There is NO SUCH THING As a Dissapearing Plane in the 21st Century.

a reply to: GeminiSky

Your sarcasm was noted but ignored...it was weak

But your whole thread title and theory is bunk. As the plane HAS disappeared!!

Everything else is conjecture and conspiracy invention. Made-up by hacks who have no knowledge of how things actually can go wrong, even in the 21st century!!

originally posted by: DeadSeraph

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: GeminiSky

Indeed, GeminiSky.

Which brings us to the real meat of the situation: where the hell is it? Where the hell are all those people.

It seems foolish to think that, as stayed in your OP, that with modern tracking tech (the extent of which I can only assume remains classified) we can lose track of something as large as a plane.

At the bottom of the ocean.

On 1 April 2014 the UK sent a Trafalger Class sub to the search area. This sub has the 2076 Sonar System. It is the UK's most advanced and classified sonar system. It has the most advanced underwater search capabilities.

It's a nuke sub..you know...Apocalypse in a can. BBC had one picture of this sub, on the surface and that was it. You didn't hear anything else. You won't hear anything else, because they are fussy about telling you where they are and what they are doing.

This sub can sit off the coast of England and hear a ship leave New York harbour. The latest and the greatest stuff.

So they were told about where they think the plane went into the ocean. They knew about where to look, and what freq. to listen for from the black box,

So..do ya think..if a 777 was on the bottom, pinging...anywhere within ...oh lets say a 1000 miles, that this super sub with super sonar would not have found it ?

We are getting a bunch of smoke blown up our pant legs. That dang plane is not in the ocean, or a Jesus H. tap-dancing Christ nuclear firggin sub would have found it !!!!

They picked up pings from the plane before the transponders went dead. They know the general area where wreckage is, but recovering it now is a tall task due to the depths of the ocean where the signals were picked up (and they still haven't managed to triangulate the exact location of where the signals were originating from).

I'm not sure why conspiracy theorists think this is anything other than a tragic plane crash over the ocean. In this day and age, it still happens, and it's not the first time planes have been lost over the ocean and never recovered.

There were no aliens. There were no secret landings or CIA shenanigans. It was a plane crash.

Oh my how many angry replies here....And yet again shoveling the official MSM explanation....will you guys ever stop? Why even come to a conspiracy website if you dont want to read conspiracy theories?

Such behavior is very telling...why exactly are you on this thread? What are your reasons for repeating the same things we hear on CNN over and over on this forum? (you know who you are)

GS

a reply to: GeminiSky


Unfortunately the MSM are all anyone has to go on. They reported a plane missing (FACT) they reported it has not be found (FACT)

No one else has any facts. So what do you suppose people do?

Just because its the 21st century doesn't mean anything....the other day I jumped in my car and put the key in the ignition and it didn't start. I couldn't believe it...I mean..in the 21st century!! How is this possible???

and too top it off, I went back inside my house and my internet was down for over an hour.....HOW? It's the 21st century, what kind of voodoo is this?

I read 2 threads by you today, and in both threads, you do not accept other people opinions.
Only yours!
This is clearly not a good base for discussions.

This said, I have to tell you, that I think the plane is somewhere, but most likely not where they are searching.
Several points you make are pretty naive though. You expect the USA to cover the whole world, that is simply impossible. Planes have disappeared before, but the problem here is, that all other planes disappeared with some problem (severe weather conditions or technical issues), but this plane just simply disappeared.

NORAD can track objects entering orbit the size of a matchbox, and predict their trajectory and impacts with frightening precision.
Nasa can predict locations of objects in deep space several decades into the future

They are not watching for commercial flights!

The numerous army, airforce and navy bases located all around the area where the airliner allegedly disappeared all have real-time scanning radars, in order to detect incoming enemy aircraft. In order to be effective at defense, these radars have to be ON ALL THE TIME scanning the skys.

Radars have a limited range and there are several maps, that show this ranges and you can avoid flying through radar covered space, in fact there is a lot of uncovered terrain.

