Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: tsurfer2000hso your retort is about a completely different conflict that has essential been over since 2009. also I have to ask, are chechens fighting for Russians? don't chechens and Russians still have some bad feelings and ill will? knowing russia, Chechen history shouldn't chechnians be against Russians, so in essence would help kiev, unless of course they see some really bad stuff being done to innocent civilians.

here is something else you are bringing up about Russia and chech war, the war criminals were not caught in the act.

www.zerohedge.com... gher-jet-bombing-caught-tape

Kiev was quick to deny that it was using its airforce on its own people, claiming instead that the explosion quite clearly caught on tape was merely locals trying to unsuccessfully shoot at the fighter jet.

so kiev says it is not theirs. hmmm.

So for your viewing displeasure, because the reality of yet another fratricidal war is hardly enjoyable, and so readers can make up their own minds, here is the moment of the fighter jet bombing caught on tape, as well as the tragic consequences.

that is plane attack. ooohh look, another angle.



wouldn't be right to not show the aftermath.



now if you don't believe the school attack, I can find that video also. I would also like to point out that if citizens can capture this on their phone, then how well is the superpowers satellites picking this up? betcha they have the tail number, unit and all. now, don't you think it justice to show names and addresses of people willing to fire on their own people? im sorry for his family, but what do you think citizens will do with this information?

some more irony for you here. isn't it ironic that a country Russia was just at war with, is coming to help them fight against these forces? or maybe the truth is they are just trying to help the ukranian people. isn't that irony? same as it would have been if japan had joined forces with us against korea. sometimes things are that clear and simple.

a reply to: Xcathdra you idiots will try anything to justify this violence against innocent people. wtf is wrong with you? where is your devil altar located exactly?

so you think rpg? hahahaha!!!!
yea all those citizens carrying bags of groceries, holding hands etc... all had rpg's and explosives on them. not bags of groceries. *facepalm*
wonder why they all was staring at sky as jet approached, still looking up as rockets launched, then sound of explosions send them running and camera angle then sucks as if someone terrified for their life. wtf????

no one has ever claimed that Russia is the sweet, super innocent country. on the contrary they have done many evil deeds. but to not acknowledge what is truly going on here and to try to bring sides together(obviously too late). attacking innocents like this to keep a freaking Ponzi scheme alive, is very much on par with the evil the third reich was committing during ww2. anyone who can stand by and just let it happen or pretend to be blind or mentally impaired so as not to admit the truth as the evil is happening, is just as guilty as the ones perpetrating it.

originally posted by: cosmonova
today is the busiest day so far on all fronts, some heavy figths in Slavyansk, Kramatorsk region

rui borges ‏@homo_viator 1m
#BREAKING #Slavyansk area attack by #Ukraine airforce is underway. Via @ActualidadRT

Catherina ‏@Catherina_News 4m
#Slavyansk - Two #Ukraine helicopters hit- 1 helicopter downed, 1 left with engine on fire via @POS_troi

Amitashi ‏@amitashi01 5m
Good morning begins with blowing up some nazi APCs with RPGs. As Resistance did today! #Ukraine #Slavyansk

Slavyansk today

This doesnt make sense supposedly separatist have manpads and there just allowing two hinds to cruise over the city?

a reply to: dragonridr
could you please show proof of the militia and seperatists in the video? why is it that this is the only thread on ats that wild speculation seems to be okay?
they have been terrorizing the citizens.

I would also like to ask why this is not entered for the hoax bin yet? the title of thread is "Russia declares war on Ukraine". how is this a accurate title? where are the Russian troops? where are the Russian planes, tanks, apcs? anything?

Russia has never declared war on Ukraine. actually many posters(actually the same 2 pushing this thread)have asked repeatedly why Russia has not intervened to help the ukranian people yet. they are also the staunchest kiev supporters. how can this site claim to seek the truth when the lying title of this thread is allowed to remain? HELLO!!!!!

