If it's crucial for our salvation, why doesn't god give us proof of his existence constantly?

a reply to: Antigod

Christians... how do you know Islam isn't the one true faith? Muslims... how do you know that Judaism isn't the one true faith? etc etc. Doesn't this worry you?

If there could somehow be a "one true faith" then Jesus wouldn't have had to bother coming into this world to connect us with God.
The truth is spiritual, which Islam and Judaism deny as a way of life, but rather choose going along with a regime officiated by other humans.
You could argue that the same sort of thing exists in Christianity, but that would be a false religion too, if it followed along those lines.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

"I am what some people call God. I am the sole reason for existence, the sum totality of truth and being, the first cause and the final conclusion. I am the King of Kings, and I understand you have some questions for me. Let's have a cup of coffee while we discuss our relationship."

What if none of that was true, and the truth was something that comes off as very mundane and ordinary if put into words?

It's not hard for someone who created a universe and judges the fates of thousands of souls daily.

What if he doesn't do any of that?
What if any being that we could actually meet face to face had no more power than an average comic book hero?

a reply to: Antigod

Text If the alternative to believing is burning in hell,

Wanted to stop right there to ask you where does it say in scripture that a spirit burns in hell? Are you imagining that burn in hell is your understanding of flesh burning?

Text There are a only limited number of places in heaven.

You could be right on the money there. The kingdom of heaven is actually the New Jerusalem and that is the house of many mansions that Jesus preached. I could easily believe that by God's foreknowledge the New Jerusalem has only room enough for the saved and once that is filled up then the gates will be closed.

You seem to be a little bitter that things don't go your way. Let me ask you a question. Instead of criticizing God why not criticize your mom and pop? Aren't they the ones that decided to bring you into this mess that you are in? God did not create you directly. You have a belly button so that makes you pro created doesn't it?

God gave people this world to take care of and live in it rent free with all the food they need and no need to worry about bad guys. Meanwhile He builds us a new place to live forever. Now along the line people screw up and mess the whole world up with the mess you see right now. If you were God what would you do right now? You say that God should be visible all the time so people would simply look up and mind God. Right? Well that already happened and we still got this same mess that you see today. Why do we have this mess? Cause people are liars and greedy and selfish and full of hate. It isn't God that is the problem. Look at the DC gang and then you will see exactly why God does this His way.

a reply to: jmdewey60

I'm not interested in discussing "what ifs". We are talking about a very specific being here, with very specific qualities. Benevolent, the embodiment of love, omnipotent, omniscient, creator of existence, alpha and omega, etc. That is the being I have had in mind throughout this thread. Your "what ifs" are not...what's the word? "Canon".

originally posted by: borntowatch
Arnt these threads boring?
Someone asks a simple question and all the hardened evangelical atheists come thumping their respective Darwinian bibles, to drown out any valid responses.

The question was not does God exist. We know the atheist answer, you all preach it enough, over and over, thank you again, we know your position, hardly can forget it.

What about the original question by the opening poster, can that be answered

If you read the entire thread, I think you'll find the question was answered in great detail from a variety of perspectives. seeing. And yes, your criticism is noted and logged.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

. . . alpha and omega . . .

That part probably means eternal, and the rest of that list is made up as far as I can tell by just looking at the Bible.
What if we have eternal souls too, then what does that make God?
Something like us, I would guess.
My suggestion is that anyone having preconceived ideas about the nature of God should take a hard look at all those items and ask where they come from.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Mammasawakenow
The point is faith he wants us to have faith. He's real and he loves you and wants to have a relationship with you today all you have to do is pray and ask him into your life and forgiveness of your sins

x

And all I ask is that he come down from his mighty throne, have a cup of coffee with me, and spend a few hours answering my questions. I mean, if you had an opportunity to patch things up with an estranged relative whom you loved more than even yourself, what would you stop at to make it happen? What would you give up to spend just five minutes with them, even if it didn't work out in the end? Just to tell them how you feel, knowing what the alternative is - namely, knowing that you had a chance and never even tried. That you loved someone so much and literally just sat by and let it slip through your fingers. Why? Because you're afraid? Or lazy? I'm not a god - that is to say, in any life but my own - but it seems to me that for someone so powerful and omnipotent, it's a small price to pay for reconciling with your child whom you supposedly love more than anything else. But I guess it's still too great a price. Which is odd, considering how compelling the stories have always made him sound.

