Beijing-bound MAS plane carrying 239 people missing as of 20 mins ago.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Thank you for the reply, so this is what we were always told from the start which is that after take of to until it disappeared in the northern Straits of Malacca was 2 hours... then what we have always been told is that it flew for another 5 hours from there.

So nothing is changed... the range was 5 hours flying from north of Banda Acheh (Sumatra) presumably flying at 23,000ft.

My previous post that the range had to be 497nm is based on the radar horizon from a 130 metre ATC tower at Kuala Lumpur airport.

For Malaysian authorities to know that it flew at 45,000ft they would have only been able to deduce that with primary radar if they saw it 497nm distance from Kuala Lumpur. This is approximately the correct track for that first 2 hours and interestingly if you measure the path length that also equals 2 hours' flying.



This also means that the Malaysian Government lied about the aircraft's position in the Gulf of Thailand to exclude or discredit the sighting from the oil rig worker off Vietnam.

WordsAreAvenues
Reddit finds wreckage?

Well this is interesting...

edit on 17-3-2014 by WordsAreAvenues because: (no reason given)

Crew on a Greek flagged oil tanker are responding to radio reports of suit cases found floating in the Straits of Malacca, between Malaysia and Indonesia, Greek media reported. The Oil and chemical tanker, the Elka Athina, reported to media that it was steaming toward a zone identified as a field of debris, including what appeared to be aircraft passenger's luggage.

Thank you for this information, maybe now they can find the aircraft and black boxes.

sy.gunson
So nothing is changed... the range was 5 hours flying from north of Banda Acheh (Sumatra) presumably flying at 23,000ft.

I think this is correct, but I wouldn't presume 23,000 feet for any more than we have records of it, which is certainly not the full 5 hours.

There may be some confusion between the 7.5 hours total time, and the 5 hours of additional flight time with some people misinterpreting the 7 hours as additional flight time, but it's only 5.5 additional hours and we don't know how much of that was flying.

WordsAreAvenues
Reddit finds wreckage?

Well this is interesting...

I don't think so...people seem to be seeing things that aren't there, but people see all kinds of things in Mars rocks I don't see either, so I'm not too surprised.

Arbitrageur

WordsAreAvenues
Reddit finds wreckage?

Well this is interesting...

I don't think so...people seem to be seeing things that aren't there, but people see all kinds of things in Mars rocks I don't see either, so I'm not too surprised.

You're right, but the submerged object looks an awful lot like the plane overlay. Either that or it's photoshopped.

Does anyone think in future that commercial planes must (as in a mandatory requireement) have separate operating GPS-devices (or that kind of thing) located in various parts of the plane should this kind of situation (or a crash), arise again? Thus, making it easier to find?

Or is that entirely improbable to achieve in the next decade?

auroraaus
Does anyone think in future that commercial planes must (as in a mandatory requireement) have separate operating GPS-devices (or that kind of thing) located in various parts of the plane should this kind of situation (or a crash), arise again? Thus, making it easier to find?

Or is that entirely improbable to achieve in the next decade?

Unless it's a one world government, I don't see how it could be made mandatory everywhere.

Certain counties could require it though.

Comes down to cost/benefit ratio -$

reply to post by watchesfromwall


Oh yeah! I forgot about $$$! cheers

As I understand it, the Greek tanker report is based on a mis-translation. It seems they were asked to look out FOR crash debris such as suitcases etc and not go to look AT crash debris.

Someone posted a position and tracking for the Greek Tanker a few pages ago and it was not at nor had it visited the exact coordinates I believe. (shown from its previous tracking line and was heading away from the coordinates as far as I could see)

JRCrowley

Vasa Croe

JRCrowley

Vasa Croe
We will see this plane again in a major attack....just a feeling I have.

More false flag fear-mongering.

I mean come on, are you Dick Cheney? lol

Sorry but do you just wait for me to post to post something? Seems you, like another poster, have some bone to pick and are all about downplaying the role of extremists and terrorists in this type of situation.

I would really like to hear your theory on this situation in particular. I have put mine out there numerous times.

I feel this plane was hijacked by entities with Iranian ties. The plane was depressurized killing all passengers quickly. It was landed and is being fitted with a bomb. The avionics team is switching codes and it will fly under radar to a location that is heavily scrutinized and detonated.

My theory on location may have changed but the logic behind it is sound and can be done.

A simple comment about fear mongering and relating it to a complete FAIL of a politician does nothing for discarding the theory.

No, I don't "just wait for you to post to post something" but I do feel compelled to reply to certain posts more than others - just like every other person on ATS.

I've put my theory out there countless times. I'll to it again. This was a plane crash over the ocean and they can't find the wreckage yet. Yes, I am aware - as is the rest of the world - that there are bizarre technical and situational anomalies surrounding this accident, but I still contend that there will be a mundane, albeit very sad, end to all of this sooner or later.

Interesting how you like to keep beating the drum about "the role of extremists and terrorists". If you're still confused about why I gravitate towards responding to posts like yours it's because I have a disdain for bs, and that quote pretty much encompasses it. Using those terms constantly places you right in the category of government shill.