Now to the plane itself. The Boeing 777 has numerous systems for guidance. The airplane has to be connected to multiple satellites simultaneously in order to process accurate location and vector information. You also have a transponder. And then there are the mysterious black boxes. (Mysterious because they have indestructible electronics and GPS beacons, which should have already been located)

There lies one of the big problems I see with airplane security, this devices can be deactivated by people onboard.
Btw. blackboxes do not have a GPS, since it would not work anyway. There are different reasons, but I am not an expert of this. Most of the times I thinkt it might be that GPS is only one-way. Means, that you can receive the location (in this case the black box knows where it is) but you can not send your location (the blackbox can not send back where it is, you need another connection)

This package is 24/7 real time monitoring of the aircraft engines by the RR monitoring station. The aircraft can be anywhere in the world, and if something happens to the engine, such as the exhaust temperature exceeding parameters, a flag instantly goes up at the RR monitoring station, who then contacts the airline and ultimately the pilots and maintenance personnel of that particular aircraft.

This is how they are able to tell that the plane was in the air for several more hours after disappearing, the device itself does not record the location though.
You can only assume the location through triangulating the signal (or something like that) which happened and led to 2 possible flight corridors, the one they are searching now and the one over Pakistan.

So what I want to explain to you is, that there are ways that this plane disappears, but people have to actively want it to disappear.
And eyes can only see things they are looking at.
These 2 points made it possible that the plane disappeared.
What I think?
It is not where they think it is. It might have been shot down in an accident or landed somewhere, but has never ever crashed there, the lack of debris is too huge to be ignored.
I mean they had satellite coverage of that area as soon as they pinned it down. (and ships at the location)


Edit: changed something about the gps part

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: GeminiSky


Unfortunately the MSM are all anyone has to go on. They reported a plane missing (FACT) they reported it has not be found (FACT)

No one else has any facts. So what do you suppose people do?

Just because its the 21st century doesn't mean anything....the other day I jumped in my car and put the key in the ignition and it didn't start. I couldn't believe it...I mean..in the 21st century!! How is this possible???

and too top it off, I went back inside my house and my internet was down for over an hour.....HOW? It's the 21st century, what kind of voodoo is this?

Well I do have solutions for all 3 of your problems:

Solution1. Turn off your television, and start using critical thinking to form your own conclusions instead of the ones conveniently formulated for you by the TV. If the MSM is all you go by for your news, then I truly pity you.

Solution2. Perhaps you should purchase a car that was manufactured in the 21st century? Those tend to start right up.

Solution3. Try switching to Verizon Fios, if it is available in your part of Kentucky. This provides a very stable internet connection.

I hope that helps your issues...that is all.

GS

a reply to: aLLeKs

I was waiting hector the dissector...thank you for joining us. It should be noted that I accept all opinions, and you are right the lack of crash debris indicates a potential landing. And yes what I am saying is that no plane can "simply disappear" unless it was very intentional, and the flight tracking was IGNORED and not televised.

This is obviously a coordinated effort...for reasons unknown...

GS

Dimensional rift in space time like the Bermuda and Dragons triangle?

No one in the 21st century uses those theories anymore.

originally posted by: TDawgRexMy theory is the flight crew killed the passengers and then bellyed it in nice and slow.

To what end? Did the flight crew murder everyone on board and suicide themselves or were they picked up by handlers and patted on the back?

To the person who came on and started to bang on about how they don't understand the conspiracy here, did you read the OP? Because you commented without debating any of the points he raised (go on, give yourself a facepalm, you know you deserve it, now go play with the toys while the adults talk!).

What the OP talks about is the biggest head scratcher in this case, flight tracking websites aside, sure a plane can vanish but you can bet that when it does somebody somewhere has a data record of the altitude, speed and heading the aircraft in question was on when it happened.

And the Rolls Royce data, just because Malaysian Airlines didn't pay for the service package doesn't mean RR didn't receive the engine data, it means they don't share it with MA. They have the data or they wouldn't have been able to use it in the investigation as has been reported numerous times.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: GeminiSky

Indeed, GeminiSky.

Which brings us to the real meat of the situation: where the hell is it? Where the hell are all those people.

It seems foolish to think that, as stayed in your OP, that with modern tracking tech (the extent of which I can only assume remains classified) we can lose track of something as large as a plane.

