God is quite a mystery.

a reply to: charles1952

This is EXACTLY what I just told another poster in another thread,

Copy and pasting my post from that thread here for relevance in this reply:

When we were young in our knowledge of God, God gave stories we could understand and relate to in order to teach us timeless truths (Myths of Genesis 1-11 - Old Testament): That He is the One God and His Messiah is the Savior of humanity and the Tree of Life,

Now we are older and He can reveal to us the Truth in a literal way (New Testament)

The history recorded in Genesis 1-11 is not modern history as we understand it, nor is it biology or science. It is Spiritual Hyperbole, a parable if you will. Jesus loves to teach in parable.

Seeing as how the entire Old Testament is a shadow and a type of the good things to come, and the New Testament is the clarification and revelation of said shadows and types, even Christ in His Life embodied this fact, He spoke to His disciples in parable His entire time He was with them, teaching them as they were spiritual babes, as they grew and matured, He could then speak to them plainly:

John 16: 28 I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

29 His disciples said to Him, “See, now You are speaking plainly, and using no figure of speech! 30 Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.”

31 Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe? 32 Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Verse 29 is key.

God bless

originally posted by: godlover25
There's nothing common about a belief only ~3% of the entire world population believes.

You seriously need to go back to school and take a math course. The number of non Christians on the planet who do not believe that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament is more like 6/7 (86%) of the population ... at the very least.

originally posted by: charles1952
DEAR AFTERINFINITY and PREZBO369,

We've spoken before, at greater length than I propose to do here. Our previous conversations have tended to be insulting, and circuitous. Full of non sequiturs and ad hominems. I have been away for awhile and the possibility exists that I may be able to have meaningful conversations with you now.

Consider the young child. He has been told by his parents that he must not cross the street without one of them holding his hand. Is that order still valid, 20 years later? No, the father hasn't changed, the child has developed maturity and judgment.

Or, when the doctor tells him he has to take a particularly nasty medicine. The youth says "NO! I don't wanna!" He carries on until he has to be held and the medicine forced down his throat. Twenty years later, in the same situation, he tells the doctor "You know this tastes like whale droppings?" The doctor says "Yeah, it's rotten stuff. You're only getting it because you need it." The man says OK, takes the stuff, makes a face, and goes over to Mike's to wash the taste out of his mouth.

Or again, the youth comes home saying Billy is bullying him. The dad says "The only way you're going to stop this is to wade into Billy and fight him until he never even thinks of bulllying you again. Here are some lessons and tricks you can use." The kid then pounds on Billy until he's staggering with blood coming out of his nose, and it's finished when Billy gets kicked in a sensitive area.

What changes? Not the dad, but the kid and the situation.

Why is it illogical, therefore, for God to give the "Young Children" of the faith a different set of instructions than He gives to their much older brothers? It would be illogical to give the same instructions to all of his children regardless of the time, culture, situation, and their maturity level. I would worry if God's instructions didn't change. That would be a God I would wonder about.

Can we agree that it is not illogical for God's instructions to change? If you can't agree, I would like to hear your argument that God expects us to cut up cows on our Church's altars. If you argue that He does expect that, it will be you contra mundum and, as you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

With respect,
Charles1952

Okay, so what did God's instructions change to? Have you got the latest edition? Or just the latest translation? The last compilation is composed of material from roughly 2,000 years ago. And if God's instructions have changed, why do we keep referring to the same old stories for advice? Not a single line of scripture that was written in the last twenty centuries. I haven't heard of any updates on his Facebook page. And you'd think that that would be the sort of thing to turn the whole world's head. I mean, you're saying that the instructions have changed, but apparently, the old instructions are still good enough to prohibit abortion and ban gay marriage. Seems like you're picking your scripture here. Only the convenient ones are worth carrying forward, while unspecified updates in instruction may be interpreted into being at a later date. Which explains why you would have no interest in sacrificing cows - although it would certainly be useful in producing burgers. You will continue to say gay marriage is a sin, but somehow, there's no more need for that cow to be sacrificed. For your god's benefit, anyway.

As I said, I can't see the logic. If you want to try again, I'm here.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Using estimates and the latest statistics,

there are ~7 billion people on Earth,

~2.2 billion self identify as Christian in one form or another.

Maybe you should brush off that old Math book, or perhaps surf the web and do some research

a reply to: godlover25
Look at your figures ... that's not 3% of the planet. You fail.
The vast majority of the planet does NOT believe that the OT God is Jesus.
The vast majority of Christians believe Jesus is God.
But even among them, most understand that the OT stories aren't all true.

Go back to school.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Are you serious?

I have to stop replying.

I don't know if your purposely trolling or totally confused.

Either way, obviously what I'm saying is not registering.

God bless

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: godlover25
Look at your figures ... that's not 3% of the planet. You fail.
The vast majority of the planet does NOT believe that the OT God is Jesus.
The vast majority of Christians believe Jesus is God.
But even among them, most understand that the OT stories aren't all true.

Go back to school.

Do you have any sources for that?

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Dear AfterInfinity,

My hope is fading. Please realize that I did not present an argument in formal logic. I used a series of analogies to illustrate a position, then I asked you a few questions. Those questions, unfortunately, you did not see fit to answer.

What did God's instructions change to? Surely you have no trouble seeing that the NT instructions differ from the OT. Why even ask?

Then you question the reliability of the translations of material, all taken from documents from the first 200 years of Christianity. Why? Neither the OP nor I raised that issue. Neither do we depend on it for our comments.

