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From ancient paganism, to modern Christianity; Satan has filled the religions of men with mockery/false symbolism.
OK, seems you admit to the doctrines of Christianity being tainted.
I guess my question should be, what makes you think that your take on it is demonic free?
What is actually required of God is the sacrifice of the self (my way of thinking, which is naturally in opposition to God's), which was perfectly exemplified by God sacrificing Himself (His son Jesus) physically, so we can learn to sacrifice ourselves spiritually (in the mind).
So then do you think the whole thing was just an object lesson with no real intrinsic meaning?
That is actually how it is explained in the New Testament, that God forgives people by just forgetting about those sins.
I really don't know where anyone would ever get the idea that God is loving or forgiving. The God of the Bible is clearly a God of Wrath. (See the verses where God destroys the world or Sodom and Gomorrah.) And if God was so forgiving, why not forgive "us" for our sins instead of "sacrificing His only Son"? Yeah, I really don't know how people are this foolish.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: AfterInfinityThe proceedures described would seem primitave to us today.
Seems rather primitive. And to think we still invest in such principles today...our evolution is positively crawling.
What I was doing is looking at somewhere else besides 1 John where this word is found, that puts it in a context where we can derive its meaning.
The conclusion to me is that it means atonement, rather than "atoning sacrifice" as it is translated in some English Bibles.
It is reconciliation, and it is something a priest does as intermediary between all the parties involved, it is not the sacrifice itself which only serves a periphery role.
There is some leeway in what you can conceivably translate the verses as, and get away with it without accusations of outright fraud, and I think translations like the King James took full advantage of that, under orders by the king, to produce a Bible that supported preexisting church doctrine.
This post also brings up another important point, as to corruption or altering of scripture in the Christian Bible: language and translation….
It isn't "fluff" as long as there are "wolves" about, trying to convince people that you don't have to be good, or even that trying to be good is so much "works" that denies Grace.
All the scholars and arguments, and people discussing the bible and its meanings, its all pointless fluff, the truth is so simple. Good people. Bad people. Good people want to rule the earth and make it good. Bad people want to rule the earth and make it bad. It will be a messy mixture of both until one side does whats needed to be done to win or lose.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
That is actually how it is explained in the New Testament, that God forgives people by just forgetting about those sins.
Of course that is predicated on the person first repenting, which means "sinning no more", as Jesus said.
This is where the problem, I think, comes in, giving up on sin that can seem like just "the way life is".
Sort of like the hound, Sandor Clegane, who says, "I just see things the way they are".
It is something good people (though some bad apples in religion), preoccupy themselves with, as a little slice of heaven. Or to be cognizant of what the great work is working towards. To know they are on the side of Good, on this planets moral war.
There needs to be 'the singularity', 'the anomaly', 'the one', 'the savior', 'the messiah', 'Jesus', to summarize the absolute potentials of Gods thoughts and will, or natures potentials for mans achievements on earth, and attempt to lead and usher humanity into a new age.
All the scholars and arguments, and people discussing the bible and its meanings, its all pointless fluff, the truth is so simple. Good people. Bad people.
Good people want to rule the earth and make it good. Bad people want to rule the earth and make it bad. It will be a messy mixture of both until one side does whats needed to be done to win or lose.
. . of what?
...but believe what you want, just don't say you haven't been warned.
There needs to be 'the singularity', 'the anomaly', 'the one', 'the savior', 'the messiah', 'Jesus', to summarize the absolute potentials of Gods thoughts and will, or natures potentials for mans achievements on earth, and attempt to lead and usher humanity into a new age.
originally posted by: Evanzsayz
a reply to: tetra50
Sacrifice is the greatest honor any human can achieve. We die so others can live. I'm not talking about religious ceremony sacrifice, I'm talking about putting your life in serious danger to save someone. I would do it a million times over.
originally posted by: manna2
Why is it so difficult to contemplate the adjudication aspects of the sacrifice of the lamb? Read hebrews. It is all about the law and legal aspect of this sacrifice. The why's and reasoning for the sacrificial lamb. It is reallynot that complicated. At least not compared to mans laws and reasonings. Yah gave 10 commandments. Men cried and complzined so Moses elaborated on it to the tune of over 600 laws elaborating on the 10. Now 4,000+/- odd years later we have entire law libraries trying to explain law. Shoot man, if congress doesn't pass alot of new laws every session they are criticized for doing nothing. Why is Yah supposed to not care about propitiation of the law?
Maybe because there isn't any.
Why is it so difficult to contemplate the adjudication aspects of the sacrifice of the lamb?
The "law and legal aspect" is a metaphorical device to explain it in terms understandable to someone already well versed in the Jewish ceremonies connected to the temple.
Read hebrews. It is all about the law and legal aspect of this sacrifice. The why's and reasoning for the sacrificial lamb.