He will come to you but you don't believe in him and this stops him from visiting you.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
a reply to: the2ofusr1

I go to church every week and don't disagree, but how does one explain why the Bible is full of accounts of people speaking with God directly? What happened in the millennia since then? Was the 'veil' between this world and the next nonexistent, or much thinner? Did God decide to stop talking to people at some point? So far no one has addressed this question to my satisfaction.

Hello,

Great question! I suggest you continue to investigate and research your question. Since the question is if God has stopped talking to people, let me throw this at you; have most people stopped talking to God?

If you go to church then I guess you have (some) faith in God? Since you said church I assume you are Christian? So may I ask how are your prayers coming along? Daily? Nightly? Everyday? Studying God's word? How long, how often?

The secret to getting God to acknowledge you and answer you is in prayer. Your prayers are the answer. Your prayers show love for the one true God, show respect to him and his kingdom must be given. This can not be done half-heartedly or with an agenda. This will take months maybe years for something to happen - depending on who you are. We are all not alike.

Most people will not do this..instead they will continue to point the finger and blame God and religion as an excuse for everything that happens to them and to this planet.

BTW - A daily ten minute prayer is not going to cut it. If you spent only ten minutes with your wife a day; how long would you be married? If you spent ONLY ten minutes a day with your children, would your children start to doubt your love for them?

Why does God not speak to everyone? Well, I guess you have to ask him. I have not asked.

Instead of putting God through one of your test (which is forbidden) maybe God is putting each one of us through a test.....one that takes your whole life. Free will can be a b#tch, can't it? Remember the Lord's prayer? "Let thy will be done in heaven and on earth" ...........NOT YOUR WILL BUT HIS. If you follow and do his will; he will make contact with you.

Mankind has proven he can NOT rule over mankind. Mankind does not have all the answers and whatever answers they have change from day to day.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: AfterInfinity

. . . alpha and omega . . .

That part probably means eternal, and the rest of that list is made up as far as I can tell by just looking at the Bible.
What if we have eternal souls too, then what does that make God?
Something like us, I would guess.
My suggestion is that anyone having preconceived ideas about the nature of God should take a hard look at all those items and ask where they come from.

Alpha and Omega - the first and last letter in the Greek alphabet.

When spoken concerning God - He (Jesus) is the first and the last.

What if we have eternal souls too, then what does that make God?

It makes him our creator.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: AfterInfinity

. . . alpha and omega . . .

That part probably means eternal, and the rest of that list is made up as far as I can tell by just looking at the Bible.
What if we have eternal souls too, then what does that make God?
Something like us, I would guess.
My suggestion is that anyone having preconceived ideas about the nature of God should take a hard look at all those items and ask where they come from.

When God said, let's make mortal man in our own image, that means our souls, not our bodies. God the Father is the only uncaused cause, meaning the only pre-existent being in all the Universe. He is the First Source and Center. All life from the Eternal Son down are a result of God's volition.

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Mammasawakenow
The point is faith he wants us to have faith. He's real and he loves you and wants to have a relationship with you today all you have to do is pray and ask him into your life and forgiveness of your sins

x

And all I ask is that he come down from his mighty throne, have a cup of coffee with me, and spend a few hours answering my questions. I mean, if you had an opportunity to patch things up with an estranged relative whom you loved more than even yourself, what would you stop at to make it happen? What would you give up to spend just five minutes with them, even if it didn't work out in the end? Just to tell them how you feel, knowing what the alternative is - namely, knowing that you had a chance and never even tried. That you loved someone so much and literally just sat by and let it slip through your fingers. Why? Because you're afraid? Or lazy? I'm not a god - that is to say, in any life but my own - but it seems to me that for someone so powerful and omnipotent, it's a small price to pay for reconciling with your child whom you supposedly love more than anything else. But I guess it's still too great a price. Which is odd, considering how compelling the stories have always made him sound.

He will come to you but you don't believe in him and this stops him from visiting you.

