Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdra
I will bet it is a way for them to get the people out of the way before they come on in. just logic dude, no proof. to not think this situation will not escalate is absurd at this point. sides have been taken. chinas military has issued warnings and threats with alliance to Russia. this is the stupidest thing to go down in my 44 years. and why? because of lies and conquest.

What threats have China made over Ukraine do you have a link?

originally posted by: douglas5
a reply to: Xcathdra

So Russia is not at war with Ukraine

Just like the U.S is not at war with Pakistan or Somalia or anywhere else that is getting droned

ok got it

Russia is at war with Ukraine since Russia invaded and annexed Crimea.

Pro Russians apparently have a different idea of what an invasion is yet for some reason they don't elaborate.

a reply to: dragonridr
maybe threat was too strong a word. not sure if you will like the source. highly doubt it. nut this is not going to be reported here. that's for sure.
voiceofrussia.com... 0/

I do believe they are sending a message though.

here is a neat pic and article. its short.
vineyardsaker.blogspot.ch... -image-is-worth.html

what was this all about

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdrasince you like quotes, I have a few from ben franklin for you. im sure you know who he is, if not google it.

1)This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins.

2)Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.

3)There never was a good war or a bad peace.

You forgot that there are no war crimes because all wars are crimes.

I find it interesting that you are posting democracy style quotes when Russia is anything but one.

a reply to: letscit

China has issued no threats with regards to Ukraine.
China and Russia are not invincible.
Simply demanding people take Russia and what it says at face value no longer works.

Lies and conquest eh?

Since NATO did not invade Ukraine where as Russia did please justify the double standard you just implied.

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: dragonridr
maybe threat was too strong a word. not sure if you will like the source. highly doubt it. nut this is not going to be reported here. that's for sure.
voiceofrussia.com... 0/

I do believe they are sending a message though.

404 not found for your link.

a reply to: Xcathdraits still up on sott and from sott you can access the stories. funny it wont work from here. screen capture is in order.

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: dragonridr
maybe threat was too strong a word. not sure if you will like the source. highly doubt it. nut this is not going to be reported here. that's for sure.
voiceofrussia.com... 0/

I do believe they are sending a message though.

Then why did China not support Russia in the UN over Crimea?

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: dragonridr
maybe threat was too strong a word. not sure if you will like the source. highly doubt it. nut this is not going to be reported here. that's for sure.
voiceofrussia.com... 0/

I do believe they are sending a message though.

here is a neat pic and article. its short.
vineyardsaker.blogspot.ch... -image-is-worth.html

what was this all about

Nothing at either link you posted but somehow im not surprised no threats have been issued if anything China is trying to stay out of it. Their goal is to take advantage of the situation by getting Russia to agree to deals they would not have accepted before Ukraine and sanctions.

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdraits still up on sott and from sott you can access the stories. funny it wont work from here. screen capture is in order.

Fair enough.. When you find the article and post the image let me know.. Ill come back and read it.


ETA - Putin’s Shift on Ukraine Result of His Visit to Beijing, Kazan Editor Says

Staunton, May 24 – Vladimir Putin began pulling Russian forces back from the Ukrainian border and distancing himself from the secessionists in east Ukraine after his visit to Beijing convinced him that China, however useful tactically, is a long-term threat to Russia and that Moscow needs the West as a counterbalance to Chinese power, according to Ra# Akhmetov.



In the lead article in the current issue of Zvezda Povolzhya, the Kazan editor argues that Putin has begun to recognize that Russia is not quite as much a Eurasian country as he has suggested and that “an alliance with China” will lead to “the Sinification” of Russia and “the slow liquidation of Russian civilization” (no. 18 (698), May 22-28, 2014, p. 1).

Indeed, Akhmetov suggests, given the gas price concessions he had to make to China and the expansion of the Chinese presence in Russia he had to agree to, Putin may now wish he had purchased Crimea from Ukraine rather than seized it because in that event he would not have alienated Europe and the United States nearly as much.

Putin’s plan to “re-orient” the Russian economy away from Europe toward China was “condemned to failure from the outset,” the Kazan editor says, because it quickly became obvious during the Kremlin leader’s visit to the Chinese capital that “Russia is not Eurasia, but rather a completely European country.”

