Beijing-bound MAS plane carrying 239 people missing as of 20 mins ago.

Zaphod58
reply to post by roadgravel

 

It looks like it was right near the edge of the Malaysian Primary coverage area.

I haven't found anything reliable one way or the other. I am starting to think it was out of range so it is not clear if the plane may have descended to the ocean intact. There are articles citing radar review but they are not clear. Given the search situation, it seems to back up the idea of no primary.

reply to post by roadgravel


They were about to hand off to Vietnam, which would put them far enough out that the Primary signal would be spotty. It appears that after the ADS-b went out there were at least a few seconds of tracking data, showing what appears to be a turn, and possibly a dive.

Wonderful. When I heard the news about the passports I knew it wasn't good either way.

Either they're just traveling with false ID and had no ill-intent for the plane, or they were terrorists and did intend to take the plane. Either way, we're all going to probably have to jump through even more hoops when traveling.

I remember it took them a while to find that AirFrance plane. I wouldn't be surprised if this plane is found in the next 2-3 days. What bothers me is that there was no mayday, no indication things were amiss until it dropped off the screen.

Zaph, if we can detect something the size of a large bird with military radar, shouldn't the militaries of the area have a fairly good idea where the plane went "missing"? I mean, governments are constantly sweeping the skies with radar for their own security, right? How can a plane just go "missing" when NORAD and other agencies supposedly know where everything is at all times?

solargeddon
On the subject of finding the plane....couldn't they just look up all the mobile numbers belonging to the people on the flight manifest and communicate with the network providers to triangulate the last known position of each mobile phone?

Would it help?

It might not, but surely someone on that flight had an active mobile at the time of the crash, just a thought.

edit on 10-3-2014 by solargeddon because: Typos!

At cruising altitude, the odds of a cell-phone being able to pick up a signal are exceptionally small.

Except for the 9/11 cell phones that is.

If the supposed phone calls by the families of passengers took place, then this should be possible.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


They were out over the Gulf of Thailand at the time. That would put them very close to the edge of radar coverage for the area, and near a blind spot between Malaysia and Vietnam. Radar can only see so far because of the curve of the horizon.

Interestingly, most NORAD coverage comes from FAA radars.

Since there's other baseless speculation being thrown around here, I'm throwing in my two cents. A UFO caused the plane to disappear without a trace as was the case with Frederich Valentich's Cessna over Australia in 1978. They're just advancing to bigger planes now. Right now this theory hold's just as much water as any other speculation, until proven otherwise.

watchesfromwall

MRuss
reply to post by Leonidas

 

I just think it's hard to compare this to the Air France crash.

That crash was way the heck out there near the equator in the South Atlantic Ocean in the middle of nowhere--literally. The water was incredibly deep and the area was known for the worst weather imaginable.

This "disappearance" on the other hand is in a more defined region, much more shallow water abounds compared to where the Air France flight crashed. Land masses are nearby.

Still a needle in a haystack, but a much smaller haystack which makes the needle even bigger.

Agreed that the 2 shouldn't be compared for the reasons you point out.

Also, In the AF crash, I think they knew at least the "what happened" but not the "why/where" scenarios.

DOES anyone have a similar Boeing accident that would serve worthy of comparison???

Egypt Air 990. Suicidal pilot or pilots in MH370.

Leonidas

Bilk22

Leonidas

Bilk22

Leonidas
When AirFrance447 crashed into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009 they didn't find any trace of it for a week.

It took another TWO YEARS to find the FDR/CVR Black-Boxes.

So people can be patient to find out what really happened or just throw out wild and baseless conjecture about bombs, missiles, hijackings and other nefarious plots as "What must have happened".

At present there are not enough facts to develop any kind of conclusion whatsoever.

Patience people.

edit on 10-3-2014 by Leonidas because: (no reason given)

LEO you don't like my theory?

Hey seems the passports weren't as insignificant as you believed. But it was good reason to use to get our LEOs involved

Seems that the fact that interpol reports that 40,000,000 fake passports are out there and that outside the US, diligence in checking them at the airport is not what you would hope doesnt affect people's need to make the passports a critical issue.

There are several facts and articles quoted here and on the internet about the ridiculous number of fake and stolen passports are out there and how they are used.

What I find interesting is that some people get committed to a theory and refuse to let it go, regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary.

Go back into the thread to see all the quoted articles and statistics regarding your pet issue.

You know I was wondering what evidence to the contrary there is? We only know that people boarded that plane illegally. You don't seem to want to pay any consideration to that aspect. You want to go off on a tangent claiming it probably blew up or catastrophically destructed without any evidence of such.

You are completely ignoring what I have written.

Way back before you got on your hobby horse, I said that the passport issue is possibility but that other aspects need to be investigated first and more importantly.

When I first made that point the only hard data I had on stolen passports was from US for one year and that number was over 50,000. It now turns out that there are over 40,000,000 out there. So ubiquitous that Interpol said that pretty much every international flight has at least a couple of people with stolen or forged documents on board.