At the bottom of the ocean.

They picked up pings from the plane before the transponders went dead. They know the general area where wreckage is, but recovering it now is a tall task due to the depths of the ocean where the signals were picked up (and they still haven't managed to triangulate the exact location of where the signals were originating from).

I'm not sure why conspiracy theorists think this is anything other than a tragic plane crash over the ocean. In this day and age, it still happens, and it's not the first time planes have been lost over the ocean and never recovered.

There were no aliens. There were no secret landings or CIA shenanigans. It was a plane crash.

There have been incidents with planes in the past but NO ONE was even remotely like this. Note that I deliberately avoided the word "crash" since we don't have ONE single indication that the plane even crashed. The "crash" is only a theory.

A plane crash, some kind of accident is normally an emergency situation. We would have distress calls, radio communications, possibly mobile phone calls or ANY sort of *indication* that an accident happened but we don't.

Instead, what we have is indications that it was not an accident or crash, but that many actions before the disappearance where carefully planned. They even said the plane avoided radar in the area. If this is true this already excludes all scenarios like fire in the cabin etc. since there is no reason to avoid radar....NEITHER IS THERE A REASON TO DISABLE MOST EQUIPMENT on the plane.

So...leaves us with very few speculations which could (sort-of) make sense, like a "suicidal pilot" that had an elaborate plan....except that a suicidal pilot doesn't continue flying a plane for 5-6 hours....there would be a zillion more "convenient" ways to commit suicide rather than going through the hassles to disable 240 passengers on a 777, then fying 6 more hours wherever...and THEN..just like that...crash the plane.

Even if we speculate a crash scenario (and I am certainly not tending towards silly theories like that a black hole sucked up the plane etc. so obviously a crash is the most plausible scenario) - we don't have any debris, oil slicks or whatever...in my opinion the chances are rather small that a plane crashes so "smoothly" it doesn't break apart or doesn't leave at least SOME trace that it crashed. But we have...NOTHING. No *indication* for an accident or crash and of course no evidence.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: TDawgRexMy theory is the flight crew killed the passengers and then bellyed it in nice and slow.

To what end? Did the flight crew murder everyone on board and suicide themselves or were they picked up by handlers and patted on the back?

To the person who came on and started to bang on about how they don't understand the conspiracy here, did you read the OP? Because you commented without debating any of the points he raised (go on, give yourself a facepalm, you know you deserve it, now go play with the toys while the adults talk!).



What the OP talks about is the biggest head scratcher in this case, flight tracking websites aside, sure a plane can vanish but you can bet that when it does somebody somewhere has a data record of the altitude, speed and heading the aircraft in question was on when it happened.

And the Rolls Royce data, just because Malaysian Airlines didn't pay for the service package doesn't mean RR didn't receive the engine data, it means they don't share it with MA. They have the data or they wouldn't have been able to use it in the investigation as has been reported numerous times.

Ahh friend but you see the kicker is that they DID PAY FOR THE PACKAGE...see here Link

Rolls-Royce, the global power systems company, has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Malaysia Airlines for long-term TotalCare® services support for Trent 900 engines that will power its new fleet of six Airbus A380 aircraft.

Rolls-Royce already provides TotalCare support services for Trent 800 engines that power Malaysia Airlines’ fleet of 17 Boeing 777 aircraft.

Speaking at the Farnborough International Airshow, Ahmad Jauhari Yahya, Group CEO, Malaysia Airlines, said: “We are very happy with the support we receive from Rolls-Royce - TotalCare alleviates the burden of engine maintenance and provides significant financial savings. We look forward to receiving the same high level of support for our Trent 900 engines as we undertake this important fleet expansion.”

Yes some people just come here spewing nonsense and making us all into tinfoil wearing freaks without even reading the OP

GS

a reply to: GeminiSky

The MSM in this case is all there is. It is not something that is honest but the TWO facts I gave you are what I was referring too. You're skills in reading and comprehension are akin to your spelling!!

All the rest of the stuff you mentioned is just made up OR from the MSM. Like the cell phones still turned on....FROM the MSM. NONE of you have any other facts that point to where the plane is!