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: dragonridr
could you please show proof of the militia and seperatists in the video? why is it that this is the only thread on ats that wild speculation seems to be okay?
they have been terrorizing the citizens.

What wild speculations? Theres two hinds cruising over the city at least according to this video. And we have seen countless videos of anti aircraft weapons so how come these helicopters arent shot down? Doesnt make sense unless there isnt manpads there.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: dragonridr
could you please show proof of the militia and seperatists in the video? why is it that this is the only thread on ats that wild speculation seems to be okay?
they have been terrorizing the citizens.

What wild speculations? Theres two hinds cruising over the city at least according to this video. And we have seen countless videos of anti aircraft weapons so how come these helicopters arent shot down? Doesnt make sense unless there isnt manpads there.

Out of thousands of missions in Afghanistan, how many choppers were shot down by manpads?
Yep, doesn't happen every single time.
That's right, choppers actually have counter-measures! Imagine that! Flares 'n stuff...Somebody ACTUALLY thought of that when designing these things...
Now, are you playing the naivete game here, or are you serious?

a reply to: letscit

Then maybe you should stop hiding behind your monitor and head to Ukraine and fight. Also was your post directed at me? If so why did you not read / understand / comprehend my post? I say this because your post has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

You really need to stop making things up and actually use the info in the post for the basis of your argument.

Not to mention you need a history lesson - look up
Novye Aldi massacre

Also can you / anyone else explain why its ok for these groups to kill Ukrainians (which I have yet to see any pro Russian / anti American people).

War is a 2 way street.
The referendum was illegal.
The Ukraine government has every right to defend against armed groups trying to seize Ukraine territory.
Just as the Russian government argued in Chechnya.
If Russia can justify its "ethnic Russians being attacked / beat / stabbed / omgwtfbbqsauce" argument the Ukraine has every right to send in military units to protect Ukrainian citizens from pro Russian forces.

The resolution to end hostilities in Ukraine could occur right now by those armed groups fighting kiev to lay down their arms and surrender / head back to Russia / Chechnya and whoever else Russia dragged into it.

maybe you should spend more time counter arguments with facts that can refute the information and less time calling people idiots.

Putin in Crimea...
Putin in East / South Ukraine...
Russian forces stirring up dissent among the 2 regions in question.
Putin faced economic issues with his venture...
Putin stopped supporting the actions in East / South Ukraine.

The thought that comes to mind with Putin and the others -
"who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows?"

a reply to: Xcathdra proof of Russians attacking Ukraine please. proof or it didn't happen. capeche?

not some made up western lies that was retracted in a 2cm section on the last page of the paper the next day. how about some real actuall proof that has not been retracted!

standing down now and will await all the undeniable proof that you all have. will be quietly and patiently waiting.

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdra proof of Russians attacking Ukraine please. proof or it didn't happen. capeche?

not some made up western lies that was retracted in a 2cm section on the last page of the paper the next day. how about some real actuall proof that has not been retracted!

Read / understand my post since you are once again making things up while trying to apply your misinformation on me.

a reply to: Xcathdra if your there I will!!!!

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdra if your there I will!!!!

The US has stated, as has Europe, that we will not engage militarily in Ukraine. Since I live in the US I am unable to attend. If your from Russia / Russian ally check with them to go with you.

Tell me -
How can you argue your position about Ukraine and what Kiev is doing while refusing to note that Russia apparently does not agree with your claims. Putin recognized the new Ukraine government. If things are as bad as you claim then why has Russia not rolled across the border?

Maybe you should stop hating on people and actually look at the entire picture for this mess. Ive reread several of your posts and nowhere have I seen you take Russia to task for their actions.

Oversight on your part?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: letscit

Then maybe you should stop hiding behind your monitor and head to Ukraine and fight.

Not to mention you need a history lesson - look up
Novye Aldi massacre

Also can you / anyone else explain why its ok for these groups to kill Ukrainians (which I have yet to see any pro Russian / anti American people).

