For God so loveth the world...

"For God so loveth the world,
that he hath given his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him,
should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The above quote, often referred to as 'the Little Bible', John 3:16, is one of the most cryptic verses in the good book. It's not only showing corruption in motion, "if you say you believe in Jesus you will receive the world for eternity", John displays the exact same Modus Operandi as Satan on his encounter in Luke 4: "Worship me and I will give you the world". Is everlasting life necessarily a good thing, and what about the part where the meek shall inherit the earth? Well ofcourse they will, when all they have to do is to bend their knees to the devil. To obstruct justice by taking bribes from a man you know from fables and urban myths? Dirty Christians! The empty bliss that fills their hollow pearly eyes, willing to forgive one crime worse than the other and cry 'alleilujah with raised arms when the critters take the stage as the dollar buckets are passing:

"We believe in the perfect sacrifice, the sacrificial lamb Jesus Christ,
the Lion of Judah, the Horn of Salvation, who was killed,
but he came back to life! So will we! Only unconditional
faith is accepted. If you don't believe in him you will go
straight to Hell where you will be tormented forever,
while we will live in eternal bliss in the clouds!"
~ Chris, the imaginary Christian

Are you sure? And Christians don't see how this whole Church-Christian-Jesus-Cult is exactly what the Apocalypse describes about the Satan charade-- the Beast-- and it's followers, which makes up most of the world. Jesus warns about the European kingdoms and the Church in Revelation and the false teachings and diabolic religion attributed to him that has enslaved billions of people in false bliss. So to the Christians out there, it is allowed to think, not just read and memorise.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim John 3:16 is commentary by the person who wrote ''John''. Besides why would God love the world and then supposedly inspire somebody to write ''don't love the world and anything in it'' (1John). Aren't christians supposed to love what God loves?

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
a reply to: Utnapisjtim John 3:16 is commentary by the person who wrote ''John''. Besides why would God love the world and then supposedly inspire somebody to write ''don't love the world and anything in it'' (1John). Aren't christians supposed to love what God loves?

I guess that when they are kings of the world, such petty details doesn't matter, what was it one of them said, it is part of the carte blance thingie that comes with being conquering and victorious and sons of God.


ETA: So God only loved the world enough to sacrifice a mere One of his kids for the cause of these silly antiquarian cultists whose running around scared lotless into intellectual oblivion and fear of Hell. If you can believe that story, God will bloodywell give your the world. For it was all bollocks. No magic wine, no walking on water, no walking through walls, it was all a display in the liberal arts and carpentry. And though Jesus was dead according to the doctors at the time, no sane physician would declear Jesus dead at any point as the story curls up and reveal it's self.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

"Carte blance thingie" Eh?

I see what you are saying in your wonderful style and agree with the point you raised.

Ever since the Nag Hammadi scrolls turned up I think the \Catholic Church has been waiting for Christians to open their eyes and start to think . From these and other scrolls we know Christ was a Gnostic and not a christian as one has Christianity and all its historical acts today.

The huge subtlety between the two approaches to belief are totally opposite and Gnosticism excludes the use of a priest because the object of what Christ supposedly taught was that one worked to become equal to him and then would be accepted by him as his brother. 'Ye'r all sinners is', and has always been a load of catholic twoddle simply passed to them by the Jews and then spread throughout the brands of Judiasm,christianity and Islam. What we have today is purely a way for unelected men to gain a position of power in society and politics, nothing of any true benefit for any of us as all are poisonous due to the profession they choose. Each individual needs to look to their own spirituality not pass their buck to another, however keen to give themselves credibility over the rest of us.

The irony is that if religion is real in its teachings about what we are to aim for, but we have all followed the wrong path, how many of our souls will actually make it anywhere?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
a reply to: Utnapisjtim John 3:16 is commentary by the person who wrote ''John''. Besides why would God love the world and then supposedly inspire somebody to write ''don't love the world and anything in it'' (1John). Aren't christians supposed to love what God loves?

So God only loved the world enough to sacrifice a mere One of his kids .....

The christian claim is that Jesus was the 'ultimate final perfect sacrifice' for sin. Their logic is that it is based off old testament animal sacrifices for sin. What they wont like is when someone pointing out that in ezekiel, it is written that the animal sacrifices are prophesied to return in the distant future, after the yet-to-occur Gog magog war.. So the question is, if Jesus was the 'perfect sacrifice'....why would God go back to accepting animal sacrifices? I have already made a thread about this, and the typical christian respose was that its a special thing for jews. Well, then if jews of the future get to redeem themselves of their sins the old fashioned way, then why do the 'jews for jesus' cult put on jewish costumes and try to convert the poor jews?

My brother and I, while getting drunk during the hurricanes of 2004, came to the realization that only satan could allow someone to commit so many atrocities, only to ask forgiveness for those misdeeds and do it again and again with a clear conscience.

You can see through the lies sometimes, most choose not to for the sake of fitting in with the ignorant majority.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Who said the 'ultimate final sacrifice'? Again its an idea that has become a belief and is fixed in tradition. Still doesn't give it any root to the truth.

I notice that Muslims still include Jesus as a prophet so obviously, that gives him the status equal with Mohammad as its fair to comment that they are both God's prophets as indeed must all the other individuals, whom are considered to be prophets, have been.

I suspect that the idea of a sacrifice, whatever is actually sacrificed comes from ancient pagan beliefs upon which all the desert religions are based, no matter how they play down their pagan root.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
You can see through the lies sometimes, most choose not to for the sake of fitting in with the ignorant majority.

The circular logic framework in the NT I refer to as Midaistic rhetorics makes it so that every chapter, verse or word is cross referenced for easy defence. No matter what you quote from the bible, there are tons of other quotes to back it up. It's bollocks. Great stories though. And a literary gem of unseen beauty. But bollocks.