You people like to pick an choose when to use the MSM and only when it fits one of your poorly ill conceived ideas!!

As for the MSM....now this is where you are either very young or very naive. EVERYONE on this damn board uses it. When someone posts their SOURCE on a thread...it MSM mainly. Go check nearly ever thread!! So please.....think before speaking....and writing!!

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: GeminiSky

The MSM in this case is all there is. It is not something that is honest but the TWO facts I gave you are what I was referring too. You're skills in reading and comprehension are akin to your spelling!!

All the rest of the stuff you mentioned is just made up OR from the MSM. Like the cell phones still turned on....FROM the MSM. NONE of you have any other facts that point to where the plane is!

You people like to pick an choose when to use the MSM and only when it fits one of your poorly ill conceived ideas!!

As for the MSM....now this is where you are either very young or very naive. EVERYONE on this damn board uses it. When someone posts their SOURCE on a thread...it MSM mainly. Go check nearly ever thread!! So please.....think before speaking....and writing!!

Oh my goodness such anger. Um....where to begin...do I even justify such ramblings with a response..?

Lets see... nowhere did I claim to know where the plane is, or what happened to the plane. I simply stated facts about our abilities to track modern day aircraft.

Nowhere did I mention anything about cellphones, or provide links to MSM...

But please oh please do enlighten us as to your views on what happened to the plane? You do have your own views right? (instead of saying my OP is entirely made up, I would love to hear you say something of substance)

Are you able to do that instead of derailing this thread? Would love to hear your opinion angry pants!

GS

a reply to: GeminiSky

I already gave all the FACTS that are available.

1) The plane HAS disappeared

2) The location as of now is unknown.

2 facts. That counter your thread title.

Not angry in the least. Again comprehension is proving to be a problem. Your other thread is equally argumentative on your behalf. My opinion is different too yours BUT I have fact on my side. THE PLANE HAS DISAPPEARED!!!!

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: GeminiSky

I already gave all the FACTS that are available.

1) The plane HAS disappeared

2) The location as of now is unknown.

2 facts. That counter your thread title.

Not angry in the least. Again comprehension is proving to be a problem. Your other thread is equally argumentative on your behalf. My opinion is different too yours BUT I have fact on my side. THE PLANE HAS DISAPPEARED!!!!

I agree but perhaps its your comprehension that is troublesome? Do you have an actual opinion? Am I to believe that you are completely buying the official story? Word for word?

Yes the TV says the plane has disappeared. Yes my Thread says that with all the tracking advances the plane cant disappear.

So where is the disconnect occurring with you exactly?

Have you ever wondered that maybe....just maybe....the plane never disappeared to the people controlling the plane...it only disappeared in the official version of events (which you continue to repeat robotically)

Seriously why not offer your own opinion on this occurrence instead of repeating what the TV says word for word...


Awaiting to be even more bewildered by your lack of critical thinking skills.

GS

a reply to: GeminiSky

you clearly understand nothing about real aviation or how it works. tons of aircraft have been lost for extended periods after accidents. these things take time. norad doesnt always track everywhere in the world. even if they did that information would not be available for the search
black boxes are not at all indestrcutable some crashes they cannot survive the conditions

originally posted by: ominousrex
a reply to: GeminiSky

you clearly understand nothing about real aviation or how it works. tons of aircraft have been lost for extended periods after accidents. these things take time. norad doesnt always track everywhere in the world. even if they did that information would not be available for the search
black boxes are not at all indestrcutable some crashes they cannot survive the conditions

Ok. I do have a sport pilots license and regularly fly 2 seater LSA's... But your right I probably dont know much about aviation at all. Certainly not "real aviation" as you put it..

You appear to be an expert in the area? Please do tell..I would like a professionals input on this matter...

GS

PS: You appear to have just joined. Welcome to ATS, you sure are on your way to making a name for yourself!

I have an answer for you regarding the radar systems at least. I worked on radar as my first job while in the USAF, so I have a little knowledge. Aircraft use two main types of radar systems. The primary system detects objects by sending out a signal, which bounces off of objects and comes back to the place from which it was sent. Then there is a secondary system in which basically a signal is sent to the aircraft, which receives the signal and sends it back, instead of relying on a reflection.

