For God so loveth the world...

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

In other words, you don't want real discussion; you simply want to claim things that aren't accurate, and misrepresent Scriptures to try and support your silly claims. I suspected that when I read the opening post. It's well conformed now.

The only conspiracy in this thread is from you.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Why is it you guys always have to express that you somehow know what my intentions are, what I am thinking and how evil? You're wishful thinking leads us nowhere. So leave your draconian accusations and speculations and discuss the subject at hand. Unlike you I don't use ATS to preach and do PR for some Superhero. I am here to pull some Truth out so people can see it.

For instance: Jesus promises that "the meek" aka "the stupid" will inherit the Earth. Now when does people inherit anything? Well, when the person they are to inherit, or in this case, the planet, dies. Ok. Earth dies (perhaps in a few billion years) meek people inherit a bunch of dust floating around in space.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
As an atheist, I have never claimed this. I don't hold a special knowledge...

Unlike some "knowledge" I could mention.

My fault. Didn't make myself too clear there. I was referring to the knowledge which is usually delivered by men in fancy dress from behind a pulpit. Bishops, rabbis, priests, imams etc etc all preach as though they have some secret insight into that which is, according to their own belief system, "unknowable."
That's the "special knowledge" to which I was referring.

Why is that your opinion?

I...honestly couldn't say. Like I said in my first post, I've struggled with faith a lot. I've questioned and thought about it and, by extension, what it means to me/us, for a very long time, and ultimately I believe that there is a God.
And by "God" I mean an intelligent force for creation. I don't necessarily believe in the omni-everything that goes with it, but I do believe the formation of life, on our world at least (until we find our intergalactic counterparts I couldn't even speculate) was the result of an intelligent force which acted through Jesus to try and teach us a way to live our lives happily.
My main reason for believing this, I think, is something I said in the post you replied to. Jesus' commandments. Now, as much as I love humanity and everything we've achieved, we are without a doubt very easy to lead by the nose. If the words of Jesus were truly the words of a man/group of men who wanted to keep us leashed, they wouldn't be "Think more, and love one another," which is the meaning I derive from his commandments.

I'm not a Bible supporter, by any means. I've read it, it's a great piece of literature. But is it fact? Definitely not.
Faith is faith. We all have it, it's just the object of our faith that differs. And, as I said before, people who look to the church/mosque/synagogue for the answers to the questions that bug them are looking in the wrong place. Everything humanity knows is laid out for anyone to access. And the deeper questions, the ones that pertain to ourselves, can only be answered by ourselves.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The above quote, often referred to as 'the Little Bible', John 3:16, is one of the most cryptic verses in the good book. It's not only showing corruption in motion, "if you say you believe in Jesus you will receive the world for eternity", John displays the exact same Modus Operandi as Satan on his encounter in Luke 4: "Worship me and I will give you the world". Is everlasting life necessarily a good thing, and what about the part where the meek shall inherit the earth? Well ofcourse they will, when all they have to do is to bend their knees to the devil. To obstruct justice by taking bribes from a man you know from fables and urban myths? Dirty Christians! The empty bliss that fills their hollow pearly eyes, willing to forgive one crime worse than the other and cry 'alleilujah with raised arms when the critters take the stage as the dollar buckets are passing:

-Emphasis mine

This is precisely how Satan works...If Satan can't get you to believe that he doesn't exist....the next best option is to get you to believe that he is God....This is why we see counterfeit trinitys (beast, false prophet, antichrist) among other counterfeits...

And then there's that clever little ploy of distorting scripture....which oddly enough is quite apparent in most interpretations or "understandings" of John 3:16...
John 3:16 happens to be one of THE MOST misapplied verses in all of scripture...in that all too often "the world" is misapplied to mean something other than what it actually is contextually....