I highly doubt the good folks here on ATS are so asleep and still under the bizarre impression that the terms "extremist" and "terrorist" only refer to muslims living in caves and planning assaults on amurica. But it seems you're doing your best to push that agenda.

And I do find it interesting that your avatar is a photo of an owl. What's the Illuminati message there I wonder? lol

I don't downplay the role of extremism. I just know where most of it is coming from in this world, and it isn't scary moozlems living in caves.

edit on 16-3-2014 by JRCrowley because: (no reason given)

Im sorry...I cant recall any post where I have said muslim terrorists were behind this attack. Maybe get you head out of your a$$ and read what I've posted.

Yes....I believe extremists or terrorists were behind this attack and yes I believe Iran is involved. If you want to read muslim into that then that is your issue....I certainly never said it.

You call me a shill yet you are the one putting words into my mouth and pushing some agenda...so what exactly is your point?

Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting. My thought is you are the shill trying to distract.

What does my avatars have to do with anything? Paranoid a little but are we? Had the same avatar since I signed up here.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


It was mentioned last night but I am with you I don't see anything although I'm not familiar with analysing satellite images but I don't see any wreckage??

Mystery of family moving out day before apparently came from their maid

photo of maid at home of MH370 pilot. Norhayati Wahiduddin.told local tabloid wife & children moved out day before t.co...

From Laura rozen on twitter

Also on twitter from jonathan Samuel investigators are looking into a flight engineer who was on board.

qmantoo
As I understand it, the Greek tanker report is based on a mis-translation. It seems they were asked to look out FOR crash debris such as suitcases etc and not go to look AT crash debris.

Someone posted a position and tracking for the Greek Tanker a few pages ago and it was not at nor had it visited the exact coordinates I believe. (shown from its previous tracking line and was heading away from the coordinates as far as I could see)

I can confirm this, and the tracking site, too. The earliest stuff I came across about it not actively looking, but merely keeping an eye open was in, again, the Reddit thread I've been lurking. I'm not sure if it's considered a competitor site and therefore a no-no to link, so I'll just give the thread name (Comprehensive timeline: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 DAY 9) and tell you to google it and track down those posts yourself. It's a huuuge thread, and yes, I'm that lazy.

Arbitrageur

sy.gunson
So nothing is changed... the range was 5 hours flying from north of Banda Acheh (Sumatra) presumably flying at 23,000ft.

I think this is correct, but I wouldn't presume 23,000 feet for any more than we have records of it, which is certainly not the full 5 hours.

There may be some confusion between the 7.5 hours total time, and the 5 hours of additional flight time with some people misinterpreting the 7 hours as additional flight time, but it's only 5.5 additional hours and we don't know how much of that was flying.

WordsAreAvenues
Reddit finds wreckage?

Well this is interesting...

I don't think so...people seem to be seeing things that aren't there, but people see all kinds of things in Mars rocks I don't see either, so I'm not too surprised.

It is the same source the Malaysian Air Force which reported it was measured by primary radar climbing to 45,000ft which also reported it descended to 23,000ft.

It is nothing to do with rocks on Mars. It is simple trigonometry. Take a 130m tower and calculate the radar horizon for a primary radar. The Malaysian Government could not know with Primary radar what height it was unless they observed it disappear off radar at 497nm distance. Interestingly 497nm from RMAF Butterworth still locates the aircraft in the same vicinity off the Mekong delta.

For them to claim it reappeared flying at 23,000ft it would have been 200nm from RMAF Butterworth over the Gulf of Thailand.

The Berita Harian news article dated 11th March 2014 confirmed it was radar at Butterworth which tracked the flight returning and flying through the Straits of Malacca at 2:40am local time.

Radar signals recorded by the Malaysian military appeared to show that the missing airliner climbed to 45,000 feet, above the approved altitude limit for a Boeing 777-200, soon after it disappeared from civilian radar and turned sharply to the west...

The radar track, which the Malaysian government has not released but says it has provided to the United States and China, showed the plane then descended unevenly to 23,000 feet, below normal cruising levels, as it approached the densely populated island of Penang, one of the country's largest. There, officials believe, the plane turned from a southwest-bound course, climbed to a higher altitude and flew northwest over the Strait of Malacca toward the Indian Ocean.

Military radar last recorded the aircraft flying at an altitude of 29,500 feet about 200 miles northwest of Penang and headed toward India's Andaman Islands.

So if it was last seen from Butterworth radar at 29,500ft then it disappeared at 226nm from RMAF Butterworth... simple maths

auroraaus
Does anyone think in future that commercial planes must (as in a mandatory requireement) have separate operating GPS-devices (or that kind of thing) located in various parts of the plane should this kind of situation (or a crash), arise again? Thus, making it easier to find?

Or is that entirely improbable to achieve in the next decade?

Oil rig helicopters in the North Sea carry floating beacons which detach on impact with the sea.

I don't know if this has been posted before as this is a long thread and I don't have time to read through all of it, but I heard that the cockpit voice recorded only captures the communications in the cockpit for the last two hours of a flight. Is this correct? If so whats the logical reasoning behind this? Whats so important about the end of the flight? Are these devices not made for use during unexpected circumstances?

reply to post by sy.gunson


For those of us who failed to see the use of studying trigonometry in high school, what are you getting at?

