Beijing-bound MAS plane carrying 239 people missing as of 20 mins ago.

reply to post by Bilk22


So a commercial company, with no ties to the government is going to be in on it too then?

OatDelphi
CNN is reporting the tickets were purchased for the two individuals by a well known Iranian who has had a number of purchases from the same travel agency.

The Iranian contact can't possibly be "well known" if everyone only knows him by "Mr Ali" and his current whereabouts remain a mystery but the travel agent said she has known him for 3 years. Benjaporn Krutnait (the travel agent), who's the owner of the Grand Horizon Travel in Thailand said the Iranian was a long-term business contact who she only knew by "Mr Ali". Mr Ali asked her to book tickets to Europe for the two men, but the tickets expired when Ms Benjaporn did not hear back from Mr Ali. The last time Mr Ali contacted her was on Thursday 6th March and she rebooked the men through Beijing because it was the cheapest flight available, the flight was paid for by another man, not Mr Ali. Here are the tickets purchased by the two individuals using stolen passports to support Benjaporn's claims:




The numbers on the bottom left of both the tickets are contiguous indicating they were purchased together.

In my opinion, Mr Ali can't be linked to terrorism as he did not specify this specific flight to be booked, he simply wanted the fastest route to Europe and there's no evidence to suggest he knew the pair were travelling on stolen passports. Travelling on stolen passports is very common, particularly when it comes to illegal migration to the West.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Bilk22

 

Quite trying to twist what I said. If the plane went into a spiral, it could be closer to Vietnam, it could be closer to Malaysia, or it could have even come back over land and impacted the ground.

You know for a fact that every single inch of the Gulf of Thailand has been searched? And now they're searching on land? You know this absolutely?

Not twisting what you said at all. What does spiral mean? How would you describe to a layperson what you mean here? Are you saying it flew for possibly hundreds of miles crippled then crashed at a much farther point than would be anticipated? That sounds much better. No?

Zaphod58
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

They were out over the Gulf of Thailand at the time. That would put them very close to the edge of radar coverage for the area, and near a blind spot between Malaysia and Vietnam. Radar can only see so far because of the curve of the horizon.

Interestingly, most NORAD coverage comes from FAA radars.

And who would know about the curve, about the blind spot..

Lets forget about the plane for a minute.

Lets look at the people on board.

If someone wanted to destroy it as a terrorist act, by conventional means, then the plane would be in tiny bits all over the ocean along with the passengers.

What if the plane isn't / wasn't the objective.

The fact the transponder just swithched off and they lost all contact and reference is remenisant of 9/11.

What if the people aboard were the objective. Who are they.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Bilk22

 

So a commercial company, with no ties to the government is going to be in on it too then?

China South is not a private company as we know it. Read the wiki page on it. It's the sixth largest carrier world wide by number of passengers.

If the plane did turn, could it have made it closer to a coastline? Could the plane have crashed near the coast and most debris washed ashore quickly, or some thing like that? So like a poster said a few pages ago...are they searching by land as well?

Oh...and Zaph just asked it too...

reply to post by Bilk22


I mean exactly what I said. It went into a spiral, meaning it circled as it descended. Not so hard to understand is it? It circled, around, and crashed. Meaning that while they're looking close to Vietnam, it could be close to Malaysia, or farther to the East than they're looking.

MRuss

Well, one thing is for sure.

You'll see a tightening of the world's passport system after this crash, no?

Action equals reaction.

The powers that be are all over the news today speculating on tightening the reigns over yet another system. Wonder what they'll slip by us this time.

I doubt it. The rules have been in place for over a decade. Other than North America, they just aren't enforced that rigorously or consistently. Keep in mind that according to Interpol there are over 40 million of them out there.

I travel internationally often, several times a year. Often - very often - I am only asked to show the front of my closed passport. It just isnt that big a deal in many countries. That said, that doesnt mean that this plane wasnt hijacked or blown up by people holding fake or stolen passports. It just wont change the rules or how they are enforced.

OK playing catch up.

If the the story is true that "actual" family members are calling cell phones of loved ones that are aboard the aircraft. And those phones are ringing..this is incredible.

So how does this happen when phones are in a non coverage area?

1:The phone will give the ringing tone if it is on..then going onto the leave a message recording..did that happen?

2:Or if the phone is out of its service area...the caller will get the message saying that the cell phone they are try to reach is out of its coverage area..did that happen? And any phone that's dead goes straight to voicemail.

3: did everyone on board happen to keep their cell phones in plastic zip-lock bags in case of a water landing?

4: how come no one is answering on the other end? Or texting out for help? Or in this day and age...not texting period?

5: if the aircraft was hijacked..why were these cell phones not rounded up and destroyed assuming the plane was taken to a land location where they know a phone can be tracked and give away their location?

6: the only other way I see this happening for cell phones to be working..is not 2 or 4 hijackers IF SO..but the entire flight...ALL of those on
board are in on it.. That's the only way to allow for phones to still be functioning and on.

As for he cell phones...not sure this one sticks either.