As long as we're on your non sequiturs I have not mentioned anything about abortion or gay marriage. Also claiming that I'm picking my scriptures is completely irrelevant. Have I quoted scripture? No. Then why accuse me of cherry-picking scripture?

You go on about cow sacrifice. Why do the dietary and worship instructions for ancient Jews apply when Christ gave us new ones? As another analogy, the young child is told he can't drink scotch. For his 21st birthday, his dad pours him a glass of scotch. Do you see these things as impossibly, logically flawed?

All of these things have absolutely nothing to do with what I've said. May I please ask you to remain focused on the discussion? I really don't want to believe that you have no interest in a discussion, except for the joy of arguing, but what other conclusion is there?

Why do we keep referring to the same old stories for advice?

Well, why do you? Go to Proverbs and tell me that they are all outdated and useless and that you don't follow any of them. You can't. Try to tell me that the Psalms aren't an accurate reflection of today's souls which cry for vengeance, and dance in triumph. They are, and rejecting them as inaccurate means rejecting what makes us human.

Now, would you please answer my questions?

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Dear AfterInfinity,

My hope is fading. Please realize that I did not present an argument in formal logic. I used a series of analogies to illustrate a position, then I asked you a few questions. Those questions, unfortunately, you did not see fit to answer.

What did God's instructions change to? Surely you have no trouble seeing that the NT instructions differ from the OT. Why even ask?

I answered most of your questions. Maybe you didn't read carefully enough. And how did they change? Same exact stories, same exact people, same exact morals.

Then you question the reliability of the translations of material, all taken from documents from the first 200 years of Christianity. Why? Neither the OP nor I raised that issue. Neither do we depend on it for our comments.

As long as we're on your non sequiturs I have not mentioned anything about abortion or gay marriage. Also claiming that I'm picking my scriptures is completely irrelevant. Have I quoted scripture? No. Then why accuse me of cherry-picking scripture?

Ra-tata-ta-tata-ta-ta! Hahaha. I did not question the translations, I was saying that the latest edition of his instructions is only a translation of the original. In other words, what we have now is nothing more or less than what we had 2,000 years ago. Actually, take that back. We have less, because dozens of books were scrapped as "non canon".

My mentioning your views on abortion and gay marriage are very much relevant in the manners I described already. Maybe my irrelevance is actually your failure to properly read my posts and comprehend them. Gay marriage is a sin, but you'll eat pork. Abortion is a sin, but you wear mixed fibers. And all of those instructions were recorded 2,000 years ago. If gay marriage still applies, so does everything else. But no, we'd rather pick and choose scripture.

You go on about cow sacrifice. Why do the dietary and worship instructions for ancient Jews apply when Christ gave us new ones? As another analogy, the young child is told he can't drink scotch. For his 21st birthday, his dad pours him a glass of scotch. Do you see these things as impossibly, logically flawed?

All of these things have absolutely nothing to do with what I've said. May I please ask you to remain focused on the discussion? I really don't want to believe that you have no interest in a discussion, except for the joy of arguing, but what other conclusion is there?

I have nothing else to add. I've already answered these questions, and then you act confused before pushing me for a different answer. Not gonna happen.

Well, why do you? Go to Proverbs and tell me that they are all outdated and useless and that you don't follow any of them. You can't. Try to tell me that the Psalms aren't an accurate reflection of today's souls which cry for vengeance, and dance in triumph. They are, and rejecting them as inaccurate means rejecting what makes us human.

Now, would you please answer my questions?

Those are the old instructions, the only instructions they teach in church. Everything discussed in church revolves around centuries old stories, stories reflecting those instructions. The Bible has no stories from this century, or last century, or even the century before that. Old instructions, not new. All of your morals and those of Godlover, all of your commandments and advice and spiritual guidance is based in events that took place, words that were written and spoken, before your ancestors were born. That's what I call old instructions. There is no such thing as "new instructions" because there is no "new bible". Unless you're writing one?

I can't make this any simpler for you. You and Godlover are asking for modern examples of such commands, but there are none. And the proof is in front of you every Sunday. Interesting that you should choose to focus on only the present. And are we ignoring all the people who have killed and raped and cheated and stolen because "God told me to"? Are those people just raving lunatics? By whose determination? How do you know God didn't tell them to? Because that conflicts with your beliefs.

As I said, it's a matter of how you "feel about it".

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Dear AfterInfinity,

I realize you are busy with little time to spare, therefore I will ask a few questions which can be answered "Yes or No." If you are really short for time, feel free to answer them "Y or N."

1.) Is it logically possible to reach the conclusion that God's instructions (rules or commands or whatevers) can change depending on the people he is speaking to and the situations they are in?

2.) Do you believe that logic compels us to sacrifice cattle on altars if we don't want to violate God's laws for us?

3.) Have I said anything in this thread about abortion, gay marriage, or anything else being a sin?

4.) Have I quoted any scripture at all?

5.) Do you believe any of the writings of the Old Testament have any bearing or relevance today?

6.) Do you believe any of the writings of the New Testament have any bearing or relevance today?

7.) You mentioned that God hasn't given us any new writings in 2,000 years. Have you found anything in Christian writings indicating that God was going to, wanted to, or should?

8.) Do you believe that any

words that were written and spoken, before your ancestors were born. That's what I call old instructions.

are not relevant or true today?

I'm simply asking you to type eight numbers and eight letters. You can type it all on one line.

I'm doing this for three reasons. I want to find if we have any common ground to begin building on. I want to find your attitude toward truth and logic. I want to find out if discussion is possible.

With respect,
Charles1952