If that is truly the case, then he is of no use to me anyway. I don't believe in things just because I want to. I like to keep fantasy and reality separate. Tends to keep my head in a rational place.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: AfterInfinity

. . . alpha and omega . . .

That part probably means eternal, and the rest of that list is made up as far as I can tell by just looking at the Bible.
What if we have eternal souls too, then what does that make God?
Something like us, I would guess.
My suggestion is that anyone having preconceived ideas about the nature of God should take a hard look at all those items and ask where they come from.

Which leaves me with even less reason to entertain the notion than I had before. Way to go, keep digging while I fetch a ladder...

God doesn't need to ''prove'' His existence. Theists didn't exactly have visions of God in order to believe. Gravity doesn't spare those who don't think it exists. A non-believer in gravity who jumps off a tower still ends up being scraped off. Similarly those who die without believing in God end up in hell fire...where their skins are burnt and are given new skins to experience the pain...over and over and over again. You can't negotiate with God's law the same way you cant negotiate with gravity. Screaming ''I dont believe in gravity'' wont save you after you jump off a tower.

God doesn't need to ''prove'' His existence. Theists didn't exactly have visions of God in order to believe. Gravity doesn't spare those who don't think it exists. A non-believer in gravity who jumps off a tower still ends up being scraped off. Similarly those who die without believing in God end up in hell fire...where their skins are burnt and are given new skins to experience the pain...over and over and over again. You can't negotiate with God's law the same way you cant negotiate with gravity. Screaming ''I dont believe in gravity'' wont save you after you jump off a tower.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
God doesn't need to ''prove'' His existence. Theists didn't exactly have visions of God in order to believe. Gravity doesn't spare those who don't think it exists. A non-believer in gravity who jumps off a tower still ends up being scraped off.

Hmm. Indeed. That's why you never see priests skydiving without a parachute, because gravity is stronger than God.

Similarly those who die without believing in God end up in hell fire...where their skins are burnt and are given new skins to experience the pain...over and over and over again. You can't negotiate with God's law the same way you cant negotiate with gravity. Screaming ''I dont believe in gravity'' wont save you after you jump off a tower.

It's the strangest thing...after reading that, I thought to myself, "Now that really does sound like someone who loves me unconditionally!"

...Oh, wait. No, I didn't think that at all. Come to think of it, it brings to mind an extensive list of psychopaths. And the even stranger thing is, they were always nice people until they had you exactly where they wanted you. Funny how that happens, eh?

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Mammasawakenow
The point is faith he wants us to have faith. He's real and he loves you and wants to have a relationship with you today all you have to do is pray and ask him into your life and forgiveness of your sins

x

And all I ask is that he come down from his mighty throne, have a cup of coffee with me, and spend a few hours answering my questions. I mean, if you had an opportunity to patch things up with an estranged relative whom you loved more than even yourself, what would you stop at to make it happen? What would you give up to spend just five minutes with them, even if it didn't work out in the end? Just to tell them how you feel, knowing what the alternative is - namely, knowing that you had a chance and never even tried. That you loved someone so much and literally just sat by and let it slip through your fingers. Why? Because you're afraid? Or lazy? I'm not a god - that is to say, in any life but my own - but it seems to me that for someone so powerful and omnipotent, it's a small price to pay for reconciling with your child whom you supposedly love more than anything else. But I guess it's still too great a price. Which is odd, considering how compelling the stories have always made him sound.

He will come to you but you don't believe in him and this stops him from visiting you.

If that is truly the case, then he is of no use to me anyway. I don't believe in things just because I want to. I like to keep fantasy and reality separate. Tends to keep my head in a rational place.

First you want to sit down with God and ask numerous questions over a cup of coffee; now you call it fantasy.

You can not have it both ways.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: borntowatch
Arnt these threads boring?
Someone asks a simple question and all the hardened evangelical atheists come thumping their respective Darwinian bibles, to drown out any valid responses.

The question was not does God exist. We know the atheist answer, you all preach it enough, over and over, thank you again, we know your position, hardly can forget it.

What about the original question by the opening poster, can that be answered

If you read the entire thread, I think you'll find the question was answered in great detail from a variety of perspectives. seeing. And yes, your criticism is noted and logged.

