The Reason why The Bible says Hellfire is a Fabrication of The Truth.

Summary: Lake of Fire= Eternal Death

Hell/Hades/Sheol = Grave
Genesis 42:33"(The righteous man Jacob)However, he said: “My son will not go down with you, because his brother is dead and he alone is left. If a fatal accident should befall him on the journey you would make, then you would certainly bring down my gray hairs to the Grave(Hell) in grief.”

2Samuel 22:6"The ropes of the Grave(Hell)* surrounded me;+The snares of death confronted me.+"

Dead people are Unconscious

(NWT)Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten."

(ESV) Ecclesiastes 9:6 "Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun."

(NLT)Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Whatever you do, do well. For when you go to the grave, there will be no work or planning or knowledge or wisdom."

(ESV)Psalms 115:17 "The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence."

1Thessalonians 4:13 "Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope."

Job 14:22 " He feels pain only while he is still in his flesh;
He mourns only while he is still alive.”"

(NWT) Psalms 146:4 " .His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.

Lake of Fire is the Second death
(NWT)Revelations 20:13-15 "And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave (Hell/Hades/Sheol) gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire."

Sodom and Gomorrah afflicted with symbolic everlasting fire/

Jude 7 "In the same manner, Sod′om and Go·mor′rah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality and pursued unnatural fleshly desires they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire."

2 Peter 2:6 "And by reducing the cities of Sod′om and Go·mor′rah to ashes, he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly people of things to come."


Everlasting fire = Everlasting destruction

Luke 12:5 "But I will show you whom to fear: Fear the One who after killing has authority to throw into Ge·hen′na.(Lake of Fire) Yes, I tell you, fear this One.

Matthew 10:28 "And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·hen′na(Lake of Fire)

2 Peter 3:7".......reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people."

1 Corinthians 3 16:17"Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple+ and that the spirit of God dwells in you?+ 17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple."

2 Thessalonians 1:9 " These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, "

Proverbs 27:20 "Sheol(Hell) and destruction are not satisfied, And the eyes of man are not satisfied."

Proverbs 15:11 "Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?"

Tarturus= Prison-like condition for disobedient angels

2 Peter 2:4 "For if God didn't spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;"

Jude1:6 "And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day."

edit on 26-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

reply to post by deeezbeats


Could you clarify your position a bit? Are you an annihilationist??

DeadSeraph
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

Could you clarify your position a bit? Are you an annihilationist??

Yes, and with bible supported reasons.

reply to post by deeezbeats


God wouldn't destroy a perfect creation just based on choices in a physical life, don't take life too seriously it's just a game

reply to post by deeezbeats


Consider the possibility that this is the "hell" Jesus was speaking of...

Coming back to this wretched place over and over again would be hell... in my personal opinion at least

reply to post by Akragon


Consider further that... only those that died as children, and 144k people since the beginning of time have access to heaven while everyone else perishes. From what I see, no one alive today seems to be able to look at what's written in the bible and can say "I have done all of these things that has been commanded in the bible for me to be gain access to heaven".

If all of the bible is to be believed, we are all doom and no one has access to heaven, no matter what, simply because the rules are so much so that no person has been able to get through without blemish.

We're supposed to not stand against our government one bit! Imagine that... If any person has ever disagreed with their government... well, let's just say everyone here would have a really hard time getting into heaven. We are supposed to accept life the way it is without any question or stance.


I have hope, but it's not looking good for the home team. I can only hope that the alternative to everlasting life in heaven is total annialation. Id hate to think I deserve to be burned for all eternity and suffer every moment of pain till the end of times. Though, I've been raised to believe you get one or the other. Suffer or pleasure.

reply to post by deeezbeats


All of this would be more believable if I had not studied the history of the bible. The fact that the word hell doesn't even exist in the originals should be in question here. The fact that the bible is a book in which most church going folks don't even know the history of is an issue to me. If you read the history of the church, in many place, the different religions, the different versions of the bibles it might open your eyes.

I am not saying God is not real, I am not saying Jesus is not real, I am simply saying that there is more to it that you are allowing yourself to learn.

Many religions discourage reading outside their book of choice. If there is nothing to fear, nothing to hide, then why not look for complete truth.

A man would not hide all his money in one place, not if he were smart. So why would God put truth in one place. The truth is for all and applies to all, not to select few.

reply to post by StallionDuck


Can I assume you're a Jehovah's witness?

This idea that only 144k people will gain access to heaven is ridiculous...

Similar to most... IF not all of the book the idea came from

ScottProphhit
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

God wouldn't destroy a perfect creation just based on choices in a physical life, don't take life too seriously it's just a game

Well that's where your wrong. Can't be a christian and say lake of fire doesnt exist.