Speaking of the Reddit thread, I finally read a news article that was linked there that I skipped over, thinking it wasn't much different from other not-really-updates.

MH370 flew as low as 1,500m to avoid detection, says paper

As the search for the missing flight MH370 enters its 10th day with few clues as to its whereabouts, the New Straits Times said today the Boeing 777-200ER dropped 5,000 feet (1,500m) to evade commercial radar detection.

In an exclusive story, the government-backed paper said investigators analysing MH370’s flight data revealed that the 200-tonne, fully laden twinjet descended 1,500m or even lower to evade commercial (secondary) radar coverage after it turned back from its flight path en route to Beijing.

**Quick edit: I quoted the above for the newspaper source it contains, not the low flying over Malaysia info we already know.

Investigators poring over MH370’s flight data had said the plane had flown low and used “terrain masking” as it flew over the Bay of Bengal and headed north towards land, the NST reported.

This means it went further west than the Andaman Islands. Period.

“Terrain masking” refers to an ability to position an aircraft so there is natural earth hiding it from the radio waves sent from the radar system. It is a technique mostly used in aerial combat where military pilots would fly at extremely low elevations upon normally hilly or mountainous terrain to “mask” their approach.

Using this method of masking, they could have evaded the military radars. Something people have been insisting couldn't have been done.

Flight MH370 flew for an estimated eight hours and the authorities believe it would have flew over two additional countries besides Malaysia, although it's not clear which ones.

The running theory of being well inland somewhere might be correct.

The NST quoting sources said the probe would now focus on regions with disused airports equipped with long runways capable of handling a plane like the Boeing 777.

I haven't heard any of this yet, so apologies if it's been posted already (I did skim a few pages earlier to catch up, I may have missed it)
I think we may have been tossed a big nugget here, and everyone slamming posters who've been leaning towards the plane being hijacked & landed might want to consider prepping for their plate o' crow.

Reports are plane flew at 5000ft for avoiding detection and that the investigation is tending towards the North corridor.

source

TERRAIN MASKING: It dropped to 5,000 feet after turning back from Kuala Lumpur-Beijing route on March 8

SEPANG: MAS Airlines flight MH370 dropped to an altitude of 5,000 feet, or possibly lower, to defeat commercial (secondary) radar coverage after it turned back from its Kuala Lumpur-Beijing route on March 8.

Investigators are poring over the Boeing 777-200ER's flight profile to determine if it had flown low and used "terrain masking" during most of the eight hours it was missing from the radar coverage of possibly at least three countries.

Top officials, who make up the technical team that had been holed up from morning till late at night here, are looking at the possibility that the jetliner, carrying 239 people, had taken advantage of the busy airways over the Bay of Bengal.

By sticking to commercial routes, the flight may not have raised the suspicion of those manning primary (military) radars of the nations it overflew. To them, MH370 would appear to be just another commercial aircraft on its way to its destination.

"The person who had control over the aircraft has a solid knowledge of avionics and navigation, and left a clean track. It passed low over Kelantan, that was true," said officials.

"It's possible that the aircraft had hugged the terrain in some areas, that are mountainous to avoid radar detection."

This technique is called terrain masking and is used by military pilots to fly to their targets stealthily, using the topography to mask their approach from prying microwaves. This type of flying is considered very dangerous, especially in low-light conditions and spatial disorientation, and airsickness could easily set in. The stresses and loads it puts on the airframe, especially an airliner of the 777's size, are tremendous.

"While the ongoing search is divided into two massive areas, the data that the investigating team is collating is leading us more towards the north," sources said.

From about the time the aircraft made the turnback at waypoint Igari near the Vietnamese airspace, right up to the point where it left military primary radar coverage, six routine automated signals from the aircraft (known as electronic handshakes or "pings") were registered on the Inmarsat satellite network.

The last confirmed handshake was at 8.11am on Saturday, which would indicate that the aircraft continued flying for nearly seven hours after contact was lost.

Sources also confirmed that the seventh handshake never came.

"The seventh signal was sent but there has been no feedback.

"There are two likely possibilities -- either the plane landed somewhere and the engine was shut down or it crashed."

sy.gunson
So nothing is changed... the range was 5 hours flying from north of Banda Acheh (Sumatra) presumably flying at 23,000ft.

sy.gunson
So if it was last seen from Butterworth radar at 29,500ft then it disappeared at 226nm from RMAF Butterworth... simple maths

It may seem simple yo you, but in one post you presume 23,000 feet for 5 hours and in the next post you seem to contradict that by posting an altitude of 29,500ft, so I'm not really following you. I'm not presuming it flew at any steady altitude since it was obviously changing, and I'm not sure why you're trying to make such presumptions either. As far as i know the altitude was all over the place after the transponder signal ended and that variation could have continued for a long time.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Please see above post re 5000ft for whoever is guessing at altitudes, the released altitude data has been minimal so far and the 45000 disputed as unlikely. The report of 5000ft shows that the altitude in fact varied during the total flying time.