Now primary radar coverage generally does not extend past say 100 miles offshore. So once a plane gets past that point, there only radar communication uses the secondary method I mentioned above. Therefore if a plane is not sending a signal, then the other side has nothing to receive. But on long distance flights, especially over oceans, they use a system called ADS. This is basically when the aircraft transmits its own signals, without first receiving one. So either way, it appears that the flight in question stopped sending a signal.

"Why" is the big question. Theoretically it is feasible that there was an electrical malfunction of some sort, which caused the transponder to stop operating. Or it could have been switched off on purpose. If the plane blew up, this would also cause the signal to stop transmitting. Now what I heard in this particular case is that a signal should have been picked up every minute or so by those receiving the signals, but the aircraft would have to maintain a relatively high altitude for the signal to reach the tower, or whomever they were transmitting to. So theoretically, if this is correct, if the plane suddenly lost a great deal of altitude, it could have stopped transmitting.

Of course one would say that all we have to do is look at their last known location, or the last point they sent a signal from...But the problem is that they could have flown a long way below 30,000 feet, which is the usual altitude for sending a signal that will reach those tracking the plane. So despite all those receiving a signal, say the engine company, if the engines were transmitting their own signal, which I'm not sure of, if the signal cannot reach the receiver, they won't get it...Obviously. So at a low altitude the signal is not likely to make it to the receiver. Or if there was an explosion, like I said earlier, it won't make it either.

From what I understand the last known position of the aircraft indicated that it was altering its heading. But such an alteration is consistent with the established flight plan. So the only possibility, the way I see it, is that the plane went down somewhere along its intended route, including an explosion, or it went below radar altitude and continued to fly for a considerable distance off of its previous course. If the plane lost its engines it could probably glide for 10 or 15 minutes, and when you are travelling over 500 miles per hour, you will cover a pretty large distance. SO the plane either went down or was hijacked. Not really any other options.

And I believe it is entirely feasible that nobody knew exactly where the plane was. The only way it could have been hijacked yet still not picked up on radar or reported would be if the transponder were turned off, or if the plane flew in exceptionally low once it approached land, or those who did pick it up on radar didn't say anything. I personally believe the plane went down in the ocean. I don't know why it went down, but it likely did.

And apparently it either disintegrated or deviated from its proper course, thus making it difficult to find. Currents could have washed any debris a considerable distance as well, especially if the debris is in one of the search areas that was not hit immediately. Not finding the black box is not that unusual when you consider the depth of the ocean. It is at least feasible that the signal cannot penetrate the water. It is not likely that the black box would have been destroyed or damaged to the point of failure, but I suppose it is at least possible. IF the plane were filled with a huge amount of explosives, perhaps the G forces could have caused the device to stop working. I don't know how they're made, but I wouldn't say they are indestructible. Just very hard to break. Not that likely, but another possibility.

Now as far as the government's tracking stuff, I don't really know. I wouldn't imagine they would have anything looking in that area. Oh you know what though? I just remembered that the system the plane used should have sent a satellite signal, which would make it much harder to block such a signal. Another reason why it is possible the plane went down I suppose. Anyway, even with all the tech, the government is mainly focused on tracking things with certain characteristics. For instance, the signature of a missile launch or something like that. I don't really know what capabilities they have, but I think it is possible that they wouldn't detect anything. Again, I don't know for sure, but it is feasible.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

Oh my Jiggy, first you offer such lengthy and detailed input on my UFO thread, and now your here offering your knowledge on aircraft systems...you really seem to know a lot! Don't forget I also have a Ghost investigation thread, a field which Im sure you're an expert in as well...I would link it for you, but you are probably already there typing an 8 paragraph reply...

GS

a reply to: Danbones

I'm not completely sure, but I believe air dropped sonobuoys last about 24 hours or so. To be a true SOSUS net they would have to be placed on the bottom.

That's a terrible place for a network too. You would want it in the Sea of Japan, circling around through the South China Sea where you could listen for Chinese boats sailing.