The Terrible Fear of Paying the Poor Too Much

I do not claim to know what the answer is to the current wage gap, but I will say that there isn't a single job on earth that I can possible imagine worth paying a single person for that earns them 73 million a year.

I mean WTH does a person do, what are their duties, what are they personally responsible for that they get paid 73 million dollars a year.

Anyone can send jobs overseas to make the corporation rich which is part of the problem with our country now. As far as that goes I believe we should reinstate tariffs on goods being shipped into our country so that to the corporate hierarchy manufacturing at home becomes more lucrative. That is how we once delt with foreign cars and before that 20% of federal tax came from tariffs.

How can we give corporations rights as personhood when they hold no allegiance to any country? They may be US based (some of them) but for all intents and purpose they are spread across the globe primarily in countries the CEOs would never live.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
With all due respect to Republicans that I know, the elite of the party and the actual policies are completely elitist, pro-rich, anti-poor and middle class, aristocratic, and quite frankly, exploitative. Then, the elite and pundits use religion, traditional values, and fear such as terrorism to cow the population and get votes.

What I am not doing here is attack "real conservatives" that are either independent or libertarian. I respect many of those positions.

originally posted by: spirited75

originally posted by: crazyewok

Unless you want a society were people starve to death and live in 3rd world poverty.

the most massive epidemic in America is
morbid endogenous obesity, not starving people.

you are using emotionalism and fear mongering.

give me a link that shows a picture of a child or adult starving to death in America.

I'm no dietitian for people-only certificates in animal dietary care- but it seems that some of the obesity you see is actually starvation from eating unhealthy foods and not eating enough. Your body going into starvation mode, hordes fat if you don't have enough food intake. On top of that it means people can't- due to time, etc. or don't know how to prepare foods in bulk to save, such as why food banks-etc. offer cooking seminars, that's not even to mention buying the wrong foods because they are cheap and prepared. This isn't even to bring into that account of a stationary lifestyle shift of America-another topic altogether.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The reality of any situation is you could put 20 men in a room all with $1 each, and one of those bastards will end up with the majority of the dollars bills.

The people who complain about inequality of income in our country don't realize that inequality of income is what built this great nation. This nation has been built on cheap labor, from the slaves, to the Chinese, and now the Mexican immigrants. There has always been wealthy people, and what separates them from the poor isn't just education. Instead it is drive, and determination that they are better than other people.

I have my brother explain to me that he was at minimum work 100k a year. He had just been released from prison for really screwing up with checks. The reality is he still believed he was worth 100k a year. It took him 8 long years to get back to a 100k a year job. How does a convicted felon hire in at $10 an hour and work his way back up to over 100k a year? It is simple, he wasn't satisfied and still isn't satisfied with his current living situation and is willing to do whatever he has to do to better prepare himself in this economy. He's reeducated and is more willing to apply himself than the next guy.

If you wonder why you are not making 100k+ a year, if you wonder why you are not an executive. Look in the mirror. You are your worst enemy, and the only person holding you back is yourself.

I give people a pass depending on disability, but not all disabilities deserve a pass, when your brain is your most powerful muscle in your body.

Lastly, the people who concern themselves with the wages of others are never happy and never satisfied. The difference is a small percentage work to do something about it, and the others bitch. Are you someone who only complains or are you prepared to better yourself?

. a reply to: BurbGirl378 A "burger flipper" (minimum wage worker) is an untrained and unskilled worker, capable of doing menial tasks and does not deserve the same or more pay than an active duty serviceman or tradesman, period. If you want to earn a livable wage, you need to be worth it. If a robot can do your job what makes you think you're worth $15 an hour? Why should you be rewarded for doing the minimum to get by? I still stand by my statement that the minimum wage job was never intended to be a career regardless what the others on this post keep repeating.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The GOP believes CEOs deserve to pocket in one year what it would take the average worker 331 years of labor to earn – a ratio calculated by the AFL-CIO Executive Paywatch team this year. CEOs are just so important, so special, so irreplaceable, according to the GOP.

Because the CEO's and the GOP are willing to sit through sh!t like this together in the belief that it gives them some kind of elevated status in Society. Their private parties, private schools, private yachts, private jets and limousines designed to keep them away from the very dis-eases they themselves create.

