The Reason why The Bible says Hellfire is a Fabrication of The Truth.

Blue_Jay33
People who still believe in "hell" because non-existence in death is not a strong enough punishment from their perspective, don't know God at all.

And people who know a God that would ever punish, doesn't know God at all

ScottProphhit

Blue_Jay33
People who still believe in "hell" because non-existence in death is not a strong enough punishment from their perspective, don't know God at all.

And people who know a God that would ever punish, doesn't know God at all

So either you have never read the bible, or you just don't believe it then ?

Ponder this, if Judas Iscariot didn't go to hell, and he certainly never went to heaven, what punishment did he receive for knowingly betraying the Son of God ?

Blue_Jay33

ScottProphhit

Blue_Jay33
People who still believe in "hell" because non-existence in death is not a strong enough punishment from their perspective, don't know God at all.

And people who know a God that would ever punish, doesn't know God at all

So either you have never read the bible, or you just don't believe it then ?

Ponder this, if Judas Iscariot didn't go to hell, and he certainly never went to heaven, what punishment did he receive for knowingly betraying the Son of God ?

Well he did feel so guilty he ended up killing himself. I think that was his punishment. After all, New Jerusalem is gonna have his name on it. And he will partake in the judging of the 12 tribes
Rev. 21:12"The wall of the city also had 12 foundation stones, and on them were the 12 names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb."
Matthew 19:28
"Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel."

Blue_Jay33

ScottProphhit

Blue_Jay33
People who still believe in "hell" because non-existence in death is not a strong enough punishment from their perspective, don't know God at all.

And people who know a God that would ever punish, doesn't know God at all

So either you have never read the bible, or you just don't believe it then ?

Ponder this, if Judas Iscariot didn't go to hell, and he certainly never went to heaven, what punishment did he receive for knowingly betraying the Son of God ?

Judas went to heaven. So did Hitler btw

Judas is NOT in heaven, his soul is dead, and he is never coming back to any place hell, heaven or the earth.
And he was was replaced as one of the 12 Apostles, by Matthias.

According to Peter’s words Matthias had been a follower of Christ throughout Jesus’ three-and-a-half-year ministry, had been closely associated with the apostles, and was quite likely one of the 70 disciples or evangelists whom Jesus sent out to preach. After his selection, he was “reckoned along with the eleven apostles” by the congregation, and when the book of Acts immediately thereafter speaks of “the apostles” or “the twelve,” Matthias was included.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Sucks to be Judas then.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I'm glad that so many here are open minded regarding this doctrine and not dismissing it outright.

Two things I love to mention to believers in eternal torment are near death experiences and the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Since I don't feel like typing too much at the moment, i'll paste something here which I typed a bit ago.

You must have heard quite a few people scoff at the stories of near death experiences, mostly atheists. However, how many of these were Christian? I personally have never seen another Christian question these experiences, and that worries me.

You see, I am very big on the paranormal. I've been fascinated with it since I was a kid. Near death/Out of body experiences (NDE's and OBE's respectively) were some of the most interesting to me. For a long time, I believed them at face value. I believed the stories of Heaven and Hell.

However, did you know that every NDE contradicts the scriptures in some way? Actually, the very idea of an NDE is contradictory to the Bible as a whole.

At the very root of these experiences, lies Hell. It is really quite peculiar that Hell has gained such steam in this modern world; to the point where it is spoken about seriously without question. The theme of the vast majority of NDE/OBE's is avoid Hell. But since when was Hell the center of the Gospel?

Through much study, i've realized that Hell has become so ingrained in the minds of Christians (including myself when I was younger) that it became Gospel in itself.

Have you heard the claim that Jesus spoke more on Hell than any other subject? That, my friend, is a straight lie. Did you know that when the Apostles went out to preach, they never spoke about Hell and how to avoid it? Not ONE time. Nowhere did Jesus speak of how terrible it is.

Many cite the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus as proof of its existence; but it is just that, a parable. A story told to make an underlying point. It was never meant to be taken literally. And I don't say that because i'm a "wishy washy" Christian. I say that because you can tell by context.

Not only that, but the story makes no sense if taken in a literal fashion. For example, it says Lazarus laid at the rich man's gate; but then it also says he was next to his table eating scraps. Well, which is it? It cant be both. And does it make sense that such a wealthy person in those times would allow a bum covered in sores to be near him as he's eating?

What about the part of him being in Hell? Well, what are the Rich man's sins? Why is he in Hell? Why is Lazarus in this "bosom"? The parable actually gives us the answer. It says the Rich man received good things in life, now he is tormented. Lazarus received bad things in life, now he is comforted. So, based on the story, if taken literal, they are in their respective conditions based on their lot in their physical life. Does that make sense?