War is a 2 way street.
The referendum was illegal.
The Ukraine government has every right to defend against armed groups trying to seize Ukraine territory.
Just as the Russian government argued in Chechnya.
If Russia can justify its "ethnic Russians being attacked / beat / stabbed / omgwtfbbqsauce" argument the Ukraine has every right to send in military units to protect Ukrainian citizens from pro Russian forces.

The resolution to end hostilities in Ukraine could occur right now by those armed groups fighting kiev to lay down their arms and surrender / head back to Russia / Chechnya and whoever else Russia dragged into it.

maybe you should spend more time counter arguments with facts that can refute the information and less time calling people idiots.

Putin in Crimea...
Putin in East / South Ukraine...
Russian forces stirring up dissent among the 2 regions in question.
Putin faced economic issues with his venture...
Putin stopped supporting the actions in East / South Ukraine.

The thought that comes to mind with Putin and the others -
"who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows?"

Referendum isn't illegal, NOT after Kosovo! That opened a whole can of worms, setting the precedent that it did.
So that's a moot point.
And these aren't 'armed groups, trying to seize territory' as you so 'eloquently' put it, but 'freedom fighters' fighting an oppressive regime - just like the ones we're helping out in Syria. Or perhaps like the Albanians we helped in Kosovo. Surely, you don't want to be accused of using double standards, do you now?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW, I see you have Ukraine links as your signature, may I ask why?
Are you Ukrainian? Why is it that this particular conflict interests you so much?
You don't really have to answer, but it would help clarify things for me...

Peace

a reply to: letscitwhat did I make up? I have proof and links. you keep bringing up past. would you be so hard on Germany if they where in a armed conflict today? would you say terrible Germany doing what they always do, exterminating jews? people, weather and nations cant change with the wind?

a reply to: Xcathdradude, go about 300 pages back. hey that's what you do to people. I put everything but my address.

a reply to: letscit

I'm sorry Letscit but what you just said is racist, and unilateral, i actualy live in Europe, so you say germans will always want to kill jews?? so if i take that analogy then all US wants it's to take their crappy society and impose it on oil countries. See very bad analogy...

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: letscitwhy do you bring up the past constantly instead of staying in the here and now and what is going on on the ground right now!

Gee I don't know... Why did Putin talk about restarting the former Soviet Union? Why does Russia make the claim Crimea belongs to them while citing history as their base claim? Why has Russia restarted its bomber airspace probes / naval incursions - something done during the cold war. Why did Putin try to compare Ukraine to the former Yugoslavia. Russia recently annexed Crimea again citing history for the justification. Why did Putin harp on about the illegal collapse of the Soviet Union and the illegal actions of the former SSR's going their own way?

Since Putin seems to be trapped in the cold war years its only appropriate to point those things out. The past is the blueprint Russian is using in case you missed it.

However I will give your request a shot.
Russia recognized the new government in Kiev.
Russia can complain about Ukraine and its military actions all it wants... Hell Russia can introduce a UN resolution demanding a halt to Ukrainian military actions.

While they work out language for Ukraine they can also add and workout the language for Syria to halt its attacks on "its own people".

a reply to: IamTheManWithThePlan

Please learn about Kosovo and the false claim people make about the 2 situations. Hell even the UN members have stated they are not the same thing.

ETA - I don't have Ukraine links in my signature line. I DO have ATS threads in my signature line and the threads contain information that is relevant.

Is there any particular reason you and some others are so dead set about people debating this topic? From the outside looking in you guys are coming across as almost offended because we don't agree with Putin or his actions.

The cold war is over...
We are not required to accept Russia's actions in Ukraine.
We are not required to speak about Putin as if he were a King.
We have every right to take Putin to task for his actions.

So long as you and the others are here posting information you can count on the other side of the coin doing the same.

Demanding they stop while you continue to post is vintage USSR mentality.