StallionDuck
reply to post by Akragon

 

Consider further that... only those that died as children, and 144k people since the beginning of time have access to heaven while everyone else perishes. From what I see, no one alive today seems to be able to look at what's written in the bible and can say "I have done all of these things that has been commanded in the bible for me to be gain access to heaven".

If all of the bible is to be believed, we are all doom and no one has access to heaven, no matter what, simply because the rules are so much so that no person has been able to get through without blemish.

We're supposed to not stand against our government one bit! Imagine that... If any person has ever disagreed with their government... well, let's just say everyone here would have a really hard time getting into heaven. We are supposed to accept life the way it is without any question or stance.


I have hope, but it's not looking good for the home team. I can only hope that the alternative to everlasting life in heaven is total annialation. Id hate to think I deserve to be burned for all eternity and suffer every moment of pain till the end of times. Though, I've been raised to believe you get one or the other. Suffer or pleasure.

edit on 26-3-2014 by StallionDuck because: (no reason given)

Not only 144'000 will be saved. Acts 24:15"and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

deeezbeats

DeadSeraph
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

Could you clarify your position a bit? Are you an annihilationist??

Yes, and with bible supported reasons.

I agree that there are grounds for annihilationism. I don't know either way, but there is a good case for it scripturally. In addition to the passages you've shared above, I always found it interesting how the NT refers to Jesus as the giver of "eternal life". "Eternal life" is a term used countless times in the new testament, which seems to hint (on the surface at least) that the alternative is permanent death (or the 2nd death as the bible calls it). Why call it eternal life if the alternative is eternal life, just spent in hell?

I think both sides have good arguments but I lean towards annihilationism for the truly wicked. I think it's also interesting to consider what jewish people believe, since Christianity comes from that faith. What we can learn from the jewish traditions, is that there are a wide variety of beliefs on the subject, and most Jewish Rabbi's do not actually believe in eternal damnation, but rather a set period of time spent in a "hell" where one repents or reviews the actions of their life, later to join everyone else in a more heavenly realm. Some of the Jewish views I found interesting:

-Some contend that when you're dead you're dead. There is no afterlife.

-Others believe the above is true, until the resurrection after/during The Day of The Lord. Once the resurrection takes place, souls depart to their various destinations

-Some say that only the truly righteous ascend to the highest level of heaven. Generally good people go to the next level. "Evil" people go to Gehenna, where they stay for 3 months to one year to work off their sins, and the truly wicked stay there for eternity, or are annihilated after they have spent a certain amount of time there.

-Some believe that Gehenna is like the Christian version of hell, while others consider it a place of repentance and learning. The latter view considers it an unpleasant place to be, but not a place of torture.

-Other views state that everyone goes to the same place: Sheol. A sort of shadowy underworld sort of similar to the greek concept of the afterlife for mortals.

So we can see from the religion that Christianity was based on and which predates it, that there are mixed views on what takes place in the afterlife. One thing that seems to be apparent though, is that the Jewish tradition has a much less harsh view of punishment in the afterlife, and most of them believe that "hell" is not eternal (for most souls).

Zaimless
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

All of this would be more believable if I had not studied the history of the bible. The fact that the word hell doesn't even exist in the originals should be in question here. The fact that the bible is a book in which most church going folks don't even know the history of is an issue to me. If you read the history of the church, in many place, the different religions, the different versions of the bibles it might open your eyes.

I am not saying God is not real, I am not saying Jesus is not real, I am simply saying that there is more to it that you are allowing yourself to learn.

Many religions discourage reading outside their book of choice. If there is nothing to fear, nothing to hide, then why not look for complete truth.

A man would not hide all his money in one place, not if he were smart. So why would God put truth in one place. The truth is for all and applies to all, not to select few.

It's true the bible has been misused by imperfect humans. I guarentee God wasn't pleased with that either. Only be glad we don't live in a time as such anymore. Many churches Nowadays are money-making scams. Not all but some. The church I go to actually teaches you about the bible. Not really any other religious texts to compete with bible other than koran, but that's about it.

*looks through the thread a bit*

...

There is a strong case to be made for Annihilation,

Does it matter? No, as christian, it wouldn't, its a theological sticking point to divide.

Most denominations still cling to the Catholic view and changing of the THREE separate words used, to lump INTO hell, I could write a long thread on this one matter alone (not even Annihilation but the changing of the original wordings)

As for the 144k comment someone brought up, it relies on replacement theology of the turn of the century and is an outdated theology based on the fact Israel was not a nation at the time the religions that expound it form.

Rather than admit a miss-interpretation they went with it.


ETA:

I understand the last line may seem like a dig at JW, its not, there are many things the JW expound that are factually correct, but like the Annihilation point I feel its just more excuses to Schism.

deeezbeats

ScottProphhit
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

God wouldn't destroy a perfect creation just based on choices in a physical life, don't take life too seriously it's just a game

Well that's where your wrong. Can't be a christian and say lake of fire doesnt exist.