China is, Ahmetov says Putin became aware during his visit, “too distinctive and alien for the Russian world.” If Russians are now upset by the arrival of ten million gastarbeiters from Central Asia, many of whom were already adapted to Russia beforehand, “what will happen when ten million Chinese” or even more – “arrive in the course of the next few decades?”

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: letscit
a reply to: Xcathdraits still up on sott and from sott you can access the stories. funny it wont work from here. screen capture is in order.

Fair enough.. When you find the article and post the image let me know.. Ill come back and read it.


ETA - Putin’s Shift on Ukraine Result of His Visit to Beijing, Kazan Editor Says

Staunton, May 24 – Vladimir Putin began pulling Russian forces back from the Ukrainian border and distancing himself from the secessionists in east Ukraine after his visit to Beijing convinced him that China, however useful tactically, is a long-term threat to Russia and that Moscow needs the West as a counterbalance to Chinese power, according to Ra# Akhmetov.



In the lead article in the current issue of Zvezda Povolzhya, the Kazan editor argues that Putin has begun to recognize that Russia is not quite as much a Eurasian country as he has suggested and that “an alliance with China” will lead to “the Sinification” of Russia and “the slow liquidation of Russian civilization” (no. 18 (698), May 22-28, 2014, p. 1).

Indeed, Akhmetov suggests, given the gas price concessions he had to make to China and the expansion of the Chinese presence in Russia he had to agree to, Putin may now wish he had purchased Crimea from Ukraine rather than seized it because in that event he would not have alienated Europe and the United States nearly as much.

Putin’s plan to “re-orient” the Russian economy away from Europe toward China was “condemned to failure from the outset,” the Kazan editor says, because it quickly became obvious during the Kremlin leader’s visit to the Chinese capital that “Russia is not Eurasia, but rather a completely European country.”

China is, Ahmetov says Putin became aware during his visit, “too distinctive and alien for the Russian world.” If Russians are now upset by the arrival of ten million gastarbeiters from Central Asia, many of whom were already adapted to Russia beforehand, “what will happen when ten million Chinese” or even more – “arrive in the course of the next few decades?”

Interesting link i knew the Chinese dont like Russians when i spent a year there. Because of my last name was asked often and people were relieved when i said no.

a reply to: dragonridr

Russia and China and the US will most likely never become key allies with each other, unless we are attacked from space aliens.

The ideology and goals run counter to all 3.

what we are seeing between Russia and China could be described as what occurred between China and the US during the cold war.

Russia and China had a falling out and China aligned itself more with the US as a counterbalance. These alliances / deals / etc between Russia and China and the US are short term and usually only address current events. China wants to militarize space... The US doesn't want anyone to militarize space but them. Russia wants a moon base and to send people to Mars on their own.

All politics are local.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: dragonridr

Russia and China and the US will most likely never become key allies with each other, unless we are attacked from space aliens.

The ideology and goals run counter to all 3.

what we are seeing between Russia and China could be described as what occurred between China and the US during the cold war.

Russia and China had a falling out and China aligned itself more with the US as a counterbalance. These alliances / deals / etc between Russia and China and the US are short term and usually only address current events. China wants to militarize space... The US doesn't want anyone to militarize space but them. Russia wants a moon base and to send people to Mars on their own.

All politics are local.

Shame to i was hoping the Russians would set up a moon base to get us back there. Wont happen now though frankly they needed US tech to pull it off and well we know thats not going to happen for a while. So this will set it back by a decade or more. Maybe India will pull it off there buying space tech like mad.

Heres an interesting read by a Kremlin adviser. He explains Putins plan for taking over Ukraine and or New Russia as Putin called it.

novorossia.su...

Take notice of phase 4 thats being done now. Crank up the violence with assistance of Russian nationals. This explains the high tech weapons and the Chechens flooding across the border.

www.zerohedge.com...

Moments ago the (somewhat) impartial OSCE laid any debate on the topic of where the rockets came from to rest. From Bloomberg:

OSCE: ROCKETS FROM PLANE HIT LUHANSK ADMINISTRATION YESTERDAY
OSCE SAYS NUMBER OF CASUALTIES FROM LUHANSK ROCKETS IS UNCLEAR
OSCE SAYS LUHANSK ASSESSMENT BASED ON `LIMITED OBSERVATION'
OSCE COMMENTS IN WEBSITE STATEMENT ON LUHANSK

originally posted by: khimbar
www.zerohedge.com...

