There is NO SUCH THING As a Dissapearing Plane in the 21st Century.

originally posted by: HalfAWorldAway
a reply to: GeminiSky

Sorry to burst your Bubble OP, but in reality no country has such capabilities. Its all propaganda. No, our skies are not 100
% shielded, no we cannot detect a matchbox coming into the atmosphere... Its all propaganda, the crude reality is that no country can cover 100% of their air, land and see territory, its impossible

Have you seen this?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now imagine a rogue sub commander trying to cause a real international conflict. Subs are designed to be as stealthy as possible. Imagine, they cannot even pin point the location of a COMMERCIAL LINER! Imagine the enemy subs... they can be anywhere any time and there is NO WAY to know where they are. MAD

a reply to: Rosinitiate

That looks so humanitarian, still. To the point is that is all propaganda de we have our skies, seas and land covered, its not. The mystery triangle plane spotted was a Chinese spy plane. They wanted to be seen as a demonstration of force.

believe me Russians and Iran are not a threat, China is planning deceptively how to subdue the west swiftly

a reply to: solargeddon

Air France 447 carried four ELTs and not one went off. I guess that means the wreckage they found wasn't AF447.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Technology huh? well just sheesh

a reply to: Zaphod58

sorry got caught up!! AF447 didn't go off, all four of them ... ok, i can live with that. MH370 dont go off, all four of them? hmmmmmm is someone selling divining rods as bomb detectors? surely not ...... wait, he's in jail . ..... cant be him either ....... next

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

ELTs have to be periodically replaced due to the batteries. We know Malaysia has a history of not doing routine maintenance on some equipment based on them not sending the recorders back when they were due in 2012(IIRC), so why would the ELTs be any different?

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

ELT's don't work underwater. Which is odd, as some models have a "water switch". Generally if goes off if it detects rapid deceleration, but unlike the CVR and DFDR, is is not shielded, no in the event of a real hard impact, it will most likely be destroyed before it gets chance to go off.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Actually the batter has to be periodically replaced, this is a routine MPD task and would be incorporated into their maintenance program. You, would not replace the whole ELT in a routine fashion as this would require a re-code, and is more complex than it seems.

I would like to know the source of your information that Malaysian Airlines is subject to maintenance deficiencies?? that is actually a very VERY serious accusation

a reply to: Zaphod58
No reason, just seems pointless to buy expensive equipment ...... both Air France and Malaysian Airlines, not service them and to have 1 (or 8 depending on thought process) unit each end up in the drink ........... perhaps i should speak to Easyjet or Ryanair before my next flight to find out if all systems are operational ...... scary scary thought if companies are paying top dollar for something they dont care about dontcha think?

a reply to: JakiusFogg

Same result. I just woke up so I'm not exactly the most articulate at this point.

articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com...

Malaysia claims the pingers were due to be replaced this year, the OEM said they were due in 2012, and they never received them.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

And the airlines are run by people, who are going to try to skimp and save every Dunne they can. Especially when the airline is in financial trouble.

Airlines are safer now than ever, so people choose to gamble with some things. Sometimes they lose.

You also have to think about how violent crashes are. You're talking about hundreds of Gs at impact. That's enough to break almost anything made.

a reply to: Zaphod58

OK, it is not unusual though for the airline to perform maintenance in house, or through an approved vendor / service provider, rather than sending the unit off to the OEM. It would be possible that the airline's MRO has a part pool agreement, where by the old unit is just swapped for a new unit.

No in the case of terminology, the use of the word pinger I find is a sill dumbed down term used by the MSM, for the benefit of the sheeps. Just to elevate our own understanding, the "pinger" is called the Underwater Locator Beacon (ULB), the standard part number is DK120. One is fitted on both the CVR and DFDR, and are subject to routine replacement. Spare ULBs can be bought on the aftermarket quite easily.

This are different from the ELT's which are seperate units broadcasting through services like Cospas Sarsat at 406 Khz. These too have battery packs that need to be replace periodically. Again after market rules apply.

Of course, for a national carries like Malaysian, it would not be beyond possibility that they hold shop approvals to perform this maintenance themselves, that way the only ones who know the true maintenance status of the aircraft, is their own engineering and maintenance departments.

a reply to: Zaphod58

While I might agree with that in general terms, in the case of aviation and the international culture that exists, this is rather unlikely, especially in terms of maintenance. Yes i know it has happened, and does go one, but these are very rare cases, Alaska Airlines is one example. However, in general terms there does exists a level of professionalism in E&M that precludes this type of negligent behavior, especially as far as routine maintenance is concerned. its all very black and white with very tight limits of tolerance.

a reply to: JakiusFogg

Its possible, but amazingly after twenty years in the same location without any problems, a few weeks after the plane went missing, someone burned down the avionics shop, where the records were kept.

Nothing suspicious there.

a reply to: Zaphod58

i was trying to get at AF and MA, 2 separate airlines using the same equipment ........ different budgets, different maintenance teams, different countries ............ 8 ELT failures? like i said previously .... is someone trying to sell golf ball finders as bomb detectors? some countries bought into this why not airlines with ELT's ..... are they worthless?

As for G's at impact ....... try thinking wheels down and landing somewhere ............. very little G's on impact with Tarmac/Mud/Dust/Ice etc etc ....... ok ice is pushing it a bit lol

a reply to: JakiusFogg

Its more common than you think in some parts of the world. Hell I saw it a number of times on military aircraft. People pencil whip things all the time, sometimes pretty damn important things, like the bolts that attach wings after depot maintenance (F-117 over Maryland, C-130 in Europe).

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

No, the ELT's do work, I have seen them being activated by Accident, and suddenly phones start ringing, and helicopter appear. all very dramatic. But, they are not indestructible.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I don't know about military, but within Commercial maintenance ... pencil whipping has happened, but I would not say it is endemic, especially as far as critical airworthiness inspections, systems, structures etc. In general its a big no, no. I could say more but I would not broadcast that on a public forum.

Im surprised to hear that the avionics shop burned down, but as far as the records are concerend, a record of the MPD task to accomplished the ULB replacement will be logged in the MRO records system, with trace to the GRN / batch of the ULB installed. possibility with a copy of the 8130-3 / Form 1 that certified the unit. While the shop paperwirk may be gone, the quality records system will extend far beyond the Av.Shop.

a reply to: Zaphod58

ok last question

I previously mentioned HMS Tireless and capabilities, that is one submarine from one country, multiply that by every capable country with the / or similar technology ........ not one, (apparently) picked up diddly squat pings ....... or if they did they are being very quiet. Therefore, question is, what can these subs detect? my guess is nothing if MA offed itself in the ocean ...... then again, perhaps the subs are capable and the actual airliner landed somewhere. What say you?