Reverend Joseph Gardenier of the Global Healing Society pointed out that the bible was nothing more than a story book when I talked to him before the religiously skewed government, both local and national completely destroyed him.

Couldn'ta been that those who occupy such positions disagreed with what he said on a purely religious basis and had possessed the power to basically crucify him and everything he stood for now, could it?.

Read up on him, he was trying to do some great things and had a following until religion came into it, his organization was destroyed from the inside by petty religious differences, jealousy and greed.

There is no duality of man and whatever that is in the sky....

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
There is no duality of man and whatever that is in the sky....

This all day long. I guess we can thank Zoroastrianism for breaking mankind from the horrible grip of polytheism and pushing us towards the world of dualism.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

"For God so loveth the world,
that he hath given his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him,
should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The quote doesn't really say anything else than that "God has given Jesus those who believe in him and manages to obtain eternal life (since they will need that to get to him)". People like Plato and Shakespeare. Not John Doe and his wife Jane whose only acheivements were to never miss a sunday service. If you want to join Jesus' posse, you better re-invent the dynamite or figure out how we can live on the moon using an orange, a sardine, two glasses of water and a kilowatt of power a day.

I'm particularly enjoying how you pointed out that both Satan and Jesus offer the same exact thing for the same exact price. A most curious overlap, that is.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
I'm particularly enjoying how you pointed out that both Satan and Jesus offer the same exact thing for the same exact price. A most curious overlap, that is.

Hehe thought noone'd noticed

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
I'm particularly enjoying how you pointed out that both Satan and Jesus offer the same exact thing for the same exact price. A most curious overlap, that is.

Hehe thought noone'd noticed

That's the way they prefer it. Can't notice too much or the whole story falls apart. It's like the whole "it makes sense if you don't think about it" joke.

We tend to look at all the short term effects of our decisions but i wonder what the long term effects would be in a world where some of your op is true? What would it take to get to heaven or the place that is controlling all this? Would you have to be good or bad? What is the problem you have with bowing to someone that has control of everything if you knew the score before you came?

a reply to: AfterInfinity

After I realised that thing I had a moment much alike how that fellow in your action-driven avatar seems to feel. I just couldn't bloody believe it had been written there for two millennia without someone noticing. Ok. Satan owns the world wants to give it to Jesus, who is a complete arse and refuses. God then breaks in and hands over the world to those who are meek enough to believe Jesus or anyone can even remotely claim ownership to the world. So what we are left with, which is so apparent, is that every damn Christian runs around believing they own the world in power of their blind allegiance to a certain carpenter with a bright head and a sharp tongue who made havoc in the Middle East 2000 years ago. Hm. So what's new?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
We tend to look at all the short term effects of our decisions but i wonder what the long term effects would be in a world where some of your op is true? What would it take to get to heaven or the place that is controlling all this? Would you have to be good or bad? What is the problem you have with bowing to someone that has control of everything if you knew the score before you came?

It's not about bowing at all. Thing is if the world is so horrible that neither Satan, Jesus or God is willing to take responsibility for it... well, what would anyone want to do with it. So, as the Good Book says: "Blessed are the stupid, they shall inherit the Earth". Some blessing, hah? It's the same Earth that was cursed by God after the incident with the Tree.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
What would it take to get to heaven or the place that is controlling all this? Would you have to be good or bad?

Well, I guess that in order to reach the stars, someone would have to believe it is actually possible to reach them, or he or she would simply give up too soon. Faith is an invaluable property in any science or quest for eternal fame and to be seated in marble among Newton, Goethe, Buddha and the Baptist in the mausoleum of everlasting life, you will have to contribute to that infinite corpus of knowledge. Faith alone? Good luck.

All true wisdom boils down to: "Damn, it's happening again!"

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: AfterInfinity

After I realised that thing I had a moment much alike how that fellow in your action-driven avatar seems to feel. I just couldn't bloody believe it had been written there for two millennia without someone noticing. Ok. Satan owns the world wants to give it to Jesus, who is a complete arse and refuses. God then breaks in and hands over the world to those who are meek enough to believe Jesus or anyone can even remotely claim ownership to the world. So what we are left with, which is so apparent, is that every damn Christian runs around believing they own the world in power of their blind allegiance to a certain carpenter with a bright head and a sharp tongue who made havoc in the Middle East 2000 years ago. Hm. So what's new?

It is worth noting that however weak a story it makes, Jesus' philosophies are still worth a good look. All the demigod and messiah and son of god stuff is just filler.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: AfterInfinity

After I realised that thing I had a moment much alike how that fellow in your action-driven avatar seems to feel. I just couldn't bloody believe it had been written there for two millennia without someone noticing. Ok. Satan owns the world wants to give it to Jesus, who is a complete arse and refuses. God then breaks in and hands over the world to those who are meek enough to believe Jesus or anyone can even remotely claim ownership to the world. So what we are left with, which is so apparent, is that every damn Christian runs around believing they own the world in power of their blind allegiance to a certain carpenter with a bright head and a sharp tongue who made havoc in the Middle East 2000 years ago. Hm. So what's new?

It is worth noting that however weak a story it makes, Jesus' philosophies are still worth a good look. All the demigod and messiah and son of god stuff is just filler.

Absolutely. Just too bad it's rolled up in all that miracle pastry. The Gospels were the great entertainment franchises back then. They were different seasons of the esotheric poetry we know as the Jesus tradition, but the wisdom in it is gathered from everything from Thoth to Buddha, Plato, Pythagoras and their band-buses and well it turns out nothing he said is truely unique to him.