Moments ago the (somewhat) impartial OSCE laid any debate on the topic of where the rockets came from to rest. From Bloomberg:

OSCE: ROCKETS FROM PLANE HIT LUHANSK ADMINISTRATION YESTERDAY
OSCE SAYS NUMBER OF CASUALTIES FROM LUHANSK ROCKETS IS UNCLEAR
OSCE SAYS LUHANSK ASSESSMENT BASED ON `LIMITED OBSERVATION'
OSCE COMMENTS IN WEBSITE STATEMENT ON LUHANSK

OSCE collects reports this doesnt mean they were there to witness it. It means that it was reported to them that it occurred based off eye witness testimonies.It also makes no sense for the pilot to attack the park since that would have been the target. none of this makes sense at all really and unfortunately until Ukraine releases the footage from the plane it probably wouldnt make sense. Im still really doubting that the rockets fired hit that park the damage done isnt from air to surface missiles damage to small. Should have torn up the entire building and makes little sense since the pilot has alot of other options as well.

a reply to: IamTheManWithThePlan

WHat international law was broken in Kosovo? the UN sanctioned it. It was a legally carried out action and i think even the russians were on board then too. fox newswasnt even on the radar during kosovo was it?

Anyway how does this compare to ukraine?

Things are going to start heating up in Crimea just as i thougt.

news.vice.com...

And it seems that’s exactly what happened. In a press release issued on Friday, the FSB announced that it had thwarted a terrorist attack that targeted the “Eternal Flame memorial and the V. I. Lenin monument in the city of Simferopol early on May 9, as well as an arson attack against the office of the Russian Community of Crimea and the representative office of the United Russia party” — Russian President Vladimir Putin’s political party.

The FSB said that it found homemade bombs and nationalist literature at the suspects’ homes.

Among the other activists arrested with Afanasiev was Oleh Sentsov, an award-winning film director who supported the protests that toppled Ukraine’s former president Viktor Yanukovych and opposed Crimea’s annexation to Russia.

In a statement issued from Berlin, the European Film Academy called for Sentsov’s immediate release.

According to the FSB, Afanasiev, Sentsov, and the two other activists, Oleksy Chyrny and Oleksandr Kolchenko, are terrorists.

“The suspects have confessed to being part of Right Sector and to organizing terrorist acts on the territory of Crimea with the aim of destabilizing the social and political situation on the peninsula,” the Russian security service claimed in its statement. Right Sector, the Ukrainian nationalist group, has denied that the four were members.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Andrii Deshchytsia told VICE News that his ministry had formally requested that Russia allow Ukrainian consular officials to meet the suspects in Moscow, where they are being held.

“We are still waiting for their reply,” Deshchytsia said. “So far we have not been shown any real evidence that would confirm the charges that they are being accused of.”

edit on 6/3/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

Video with alot of footage i hadnt seen and interviews with people in lugansk.

a reply to: letscit

here is something else you are bringing up about Russia and chech war, the war criminals were not caught in the act.

I didn't say anything about the Chechan/Russian war, but i did say something about the school being taken over by Chechan terrorists in which they used hostages as human shields, so what does war criminals have to do with what I posted?

betcha they have the tail number, unit and all. now, don't you think it justice to show names and addresses of people willing to fire on their own people?

Why would they as military jets don't have tail numbers?

And did Putin supply the names of those who killed those children in Beslan in 2006, because Russian military had a hand in the death of those children?

some more irony for you here. isn't it ironic that a country Russia was just at war with, is coming to help them fight against these forces? or maybe the truth is they are just trying to help the ukranian people.

Ironic no, because money talks and I will bet that Putin spoke the right words in getting there help.

Interesting screen shot I have here...



It comes from this video...




Do you know who the man talking to Putin is?

Ramzan Kadyrov

So now do you think the Chechens are there to help Ukraine, because if you say yes then your wrong. Now if you say they are there to help Putin give yourself a pat on the back because you would be right.