Satan works in these ways(but not limited to)

1)Prevention....(from hearing the word, the seed & sower parable)
2)Perversion....(false teaching/doctrines...II Cor ch11, vs13 "For such are false prophets, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ.")
3)Denial of scriptural authority...(II Tim ch4, "They shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables. The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but after their own lusts shall heap to themselves (false)teachers, tickling their ears.
4)Denial of the deity of Christ...( I John ch4..."test the spirits..." - any spirit that denies Jesus is Christ, God come in the flesh, is spirit of antichrist)
5)Denial of salvation by grace...(book of Galatians...Paul argues vehemently that salvation comes by grace not by works...)
6)Denial of the 2nd coming...(II Peter ch3...false teachers will say "where is the promise of His coming, for since the fathers fell asleep all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.")


Honestly, there are too many methods being used to even begin to mention them all...
To anyone that has an eye let them see....

A2D

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes


For instance: Jesus promises that "the meek" aka "the stupid" will inherit the Earth. Now when does people inherit anything? Well, when the person they are to inherit, or in this case, the planet, dies. Ok. Earth dies (perhaps in a few billion years) meek people inherit a bunch of dust floating around in space.

Hopefully I can clarify this for you...

The meek can better be understood by first examining Psalm 37:11...."The meek shall possess the land, and delight themselves in abundant prosperity." ...which is probably the origin for Matthew 5:5...but it begs the question...what is "meekness"? Well, let's take a look at a parallel...Psalm 37:9..."For evildoers will be cut off, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land -emphasis mine...

With this parallel...it's rather clear that those who wait for the Lord....or the "meek" will inherit or possess the land...So those who wait for the Lord and "the meek" are one in the same....If we read verses 5-8 we get a better picture of who those people are and what characteristics they may exhibit....

"5Commit your way to the Lord;
trust in him and he will do this:
6 He will make your righteous reward shine like the dawn,
your vindication like the noonday sun.
7 Be still before the Lord
and wait patiently for him;
do not fret when people succeed in their ways,
when they carry out their wicked schemes.
8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
do not fret—it leads only to evil."

Hopefully with this you have a better picture of what it means to be "meek"...It does not by any accounts mean "stupid"...

And on another note...Inheritance happens when the possessor perishes....Not when the object of possession dies....You do not inherit real estate when the real estate is destroyed...You inherit real estate when the owner is deceased...

A2D

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Don't you know that both Good and Evil comes from God?

God is good, He’s extremely good.

You can either believe the Father of Lights or you can believe the father of lies.

Your choice...

God warned us WAY ahead of time because He KNOWS whats really going on.

Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. ~ James 1:16-26

The father of lies is well acquainted with the Father of Lights. He fears him. We need to know that “every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of Lights, in whom there is no shadow of turning.” So this means to me, despite my past, my failures and every weakness I carry in my being, God ‘s love for me never changes. He always loves me.

God’s love is indescribable and it’s impossible to imagine it’s depth and magnitude. When the Father of Light casts even a glance on the father of lies – the truth is exposed, and the lies that he’s crafted lose all their power. What is the truth? The truth is that satan is a liar who is out to steal, kill and destroy all people. God says I am His Beloved (truth). Satan says I’m not worthy (lie). Who I choose to believe will make the difference in how I live my life.

Father of Lights VS the father of lies

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Why is it you guys always have to express that you somehow know what my intentions are, what I am thinking and how evil? You're wishful thinking leads us nowhere. So leave your draconian accusations and speculations and discuss the subject at hand. Unlike you I don't use ATS to preach and do PR for some Superhero. I am here to pull some Truth out so people can see it.

For instance: Jesus promises that "the meek" aka "the stupid" will inherit the Earth. Now when does people inherit anything? Well, when the person they are to inherit, or in this case, the planet, dies. Ok. Earth dies (perhaps in a few billion years) meek people inherit a bunch of dust floating around in space.

Meek is not equal to stupid. my opinions are not "draconian". Your claims are as much "preaching" as anything posted by anyone else regarding religion.

Your other statement makes literally no sense at all. If you inherit money, the money has to die? If you inherit a car, the car has to die? No, the earth doesn't have to die for people to inherit it. Utterly silly.

Please don't spend time responding, because I am quite done on this thread. We aren't going to agree, and debating back and forth serves no purpose for the thread.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Don't you know that both Good and Evil comes from God?

God is good, He’s extremely good.

Lamentation 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and bad come?"