Bohemian Grove

a reply to: OrdoAdChao Yes minimum wage workers do earn most of their pay in tips, you ever work as a server in a resturaunt or bar? They earn around 2 bucks an hour but tips make up a huge percentage of their pay civileats.com...

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ketsuko

I gave that to you as a thought exercise. Consider it from the perspective of a business owner, not the perspective of the so-called victim. There are two sides here, and you seem to perpetually be seeing only the one.

I fully endorse you starting your own business and running it however you wish with whatever pay structure you desire. Who knows? Maybe you'll be the next Costco. Just make sure you can successfully tap an affluent market share.

LOL, yeah. I know. Very condescending of you.

My father was an entreprenuer. His employees got raises when the company did really well.
Of course, it was a PRIVATE company, not a Wall-Street traded company.

He and his partners cared about how the employees were doing.
So don't preach to me, ma'am. I see both sides. And btw, Costco pays their employees quite well:

Wholesale retailer Costco pays its employees an average of nearly $21 per hour, about 65% higher than its largest rival, Wal-Mart. And, Costco's starting hourly pay is $11.50; that's $2.18 higher Costco's home state of Washington's minimum wage, right now the highest in the nation.

finance.yahoo.com...

Costco earns a third more in revenue that Walmart.
Read, watch, and learn.

Here's what you need to get over---that worship of pictures of dead presidents.
Those big box stores are the very ones that put local small businesses out of business. That means that all the dollars that used to stay in your town now go to corporate headquarters somewhere. And you may be sure that corporate headquarters will send back only a small percentage.
Accepting the "lesser of evils" is still accepting evil.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I think you're on the right track with the return of tariffs on imported goods. I would also add to that either an outright ban or heavy tariff on manufacturing outside of the US by US companies, with those proceeds going to the areas that produced that good or services in the form of refunds to the consumers at the level that would have been directly involved in producing that good or service inside the US. This would help alleviate the harm that has been caused by out-sourcing labor to other countries where $1 is as good as $15 or more. Many a person would balk at this, saying more would be lost in the government overhead of this "re-distribution" of wealth, but, with technology today, this process could easily be automated and if the companies are Fortune 500 level companies, the profits would be publicly available and therefore under the scrutiny of the public who would be owed a cut.

This is hardly a perfect solution as I am no economist, but in my mind, it would help Americans get back to producing and competing in a real world-based economy.

a reply to: V22tech

I was replying to your linked article about fast-food franchise workers. I've worked as a cook in many a greasy spoon, and we made OK tips from the servers, but really, that's completely beside the point I was making. Yes, waiters/waitresses and casino attendants make out pretty well on tips, but fast-food franchise workers do not.

Plus, that link applies to most right to work states. I live in a state without RTW and servers/attendants make minimum wage at least, with kitchen staff averaging 10%-45% more depending on position/seniority/experience. I'll guarantee you there is more food and less unsavory things in your meal in my state than those.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: diggindirt

Or it might just remind them that the people still have some power.

It's just been beaten into us to be beholden and look where this kowtowing behavior has gotten us, eh? It allowed them to do this.

And why is it so horrible to make a statement in a peaceful way? And what could be the consequences? They could fire everyone and replace them? Yeah, with the amount of rampant unemployment, maybe they could, but that would eat into their profits a bit too. And they really wouldn't like that.

And so is your alternative to just grovel and let them keep piling up all the money for themselves? Just because...well they can?

I gave you my alternative in my post---if you want a low wage earners' strike, organize and execute a strike. "Calling in sick" is the coward's way of "standing up" for something I suppose....
So you would support suspending care of the elderly if they happen to have politicians in their family? To make a point about money???? How far into unethical and immoral behavior are you willing to go? Until the means justifies the end?
My question remains unanswered: Is that the way you wish to be treated?

a reply to: OrdoAdChao That is because fast wood workers dont earn tiped minimum wage. I still stand beside my statement that some stoned, half brain dead fry cook does not deserve to make as much as i did as an E-4 in the navy just because he or she is too lazy to get an education and get a better job.

a reply to: V22tech

It doesn't matter weather a minimum wage job was intended to be a career. Many people don't have the "luxury" of a career. They get a job because they have to pay for shelter, clean water, and food. You seem to be quite smitten with yourself and the fact that you've had the ability to obtain post secondary education. For many people, for many reasons they have not been afforded the additional training that, in your opinion, makes you so much more valuable. You seem determined to re-coup your investment in the Post Secondary Degree you've obtained.

