Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

I'm not sure taking heavy armour into a city and driving tanks through barriers is the best way of uniting the country at the moment. There seems to be an element of collective punishment about it. Not everyone there is a violent separatist, many are just ethnically Russian out in the streets, yet they are all being treated as terrorists. The Ukrainian government need to tone down their aggression on what are in fact, on the whole peaceful Ukrainian citizens.

a reply to: dragonridr

Wiki Armed Forces of Ukraine

Ukraine has plentiful amounts of highly enriched uranium, which the United States wanted to buy from the Kharkiv Institute of Physics and Technology. Ukraine also has two uranium mining and processing factories, a heavy water plant and technology for determining the isotopic composition of fissionable materials. Ukraine has deposits of uranium that are among the world’s richest. In May 1992, Ukraine signed the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START I) in which the country agreed to give up all nuclear weapons and to join the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty as a non-nuclear weapon state. Ukraine ratified the treaty in 1994, and as of January 1, 1996, no military nuclear equipment or materials remain on Ukrainian territory.

a reply to: woodwardjnr
The deployment of heavy equipment most likely geared towards the referendum on Sunday.

Its also a possibility they are doing this on the off chance Russia crosses the border after the referendum.

a reply to: Xcathdra
From what I saw last night on the news, it seemed Ukraine were using over the top aggression on their own citizens. I'm sure there are more effective ways of dealing with the situation that won't leave such a lasting bitter taste for those involved. Storming tanks through the streets of a city is hardly a diplomatic way to engage your problems.

Innocent civilians should not be collectively punished for the actions of a small minority. In my opinion the Ukrainian administration is handling this all very badly,building up a mass of resentment for the future.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

I completely agree.

However when an armed insurrection kicks off, and Russia is supplying top of the line equipment, you have to take that into account to counter it effectively. Also this referendum will not have Russian soldiers locking everyone down. You have the separatists and that is pretty much it.

In this instance I think Ukraine was right to deploy that equipment (using it is a whole different story and should be a last last last resort). When the referendum ballots are filled out and disbursed to "voters" who just turn them back in the "new government" of those areas are going to announce independence and they are going to ask Russia to move on in. After what occurred in Crimea I don't think Ukraine is going to go down that road a second time.

The deployment might be for stopping the referendum or locking everything down once its done.

Hopefully there will be no violence, however im not holding my breath.

These wait and see games are just weird as hell in their neck of the woods over there..

Star for you Woodward

Anyone would think the Ukraine government are being told to be heavy handed and use the army


If they used the police with non lethal weapons like the west does they could defuse this situation

Sending the army in just pouring more petrol on the embers and then fanning the flames

a reply to: Whereismypassword

In case you did not notice you do not use less lethal when the person you are facing is armed with an assault rifle.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Innocent civilians should not be collectively punished for the actions of a small minority.

I find it funny how separatists can be the majority or a tiny minority, depending on the propaganda point that is trying to be made. Now only a tiny minority are separatists because the police are cracking down. Tomorrow, they will be an overwhelming majority because they favor a referendum.

Going by some of the photos from the burnt building all pregnant Russian leaning women should be given a fire arm and training so right wing scum don't strangle and kill them leaving their bodies propped up by the table they died on

a reply to: DJW001
Regarding propaganda I was watching it on ITV and Channel 4 in the UK, both are pretty fair at reporting events on the ground. I was just making my comments based on watching their reports and video footage. I find twitter reports are no better than hear say

You do know that not all ethnic Russians in Ukraine are violent separatists. The vast majority are law abiding citizens

President Oleksander Turchinov- Kiev tells east Ukraine rebels vote for self-rule would be catastrophe

uk.mobile.reuters.com...

a reply to: Whereismypassword

www.facebook.com...

"Odesa. This will not be shown on Russian TV channels. Because Ukrainians are not people, they are beasts, sadists, and Banderites. That is what you are supposed to think."