Who is ultimately good is also ultimately evil. So should we love God or should we fear him? Or should we simply remember our lot and work the Earth and eat our food with sweaty, sunburnt chins? Just a thought...

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Meek is not equal to stupid. my opinions are not "draconian". Your claims are as much "preaching" as anything posted by anyone else regarding religion.

Your other statement makes literally no sense at all. If you inherit money, the money has to die? If you inherit a car, the car has to die? No, the earth doesn't have to die for people to inherit it. Utterly silly.

Please don't spend time responding, because I am quite done on this thread. We aren't going to agree, and debating back and forth serves no purpose for the thread.

Ah, and there we are, THAT'S why it is so important for you that Jesus had to die! You want the bounty! The BIG score! Now, why didn't I think of that, ha? I must be meeker than I thought. So how long do we have to wait until he dies and we get what's rightfully ours? Oh, that's right, I blew it, I don't get to inherit the Jebus. Dang!

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Satan does like most Christians do, and what I have demonstrated in this thread, quoting out of context and building a case on nothing that will eventually affect everyone. To take a flame out of the fire, to light cold coal from hell and put fire to meek people's desires and wants. So what's new.....

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
My brother and I, while getting drunk during the hurricanes of 2004, came to the realization that only satan could allow someone to commit so many atrocities, only to ask forgiveness for those misdeeds and do it again and again with a clear conscience.

You can see through the lies sometimes, most choose not to for the sake of fitting in with the ignorant majority.

When a person asks forgiveness they are supposed to be sorry. Being sorry means not doing it again. Saying "sorry God, please forgive me, and then doing it again isn't really sorry. I know because I have done it too much in life. Humans do that often. Eventually, if a person slaps themselves out of the oblivion that keeps them repeating the same mistake, they can stop doing the bad thing and then being sorry is a proven point.
I know personally that just being sorry and not stopping whatever it is, is asking for trouble, not eternal forgiveness. (not to mean that is something you didn't already know, I just felt like getting it off my chest Now I just need to carry that out myself PS I don't see how a person can have a clear conscious until they have stopped the thing they feel bad about. I'm pretty sure that is how it is supposed to work.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Satan does like most Christians do....

Satan does exactly what God warned us about...

If God warns us, there is a VERY good reason for it.

Ignoring those warnings come with a great price.

Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. ~ James 1:16-26

Just like the quote above says... who you choose to believe WILL make a difference in how you live life.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Isn't it Paul, the Church's favorite, who says Satan can take any form, even that of a shining angel of light? Where do you think Satan gets his kicks? Where does he find people who are an easy prey, who'll believe anything, forgive anything, and even find sense in murder as long as it's God doing the atrocity, eh? Genocide is OK as long as God ordered it and an angel carried it out, right, sounds familiar? Human sacrifice is OK as long as God approves, right? That old book you cherish so much, it has gotten to yer'all, can't you smell the bloody sulphur as you sift through the pages looking for some weapon to ward off evil? Evil you didn't know of until you found that Big Black Book. Paul has a few things to say about that effect too.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It is not the Bible that we believe but the writer and revealer of the Bible.

The Bible is not the work of human hands.

"The Bible is no mere book, but it's a living creature with a power that conquers all who oppose it." Napoleon

If we misuse the Bible to support our pet theories and agendas, we WILL fall victim to the lies of Satan.

The Pharisees and Sadducees also used the scriptures to bring death, just like some religious leaders do today.

In fact, the Bible is called the dead letter when it is not brought to life by the Holy Spirit.

When Jesus quoted scriptures it brought LIFE.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The Bible is not the work of human hands.

I can't believe I am reading this. YES, in every way possible, the Bible like all other books were written or printed by men. Besides, the Bible is a collection of 66 different books written over a span of about 1000 years (about 800BC for the earliest texts like Job to about 100 AD for the most recent codexes, collected like a compendium of early Hebrew history, and sown together into one volume. By bookbinders, not angels. Good luck in life, you'll need it.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The Bible is not the work of human hands.