We are all human. We all function in the same economy, and really, I know a good burger when I get one. Showing up on time every day, well fed, clean, and prepared to work are qualities that every employee should be rewarded for by a profitable Corporation. Whether it is Walmart or Lockheed we all need a livable wage.

a reply to: V22tech

So, do you believe a corporate entity should be able to use that kind of labor in order to reap massive profits off of overstressed individuals ( franchise owners) who obviously are willing to employ such people (who you disdain) to turn a meager profit per store so they can be a bit "safer" in their entrepreneurship?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Anyone can send jobs overseas to make the corporation rich which is part of the problem with our country now. As far as that goes I believe we should reinstate tariffs on goods being shipped into our country so that to the corporate hierarchy manufacturing at home becomes more lucrative. That is how we once delt with foreign cars and before that 20% of federal tax came from tariffs.

How can we give corporations rights as personhood when they hold no allegiance to any country? They may be US based (some of them) but for all intents and purpose they are spread across the globe primarily in countries the CEOs would never live.

What?!

You mean you don't want to live in an interdependent one world utopia?

-FBB

Why has working hard and working smart become villainous? I am a University student who dreams of that sort of success, and will put in the work it takes to achieve it. For many CEO's, its not about the money, its about building something bigger than themselves. The money is a perk, a reward of sorts, given to someone whose leadership and decision making helped grow a firm and ensure it profitably. Many of you seem to forget that shareholders set the salaries paid to CEO's. Their wages are often high because their position puts them in indirect contact with, and has influence over the lives of (in many cases) hundreds of thousands or millions of people. Take the ever-hated Walmart, for example: how many people are affected by the decisions made by it's CEO? Well. The obvious takers here are the employees, shareholders and customers. If we dig a bit deeper, we can find people who provide indirect services to WalMart, like the dry cleaners who clean the uniforms or the distributors of soap user in its bathroom. Dig even deeper and you find some poor soul in Chin, slaving in a factory making our WalMart goods, just trying to feed his family. The CEO is the head of the company, and his actions affect the lives of so, so many people.

Now look at the unskilled janitor. His job can be done by anyone with two legs and two arms. You can (and I am sure people have) train a monkey to do the same job. The janitor plays an important role in the Walmart corporation, but because of the level of skill involved and the relatively low number of people the janitor's decisions affects, his wage is significantly lower.


Earlier I mentioned that for many successful people, including CEO's, its not about the money. Its about using knowledge and skill, both learned and innate, to accomplish something larger than themselves. Its about being productive, and being the best at what you do. Its about working not just hard, but smart. And that boys and girls, is what differentiates someone who is an unskilled laborer and someone who is a CEO. The CEO earned his way into his position through hard work, determination, charisma and by using many other skills. The CEO understood the rules to the game, and played. Its not fair, there aren't enough positions available for every "Joe nobody" to be a CEO, or even successful, as it takes more than just hard work to get to the too.

The humble janitor metaphor. This embodies any unskilled laborer in the US, and can even be some of you. The humble janitor works hard but not smart. He does his job, respects his boss, and does what he is told. His boss tells him what to do and he does it. He respects his manager, but spites the CEO and owner of the company. He hates the rich because he knows he does not have what it takes to ever be like them. He works his job, refuses to go to college (ever applied for a FAFSA?). If he did go to college, he refuses to do what it takes to go the extra mile, or lacks the intelligence to do it correctly.


working hard and smart, one can do anything. The problem is that in our society, many of the smart dont work hard, and many of the hard workers aren't smart.

most of them, as sad as it is, are entitled. They are entitled to more money, to have less responsibilities, to cheaper food, to better electronics. They would rather sit back and have the CEO foot the bill, than work hard and become a CEO themselves. Its pathetic. These weak, entitled individuals make me sick. Man-up and grow a pair.