[Ukrainian residents in Odesa carry scaffold and help pro-Russian extremists trapped by flames on upper floor of burning House of Trade Unions building get out alive.

www.facebook.com...

a reply to: woodwardjnr

You do know that not all ethnic Russians in Ukraine are violent separatists. The vast majority are law abiding citizens

My point being that they will be presented as a majority or a minority by the same sources, depending on the "message" they are trying to convey.

Will people just stick to updates, there is plenty of other Ukraine threads to argue on, trust me I was involved in them, but this an update thread.

This map shows how Russia’s military relies on Ukraine
BY ADAM TAYLOR AND GENE THORP
May 9 at 9:53 am
May 9, or Victory Day, is a hugely important day for Russia's military. It marks the anniversary of the Soviet announcement in May 1945 that Nazi Germany had surrendered, and it is now celebrated with an enormous military parade in Moscow. The parade is an impressive show of strength: About 11,000 soldiers and more than 150 military vehicles gathered in Red Square on Friday.
In light of recent events, however, it's worth remembering how much that military relies on outside factors -- for example, a large number of factories and other resources in Ukraine's troubled southern and eastern regions.
Kateryna Choursina and James M. Gomez of Bloomberg Businessweek recently pointed out that more than 50 factories in Ukraine's southern and eastern regions provide significant amounts of important hardware for Russia's military, and that the Russian government's $15 billion agreement with former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych (the agreement that eventually lead to his ousting) aimed to further intertwine the two country's defense industries.

washington post

2nd post removed

a reply to: sosobad

Retweeted by Ukrainian Updates
Dmitry Rogozin ‏@DRogozin · 15m
Ukrainian interceptors turned around our plane www.actualitati.md...

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 8m
School for Patriots: #Kyiv, May 11. Event to unite Ukrainian leaders & discuss new vision of #Ukraine www.facebook.com... … | EMPR Promo

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 12m
Border in #Luhansk oblast and on #Transnistrian sector is guarded intensely www.facebook.com... … | EMPR News #Ukraine

Picture og Ballot

Ruptly ‏@Ruptly · 16m
“@Nicolaj_Gericke: Ballot paper for tomorrow, in Russian and Ukrainian pic.twitter.com/xlbwcGoH6c”

Not good

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 20m
Illegal secession voting already started today at the "polling station" in school #32 in #Donetsk. @novostidnua |EMPR pic.twitter.com/qJm6asL0GL

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 20m
Amid anti-terrorist operation on May 9, #Sloviansk residents hand our leaflets calling for unity wp.me... | EMPR News #Ukraine

English EuroMaidan ‏@EuroMaidanEN · 22m
#Germany and #France have stated they will apply more and broader sanctions, if #Putin continue to interfere with... fb.me...

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
I'm not sure taking heavy armour into a city and driving tanks through barriers is the best way of uniting the country at the moment. There seems to be an element of collective punishment about it. Not everyone there is a violent separatist, many are just ethnically Russian out in the streets, yet they are all being treated as terrorists. The Ukrainian government need to tone down their aggression on what are in fact, on the whole peaceful Ukrainian citizens.

'Ethnic Russian' is a falsehood.

An overwhelming majority of Ukrainians in the east and west have Russo-slavic ancestry and speak Russian.

A vocal minority in the east have taken to heart the relentless scare propaganda by Russian state media about fascists hordes and a Cold War style imperialist aggression by the west. These are the reactionaries and if you have not noticed by their interviews they tend to be the least informed, most belligerent types -- ones who in the same breath claim that they are 'peaceful protestors', and then go storm their own local prosecutor's office, throwing rocks at police officers.

news.vice.com...

My contacts in the east claim that most Ukrainians are in fact not supporting these separatist actions. They are staying clear of the conflict and hopping against all odds that Russia's agitation and Kyiv's countermeasures don't start a bloody civil war.

New video -- purports to show captured separatists with weapons and forged referendum ballots.