Find the debris, then the FDR/CVR. Then discover what really happened.

But go ahead and fixate on the passports all you want. You could be right, by chance.

Stolen passports are used for many things and probably used more for nefarious identity thefts other than air travel. It's why Interpol keeps track of them and why it's probably more difficult to use them for that purpose.

Now lets' stick to what we know. Passengers boarded the plane with false identities. We don't know it blew up. We don't know there was mechanical failure. We don't know where it is, but we do know about the passports. Disengaging that from this incident is way premature, don't you think?

reply to post by Bilk22


Show me another instance where a plane was missing for 3 days, and hadn't crashed. With or without fake passports on board.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


I was just this morning saying to a friend, given the lapses in passport checks, it just goes to show that all these "anti-terror" measures are in place for one thing and one thing alone....they just want to know more about people as individuals, not whether they pose any terror threat, just the threat of posessing original thought, that might somehow lead to questioning status quo.

There was this

KELANTAN: A businessman in Ketereh claimed that he saw a bright white light, believed to be of an aircraft, descending at high speed towards the South China Sea about 1.45am on the day flight MH370 went missing.
Alif Fathi Abdul Hadi, 29, told the New Straits Times what he saw after lodging a report with the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) in Tok Bali earlier today.
Alif said he was in the compound of his home when he saw the bright white light, which he described as similar to the ones used by airplanes during night flights.
"I was walking towards my back door when I caught a glimpse of the white light.
"It was moving towards the sea, towards Bachok area, which was unusual.

Maybe it did turn and got closer the the coast.

Map

Zaphod58
reply to post by Bilk22

 

Show me another instance where a plane was missing for 3 days, and hadn't crashed. With or without fake passports on board.

Come on man. That's a strawman's argument. I'd expect more here.

Here's a similar tactic. Show me an example where destroyed cell phones still ring days later.

reply to post by roadgravel


If they tried to turn it could have gone into a spiral, and wound up almost anywhere.

It's looking more and more like this plane didn't blow up or crash.

Hijacking still remains a huge possibility (whether by humans or aliens).

I just hope two things: 1. that the crew and passengers are alive and 2. that this is not all giving the friends and families false hope.

I honestly don't get this. On Saturday, the airline was acting as if they were sure the people were gone. Now this.

Even the MSM is getting a hair up about this.

How often do you see this kind of headline from a major player?

Vanished: What happened to Flight 370?

Zaphod58
reply to post by roadgravel

 

If they tried to turn it could have gone into a spiral, and wound up almost anywhere.

Now this is getting beyond the realm of reasonable and beyond physics. If the plane was compromised at the point of last contact, then it couldn't be "almost anywhere". It would be within a reasonable range, which has been searched extensively.

reply to post by Bilk22


It's not a strawman at all. It's a simple fact that there have been no incidents that I have heard of where a plane was missing for three plus days, where the plane had NOT landed. If it was in Nanming, there are satellites that photograph China that would have seen it. Both commercial and government. If there was suddenly a 777 sitting there surrounded by vehicles, that didn't move for days, don't you think someone would have said something?

Well, one thing is for sure.

You'll see a tightening of the world's passport system after this crash, no?

Action equals reaction.

The powers that be are all over the news today speculating on tightening the reigns over yet another system. Wonder what they'll slip by us this time.

reply to post by Bilk22


Quite trying to twist what I said. If the plane went into a spiral, it could be closer to Vietnam, it could be closer to Malaysia, or it could have even come back over land and impacted the ground.

You know for a fact that every single inch of the Gulf of Thailand has been searched? And now they're searching on land? You know this absolutely?

Zaphod58
reply to post by Bilk22

 

It's not a strawman at all. It's a simple fact that there have been no incidents that I have heard of where a plane was missing for three plus days, where the plane had NOT landed. If it was in Nanming, there are satellites that photograph China that would have seen it. Both commercial and government. If there was suddenly a 777 sitting there surrounded by vehicles, that didn't move for days, don't you think someone would have said something?

What makes you believe that the satellite information would be released at this time? Maybe there are reasons to have the terror group believe the plane went down too.

China South has a hub exactly where it was reported to have landed. Right now that's better information than anything else we have.

Bilk22

Zaphod58
reply to post by Bilk22

 

Show me another instance where a plane was missing for 3 days, and hadn't crashed. With or without fake passports on board.

Come on man. That's a strawman's argument. I'd expect more here.

Here's a similar tactic. Show me an example where destroyed cell phones still ring days later.

1. You got the definition of a "Straw man argument wrong"

2. You dont travel internationally much, so I will tell you that phones roaming internationally often ring repeatedly sometimes going to voicemail, sometimes not, regardless of whether they are even on. It is extremely common.

Speaking of "expecting more here" I could not agree more. We dont need people who ignore comments and evidence so they can stay fixated on their favorite topic.

We expect more. Indeed.