just an opinion didnt mean to offend

a reply to: BurbGirl378

Trust me im nothing special, I decided to work on aircraft for 7 years in the navy, I learned a trade, got out and now use that trade and make a decent living. I couldnt afford a 4 year college so I got my associates in avionics technologies using my GI bill. Many more could do the same instead of complaining. Very few minimum wage workers are disqualified from the service. There are tons of trade schools around as well, that dont cost very much to get into. Welding, for example, is easy to learn and there are hundreds of places that need welders, like the oil and gas industry. I know several people that bought industrial cleaning tools at an auction, like floor buffers and whatnot for like 50 bucks, and started a business doing janitorial work. It may sound like minimum wage crap but not if you own the company and have multiple contracts around the city. Excuses are like a$$holes, every one has them and they all stink. People act like minimum wage is all they can do, someone said earlier, you are the one holding you back, not the "man."

originally posted by: CZ75P01
Why has working hard and working smart become villainous? I am a University student who dreams of that sort of success, and will put in the work it takes to achieve it. For many CEO's, its not about the money, its about building something bigger than themselves. The money is a perk, a reward of sorts, given to someone whose leadership and decision making helped grow a firm and ensure it profitably. Many of you seem to forget that shareholders set the salaries paid to CEO's. Their wages are often high because their position puts them in indirect contact with, and has influence over the lives of (in many cases) hundreds of thousands or millions of people. Take the ever-hated Walmart, for example: how many people are affected by the decisions made by it's CEO? Well. The obvious takers here are the employees, shareholders and customers. If we dig a bit deeper, we can find people who provide indirect services to WalMart, like the dry cleaners who clean the uniforms or the distributors of soap user in its bathroom. Dig even deeper and you find some poor soul in Chin, slaving in a factory making our WalMart goods, just trying to feed his family. The CEO is the head of the company, and his actions affect the lives of so, so many people.

Now look at the unskilled janitor. His job can be done by anyone with two legs and two arms. You can (and I am sure people have) train a monkey to do the same job. The janitor plays an important role in the Walmart corporation, but because of the level of skill involved and the relatively low number of people the janitor's decisions affects, his wage is significantly lower.


Earlier I mentioned that for many successful people, including CEO's, its not about the money. Its about using knowledge and skill, both learned and innate, to accomplish something larger than themselves. Its about being productive, and being the best at what you do. Its about working not just hard, but smart. And that boys and girls, is what differentiates someone who is an unskilled laborer and someone who is a CEO. The CEO earned his way into his position through hard work, determination, charisma and by using many other skills. The CEO understood the rules to the game, and played. Its not fair, there aren't enough positions available for every "Joe nobody" to be a CEO, or even successful, as it takes more than just hard work to get to the top.

The humble janitor metaphor. This embodies any unskilled laborer in the US, and can even be some of you. The humble janitor works hard but not smart. He does his job, respects his boss, and does what he is told. His boss tells him what to do and he does it. He respects his manager, but spites the CEO and owner of the company. He hates the rich because he knows he does not have what it takes to ever be like them. He works his job, refuses to go to college (ever applied for a FAFSA?). If he did go to college, he refuses to do what it takes to go the extra mile, or lacks the intelligence to do it correctly.


working hard and smart, one can do anything. The problem is that in our society, many of the smart dont work hard, and many of the hard workers aren't smart.

most of them, as sad as it is, are entitled. They are entitled to more money, to have less responsibilities, to cheaper food, to better electronics. They would rather sit back and have the CEO foot the bill, than work hard and become a CEO themselves. Its pathetic. These weak, entitled individuals make me sick. Man-up and grow a pair.


just an opinion

didnt mean to

a reply to: CZ75P01

Many of us have done what you are pointing out. This is not a disagreement to the idea of working hard and smart and then reaping the rewards, it's an disagreement towards the idea that this fact makes it completely acceptable to look down upon the humble janitor as a loser who deserves to struggle to make ends meet. In a country where a handful of people hold more wealth than 300+ million individuals, that humble janitor deserves not to struggle.

originally posted by: FriedBabelBroccoli

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Anyone can send jobs overseas to make the corporation rich which is part of the problem with our country now. As far as that goes I believe we should reinstate tariffs on goods being shipped into our country so that to the corporate hierarchy manufacturing at home becomes more lucrative. That is how we once delt with foreign cars and before that 20% of federal tax came from tariffs.

How can we give corporations rights as personhood when they hold no allegiance to any country? They may be US based (some of them) but for all intents and purpose they are spread across the globe primarily in countries the CEOs would never live.

What?!

You mean you don't want to live in an interdependent one world utopia?

-FBB

I don't know where you get your ideas from or why you seem to take such liberties in making assumptions about me or my beliefs..