Edit: I might give this story thought if it came from gizmodo or wired.....but not the examiner...

Jagger

OatDelphi
CNN is reporting the tickets were purchased for the two individuals by a well known Iranian who has had a number of purchases from the same travel agency.

The Iranian contact can't possibly be "well known" if everyone only knows him by "Mr Ali" and his current whereabouts remain a mystery but the travel agent said she has known him for 3 years. Benjaporn Krutnait (the travel agent), who's the owner of the Grand Horizon Travel in Thailand said the Iranian was a long-term business contact who she only knew by "Mr Ali". Mr Ali asked her to book tickets to Europe for the two men, but the tickets expired when Ms Benjaporn did not hear back from Mr Ali. The last time Mr Ali contacted her was on Thursday 6th March and she rebooked the men through Beijing because it was the cheapest flight available, the flight was paid for by another man, not Mr Ali. Here are the tickets purchased by the two individuals using stolen passports to support Benjaporn's claims:

The numbers on the bottom left of both the tickets are contiguous indicating they were purchased together.

In my opinion, Mr Ali can't be linked to terrorism as he did not specify this specific flight to be booked, he simply wanted the fastest route to Europe and there's no evidence to suggest he knew the pair were travelling on stolen passports. Travelling on stolen passports is very common, particularly when it comes to illegal migration to the West.

How would he not know they would be using stolen passports when the names were not those of the people who actually boarded the plane and he was the person who made the arrangements?

This plane is not hijacked' somewhere.... I'm sorry to be the Paul Bearer but this plane has crashed and everyone is dead...

Now how it crashed and where it is, anybodies guess, the ocean is SO large even a plane, is a needle in a haystack..

There are sharks that are out there hungry 24/7, and now 3 days later, no sight of anything, the chances are a probable 100% everyone is dead....

Sad, it really is.

What is sickening me is the incompetent Chinese, Vietnamese, and Malaysians that can't find this plane still.

I mean making the families wait even longer, they should be ashamed of themselves, they should put more effort into ending this ASAP... OK... FIND THEM with the wussy footing around and double the search efforts!!

reply to post by Bilk22


Read. Read carefully. In fact, let me bold it for you.

If it was in Nanming, there are satellites that photograph China that would have seen it. Both commercial and government.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Bilk22

 

I mean exactly what I said. It went into a spiral, meaning it circled as it descended. Not so hard to understand is it? It circled, around, and crashed. Meaning that while they're looking close to Vietnam, it could be close to Malaysia, or farther to the East than they're looking.

They haven't considered that and looked in those locations? How wide of a spiral would they be able to accomplish if the plane were crippled at 30k feet? Physics still comes into play here I would think.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Bilk22

 

Read. Read carefully. In fact, let me bold it for you.

If it was in Nanming, there are satellites that photograph China that would have seen it. Both commercial and government.

And let me reiterate, there may be reason to not yet report on it.

reply to post by Jagger


1st CNN is the one reporting he was "well known" (not my words) to the travel agency because as you have mentioned he has been conducting business with the same travel agency for 3 years.

Now Mr. Ali originally (according to the travel agency) wanted to purchase tickets for the 1st of March but the travel agency put the two individuals on separate planes. Mr. Ali never completed the transaction with those specific tickets but did call back on Thursday to again purchase tickets for the individuals. This time around they were on the same plane so the transaction was completed.

In my post I wasn't inferring what the reason for them purchasing tickets was, I was simply reporting what CNN was stating. As you can then see I immediately found an NBC source who was verifying the same info.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Bilk22

 

It's not a strawman at all. It's a simple fact that there have been no incidents that I have heard of where a plane was missing for three plus days, where the plane had NOT landed. If it was in Nanming, there are satellites that photograph China that would have seen it. Both commercial and government. If there was suddenly a 777 sitting there surrounded by vehicles, that didn't move for days, don't you think someone would have said something?

The Chinese aren't exactly known for their freedom of information.

reply to post by Bilk22


Where did you get China Southern has a hub there? The airport at Nanming is the Guiyang Longdongbao Airport. Their hubs are located at Beijing Capital International Airport, Chongqing Jiangbei International Airport, Guangzhou Baiyan International Airport, and Urumqi Diwopu International Airport. Nanming isn't even one of their focus cities.

reply to post by onefellswoop


And what does that have to do with it. It was near Malaysia and Vietnam where they're searching, and where the last contact was.

reply to post by Bilk22


There are 40 ships and aircraft. How big of an area do you think they can search in three days with that small of a SAR force? Yes, they may have thought about it, but it's going to take time to search that big of an area.

reply to post by Leonidas


i beg to differ. If the the passport/terrorism story ends up as the cause, i'm thinking more will be checked. Or i guess i should say i'd like to believe a change in the system would occur.

I travel to Germany some times, and i go through so many security check points, i feel safe on that flight, and if one just disappeared with security measures like in the USA or Lufthansa, i would immediately think mechanical problem. So naturally you can see how one might think the passports play a role...