What about the Rich man being in flames? How could he have a coherent conversation as he is burning?

Have you ever been burned? I have, it isn't pleasant, obviously. What makes us think that a person could carry on a conversation while being engulfed in flames? You're too busy being in pain and screaming to talk.

These are just a few of the inconsistencies in taking this story literally. You also have the fact that this was the last story Jesus told in a line of parables. None of the parables that directly preceded this one are taken literally; yet, this one is. Remember, Jesus gave no distinction of this being a true story. He went from one parable and slid right into this one.

There is one thing I should mention about the parable; this is probably the most damning evidence against NDE's: The parable itself contradicts near death experiences.

What happened at the end of the parable? The rich man spoke of his brothers, he didn't want them to come to that place of torment. What was Abraham's response? That they have Moses and the prophets, what they wrote about. And if they wouldn't believe that, they wouldn't believe even if one ROSE from the dead.

What are these near death experiences? Accounts of people dying and coming back to tell the tale. The near death experiences and the parable dont compliment each other, they contradict.

Why would Jesus do the opposite of what He stated? He states that if people dont believe Moses and the prophets that they wouldn't believe even if one came back from death, yet in modern times, that's the norm. Apparently, Jesus needs people to believe in Hell SO bad, that He must show people it exists. But why? I thought people should believe in HIM not Hell. The Gospel is about Jesus, ALL about Jesus, and has absolutely nothing to do with Hell.

Why is it that Jesus, being so silent about this Hell, is now suddenly shouting from the rooftops of it's existence? This, I believe, is a different Jesus.

Throughout the New testament, Faith, the love of God, redemption. These things are spoken of a whole lot more than some Hell. Do you know what else was spoken of more than a supposed Hell? Deception.

Jesus warned of deception more than anything else He has warned about. He said deception would be the norm in the last days. Yet, how many Christians REALLY take this warning to heart? How many can spot deception? Not many.

Whenever I say it is the activity of spirits that bring about these near death experiences; demons, if you'd rather call them that; people say how can an evil spirit show me so much love? People forget that spirits are as different and diverse as people. Demons aren't so black and white, and they all have diverse talents. Not all of them busy themselves with directly destroying one's life or causing woe to a family by haunting their home.

Many of them relegate themselves to deceiving people, by any means necessary.

I cut some parts out that weren't relevant to the topic at hand, so I hope my edits don't throw anyone off.

JudgeEden
. But since when was Hell the center of the Gospel?

Through much study, i've realized that Hell has become so ingrained in the minds of Christians (including myself when I was younger) that it became Gospel in itself.

Have you heard the claim that Jesus spoke more on Hell than any other subject? That, my friend, is a straight lie. Did you know that when the Apostles went out to preach, they never spoke about Hell and how to avoid it? Not ONE time. Nowhere did Jesus speak of how terrible it is.


What about the Rich man being in flames? How could he have a coherent conversation as he is burning?


What happened at the end of the parable? The rich man spoke of his brothers, he didn't want them to come to that place of torment. What was Abraham's response? That they have Moses and the prophets, what they wrote about. And if they wouldn't believe that, they wouldn't believe even if one ROSE from the dead.
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What are these near death experiences? Accounts of people dying and coming back to tell the tale. The near death experiences and the parable dont compliment each other, they contradict.

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Why is it that Jesus, being so silent about this Hell, is now suddenly shouting from the rooftops of it's existence? This, I believe, is a different Jesus.

Throughout the New testament, Faith, the love of God, redemption. These things are spoken of a whole lot more than some Hell. Do you know what else was spoken of more than a supposed Hell? Deception.

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Many of them relegate themselves to deceiving people, by any means necessary.

Thank you for denying ignorance and speaking truths.I cut some parts out so I hope my edits don't throw anyone off.I apologize for cutting it up I just emphasized a few main points.

Yes the main effect of this false belief of hell is it colors someones whole way of thinking and life.They have judged unjustly and have indicted the creator God as doing the same thing.That belief is at the core of all bondage and Yahoshua said accurately that those that believe it will not be forgiven in this age nor the next.Forgiveness means freed from bondage.

The doctrine of the eternal punishment of hell is the antithesis of the Good news that ALL of mankind will be delivered/ saved from the realm of death (hades) which has NOTHING to do with the false doctrine of hell.

The scriptures are very clear about this but many cannot see it though it should be crystal clear that doctrine is diametrical opposed to the nature and character (which is the definition of a name) of Yahoshua which means ..Yahweh(the creator God ) IS deliverance/salvation.