Yeah?, but nah
I didnt see a reasoned response, I read the whole thread and couldnt find anything valid in my opinion

No great detail, did I miss something?

a reply to: bigman88

God is loving, and will work with you and your inequity, but who WILL NOT HESITATE to put a hit out on you and your whole damn pagan country, after all the chances he has given you to turn form these false gods that had the population roast their kids on a fire pit to Baal (satan), public orgies, amoral principles pertaining to debt and business, etc.

He is chilled, he is angry. He does good, and he will do evil to get a point across that he tried the peaceful way before. He wants peace, but he'll make some damn war. Hd want's you to be with him in heaven, but if you are not able to straighten yourself ,your soul is weak, unclean, and is now disposable in his eyes.

Like I said.
A bully and an "ass".

The Biblical God is a farce; you can call me disgusting or filthy hippy or a damned pagan all you want. I won't follow a tyrant. The Bible portrays God as those things: bully, tyrant, ass.

You are right, though, that people don't get what God is. BECAUSE WE CAN'T.
No one can. It's beyond comprehension.

God is not a person, and certainly not a parent. Jealous, hateful, vengeful, and ... well, a crap parent.

Do you have kids?
have you ever spent real time, day in and out, night come and gone, and loved them?
You NEVER GIVE UP on your kid.

THAT is unconditional love.

The God you describe is conditional, and mean. I'm not an atheist. I'm an agnostic Deist.

(And if you do have kids, or influence on any, if you are teaching them fear and shame and self-loathing, you are part of the problem the world has.)

Either rewrite the Bible in view of how far our collective knowledge has come, or shelve it in the archives of dusty old tomes that are, in literary terms, nothing but anthologies of disconnected myths and folklore.

It's a huge problem. I refuse to attribute 'human qualities and frailties' to whatever the Source is. You say I anthropomorphized him - I was making an analogy parallel to adjensen's.

I believe in the eternity of the soul, and that we all sprang from the Source.
No punishment required. Just lots and lots of experience and learning...from lifetime to lifetime to eventual release and realization that we are all connected and part of the Overarching Unity that simply 'is.'

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: borntowatch
Arnt these threads boring?
Someone asks a simple question and all the hardened evangelical atheists come thumping their respective Darwinian bibles, to drown out any valid responses.

The question was not does God exist. We know the atheist answer, you all preach it enough, over and over, thank you again, we know your position, hardly can forget it.

What about the original question by the opening poster, can that be answered

If you read the entire thread, I think you'll find the question was answered in great detail from a variety of perspectives. seeing. And yes, your criticism is noted and logged.

Yeah?, but nah
I didnt see a reasoned response, I read the whole thread and couldnt find anything valid in my opinion

No great detail, did I miss something?

The key phrase here being "in my opinion". The trick here is that you're assuming it is entirely up to you to decide whether an observation, statement, or point of view is valid. Quite simply, you're not the sole authority on what is "valid". You're barely an authority, and you are only such so far as the democratic processes by which we examine the subject are concerned. Simply put, your "opinion" is not the end-all of what we're investigating here, so there's no point pretending or implying that it is. If you're not satisfied, please cite specific examples and we'd be more than happy to explore it further. But if all you want to do is say, "Meh, not good enough for me", then clearly, there's nothing more for you to do here besides read and occasionally post a snarky response in an effort to be recognized for your malcontent.

Congratulations you read "in my opinion" in my statement
I tried very hard to make it clear that is was my opinion and I am so very excited you picked up on that little comment.

Being my OPINION means it is up to me to decide what is relevant to me, thank you. Hence the "in my opinion" statement.

I am fully aware I am not the sole authority so I clarified the point, it was my opinion.

Surprised you got that.
Also please note that I finalised the comment with, "did I miss something"

If you can find a well reasoned response amongst all the catty fighting in this thread, please point it out

I dont really need you to point it out, I am not here to argue with people who differ in their respective views, on topics or about my short comings

In my opinion, I havnt seen a valid answer that replys succinctly to the question

You know AI, I dont think you contribute much around here, mostly just an opinion that you try very hard to force on others with great zeal and arrogance, how religiously zealoty of you.
Evangelical atheist? Is that hypocrisy?
Yeah me to.