The problem with this statement is that it assumes to know what purpose the lake of fire serves. For instance in revelations it is said: "Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire". We don't know who that whoever is. We only know that their names are not found written in the book of life, which could imply that they are fallen angels.

There are sound reasons to question the concept of eternal damnation. In the end, your salvation is not dependent on whether or not you believe in eternal hell for human souls. Regardless of whether such a thing exists or not, the New Testament declares that your salvation depends on your relationship with Jesus Christ. If you reject that gift of salvation, the result is unpleasant regardless of what it is, so to say you can't be a Christian if you don't believe in eternal damnation for people in the lake of fire is an erroneous statement.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I blame bible translators and there lack of knowledge of certain words. Like when jesus said "You will be liable to the fiery gehenna" Many bibles actually put Hell, when one is the realm of the dead and the other was in biblical times a garbage incenerator outside the walls of Jerusalem. And of course the confusing of Tartarus with Hades(grave).

reply to post by deeezbeats


It was Outter, not Fiery,

Its the

Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and it was outside Israel,

and

In the Hebrew Bible, the site was initially where apostate Israelites and followers of various Ba'als and Caananite gods, including Moloch, sacrificed their children by fire

the analogy makes more sense now right? with a Jewish view of the txt

DeadSeraph

deeezbeats

ScottProphhit
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

God wouldn't destroy a perfect creation just based on choices in a physical life, don't take life too seriously it's just a game

Well that's where your wrong. Can't be a christian and say lake of fire doesnt exist.

The problem with this statement is that it assumes to know what purpose the lake of fire serves. For instance in revelations it is said: "Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire". We don't know who that whoever is. We only know that their names are not found written in the book of life, which could imply that they are fallen angels.

That is true. I'm all about lake of fire awareness. Once I started talking to people who were Ex-Christian/athiest, I realised how much the literal hellfire doctrine made them bitterly angry towards God.But I don't blame em. Who knows how many christians could have been preserved only if they knew the truth.

deeezbeats

DeadSeraph

deeezbeats

ScottProphhit
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

God wouldn't destroy a perfect creation just based on choices in a physical life, don't take life too seriously it's just a game

Well that's where your wrong. Can't be a christian and say lake of fire doesnt exist.

The problem with this statement is that it assumes to know what purpose the lake of fire serves. For instance in revelations it is said: "Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire". We don't know who that whoever is. We only know that their names are not found written in the book of life, which could imply that they are fallen angels.

That is true. I'm all about lake of fire awareness. Once I started talking to people who were Ex-Christian/athiest, I realised how much the literal hellfire doctrine made them bitterly angry towards God.But I don't blame em. Who knows how many Christians could have been preserved only if they knew the truth.

I find it strange that most of Atheist, and Ex-christian, DOCTRINE specific problems with the bible, tend to stem from the corruption that came with Christianity becoming the STATE religion of Rome.

Many things the Protestant reformation fixed, Yet still kept many of the false things, LIke Christmas and Easter, solstices festivals.

reply to post by deeezbeats


I really recommend looking into Jewish beliefs. There is a link in my 2nd reply in this thread that covers some of the various rabbinical opinions on the subject. It's quite interesting. Some of them even believe that people will have a chance to repent right up to the gates of hell. I can't imagine choosing hell if you were given a choice, but I guess I've heard some people say "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven", so maybe some would choose it.

It's interesting to read about the various beliefs on the subject at any rate, since Judaism predates Christianity and Jesus himself was Jewish.

Here is the link again incase you missed it in my giant wall of text lol

link

benrl

deeezbeats

DeadSeraph

deeezbeats

ScottProphhit
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

God wouldn't destroy a perfect creation just based on choices in a physical life, don't take life too seriously it's just a game

Well that's where your wrong. Can't be a christian and say lake of fire doesnt exist.

The problem with this statement is that it assumes to know what purpose the lake of fire serves. For instance in revelations it is said: "Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire". We don't know who that whoever is. We only know that their names are not found written in the book of life, which could imply that they are fallen angels.

That is true. I'm all about lake of fire awareness. Once I started talking to people who were Ex-Christian/athiest, I realised how much the literal hellfire doctrine made them bitterly angry towards God.But I don't blame em. Who knows how many Christians could have been preserved only if they knew the truth.

I find it strange that most of Atheist, and Ex-christian, DOCTRINE specific problems with the bible, tend to stem from the corruption that came with Christianity becoming the STATE religion of Rome.

Many things the Protestant reformation fixed, Yet still kept many of the false things, LIke Christmas and Easter, solstices festivals.

Not sure of exactly what was changed during Constantines rules, mind telling me.