I can't believe I am reading this. YES, in every way possible, the Bible like all other books were written or printed by men. Besides, the Bible is a collection of 66 different books written over a span of about 1000 years (about 800BC for the earliest texts like Job to about 100 AD for the most recent codexes, collected like a compendium of early Hebrew history, and sown together into one volume. By bookbinders, not angels. Good luck in life, you'll need it.

Why the forum avenging persecution? Does it bother you that you will be dead and long forgotten while generations from now people will still be reading the Bible? All this stuff you are writing will be for nothing yet the words of the Bible will endure as it always does.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
I can't believe I am reading this.

I'm sure many have wondered the same exact thing while reading some of YOUR rants...

I imagine they are also wondering why so many like yourself refuse to believe that scripture is God-breathed, while the laws of probability have PROVEN that the Bible is in fact a construction of God.

Biblical prophecy has proven to be 100% accurate and the possibility of anyone fulfilling them by chance is nonexistent.

originally posted by: Alpha Arietis
The Bible proves itself true by supernaturally predicting everything that would happen to the nation of Israel throughout the entire pageant of human history. Anyone that examines both history and the prophecies of the Bible with a critical and unbiased eye will come to this conclusion. However, there are very few among both scholars and laymen that have actually pursued this endeavor. Most folks make up their minds about the book's validity based on popular misconceptions about it's claims and contents, rather than any kind of profound comprehension of them. Unfortunately, many of these misconceptions are perpetuated by churches and Christians.

"Perhaps the most compelling of evidences demonstrating that the Bible is the word of God is its unswerving ability to accurately predict future events, often in minute details. Specific prophesies are conspicuously absent from the 26 other religious books that claim to be scripture, including the Muslim's Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, and Buddhist writings. This in itself should be a major eye-opener to the honest skeptic. " Accuracy Of Prophecy

Professor Emeritus of Science at Westmont College, Peter Stoner, has calculated the probability of one man fulfilling the major prophecies made concerning the Messiah. The estimates were worked out by twelve different classes representing some 600 university students.

After examining only eight different prophecies (Idem, 106), they conservatively estimated that the chance of one man fulfilling all eight prophecies was one in 10^17.

Mathematical Probability that Jesus is the Christ

Another attestation to the Bible’s divine authorship is the vast number of detailed biblical prophecies that have come true exactly as foretold. We see the psalmist, for example, telling of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ nearly a thousand years before it occurred (Psalm 22), and hundreds of years before crucifixion was even invented! Simply put, it would be impossible for human beings to have seen so far into the future with such precision and accuracy hundreds of times. Indeed, it would be completely illogical to believe these proven prophecies are anything other than the work of God. Incidentally, and amazingly, probability experts tell us the mathematical odds of just forty-eight prophecies regarding one person (i.e. Christ) coming true as foretold are one in ten to the 157th power! Is the Bible a fairy tale?

Over a quarter of all the verses in the Bible contain a prediction about the future. Altogether, 737 separate forecasts are made, from some only mentioned once, to others mentioned hundreds of times.

Of these, 594 (over 80%) have already come true. Since those that have not, are all concerned with the end of the world, which obviously has not happened yet, the Bible has actually achieved 100% accuracy. All that could have taken place already has done so, which should be ample grounds for confidence that the rest will also be fulfilled. www.danielpipes.org...

a reply to: TinfoilTP

There's a sea of difference between reading and gaining godly insight and promoting a faultfree godwritten copy of some book written by mere men with dubious intentions over a period of severe nationalistic renaissance nearly 3000 years ago after the Babylonians got soft and lost it's grip.

Besides, my contribution to science and progress will endure an antiquarian curiousity from the bronze age. But keep reading the book, it's a good one for blamers and it keeps you all soft and easy. Unlike Christians, scientists don't burn books. So the Bible will survive. Oh yes, it will. And I will cherish it. But don't come dragging the old dead cat in claiming it is anything but Satan himself. Bible is Satan. Period.

A house divided cannot stand.

We have the words of Christ telling us to pray for those that persecute us and give to those that ask and forgive those who need forgiveness and love everyone including our enemies....
Those are clearly and distinctly...GOOD things. The bible is most certainly NOT satan, but I will admit he sure does like to use it...

A2D