Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Echtelion

 

But all what happened is that Russia has sent troops to Crimea, and they aren't doing anything aside from guarding some areas.

My question is what are they trying to guard against, because as far as we know there wasn't anything happening in Crimea that would warrant such a troop movement.

And what areas are Russian other than the naval base which I am sure has adequate security. Now if things were getting real sketchy in Crimea then yes they do have the right to protect their interests and that being only the naval base.

A just question.

- The Crimean parliament has declared its autonomy from Kiev, shortly after the putsch on the 22. That happened BEFORE the deployment of Russian troops.

- Russia has had legal access to Crimean and its ports, and the agreement for it is still into effect, I think, for another 10-15 years.

The faction that took over Kiev Parliament does not agree with this, of course. They'll be sending troops to take back Crimea and keep Russia away.

Just what they are now doing...

Vitali Klitschko, the former heavyweight boxing champion and head of the opposition UDAR party who is now running for president, called for a general mobilization in response to the Russian move.

In a statement posted on his party’s Web site, he also called on the Verkhovna Rada, or Ukrainian parliament, to renounce the agreement permitting the Russian navy to maintain its base in Sevastopol.

The militant Ukrainian nationalist group Pravy Sektor, which led much of the fighting against riot police on the fringes of the Maidan, announced it would fully “mobilize” against the threat from Moscow.

Hence why Russia made the prompt and logical action to secure the area from being raided by Ukrainian army and/or Pravy Sektor paramilitaries.

khimbar

TritonTaranis


House?

You mean back garden

As I said before I I kick a ball over next door I generally knock before jumping over their fence and having a look in there shed and start claiming items as mine

If you'd rented and paid for the use of the back garden for the next few decades you wouldn't have to knock. You could walk straight in.

What of the land lord said he wanted you out his garden while he done some maintenance and you squared up to him and made threats?

Acceptable behaviour ?

I think you'd lose you tenancy

So if you new you would be kicked out your accommodation... What next? Burn the place down or make threats and squat ?

Because that's exactly what's going on

Any more updates on the situation? Is it escalating, dying down? Does anyone one know what is going on? It's evident that the Ukraine doesn't want a fight, so it's just a matter of what will be surrendered and what it is that Russia wants.

TritonTaranis

khimbar

TritonTaranis


House?

You mean back garden

As I said before I I kick a ball over next door I generally knock before jumping over their fence and having a look in there shed and start claiming items as mine

If you'd rented and paid for the use of the back garden for the next few decades you wouldn't have to knock. You could walk straight in.

What of the land lord said he wanted you out his garden while he done some maintenance and you squared up to him and made threats?

Acceptable behaviour ?

I think you'd lose you tenancy

So if you new you would be kicked out your accommodation... What next? Burn the place down or make threats and squat ?

Because that's exactly what's going on

Then I'd say 'No, I've paid for this and I'm using it'. And the law would support me.

ETA in fact to continue your analogy, the landlord has been thrown out of his house, someone has moved in through force and they have told me to get out.

Not the landlord I dealt with.

So if Berezovsky abdicated as commander of the Ukrainian Navy then swears allegiance to Crimea is that an act of treason'?

I live in a rented house.. to be fair I have to
abide by the rules of the agreement of which i signed.

I have a clearer head that i did yesterday.. for now I am willing to
give the benefit of the doubt to Russia.

If they come out of Crimea though.. then maybe they are after Ukraine as a buffer state
If they win Eastern Ukraine by voting then .. that's none of our business as long
as it's free and fair elections.

At the End of the day Ukraine can't force Eastern half of Ukraine to stay loyal to Kiev.
If they want to align with Russia.. their perfectly entitled to do so.

Echtelion

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Echtelion

 

But all what happened is that Russia has sent troops to Crimea, and they aren't doing anything aside from guarding some areas.

My question is what are they trying to guard against, because as far as we know there wasn't anything happening in Crimea that would warrant such a troop movement.

And what areas are Russian other than the naval base which I am sure has adequate security. Now if things were getting real sketchy in Crimea then yes they do have the right to protect their interests and that being only the naval base.

A just question.

- The Crimean parliament has declared its autonomy from Kiev, shortly after the putsch on the 22. That happened BEFORE the deployment of Russian troops.

- Russia has had legal access to Crimean and its ports, and the agreement for it is still into effect, I think, for another 10-15 years.

The faction that took over Kiev Parliament does not agree with this, of course. They'll be sending troops to take back Crimea and keep Russia away.

Hence why Russia made the prompt and logical action to secure the area from being raided by Ukrainian army and/or Pravy Sektor paramilitaries.

Yeah when you have over 100,000 troops stationed in Crimea it's easy to pull the wool and get them joining in... It been widely reported that Russian troops left the naval bases to protest

1827 GMT: Tough words from Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk (translated by The Interpreter):
Poland’s PM Donald Tusk called for “strong pressure” on Russia. The world shall not leave its eyes of the crisis in Ukraine. “This conflict all signs of the type of conflict that can escalate into a war…. a war which would effect all countries of the world.”

A war that would effect “all countries”? A lot of people are wondering if this is hyperbole, or a sage warning.

www.interpretermag.com...

www.pravda.com.ua...

10 kilometers from the Ukrainian-Russian border in Chernihiv was seen military movement.
The chairman of the Chernihiv Regional Council Nikolai Zverev at the extraordinary session of the Regional Council on Sunday, writes UNIAN .

edit to say this is Ukrainian army moving

Miami is a Spanish majority in the US

Malaga is an English majority in Spain

If the country's had an uprising and the county was destabilised that does not give those ethnics the right to claim that land for the motherland they're foreign nationals and ex pats and base/stationed troops

And it certainly doesn't give Russia the right to go seize that land and influence further divisions and add more heads to the protests and illegally without permission invading Sovereign territory

This is no different to the nazis trying to unite fellow Germany speaking countries into the empire

deviant300
So if Berezovsky abdicated as commander of the Ukrainian Navy then swears allegiance to Crimea is that an act of treason'?

Assuming that he is Jewish, that'd be a treason to his people to still be serving a Kiev taken over by an fascist antisemite faction.

I'm sure you'll still ignore this, but Crimea has declared its autonomy from Kiev before that happened. So the admiral is being patriotic.

rigel4
I live in a rented house.. to be fair I have to
abide by the rules of the agreement of which i signed.

I have a clearer head that i did yesterday.. for now I am willing to
give the benefit of the doubt to Russia.

If they come out of Crimea though.. then maybe they are after Ukraine as a buffer state
If they win Eastern Ukraine by voting then .. that's none of our business as long
as it's free and fair elections.

At the End of the day Ukraine can't force Eastern half of Ukraine to stay loyal to Kiev.
If they want to align with Russia.. their perfectly entitled to do so.

edit on 2-3-2014 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)

And that's the crux of the issue... the very same people who did the putsch on the 22 are now willing to force the ENTIRE of Ukraine to stay as it is. Those people are only after Power, and there's good reason to believe they are related to Bandar Bush's War on Russia.

At best, this civil war will probably result in a partitioning of Ukraine. At worst, planet Earth will be partitioned in a few pieces, by nuclear warheads.

...but our loyal and proud Britons don't seem to care about this other, "separate" issue, no?

Echtelion

deviant300
So if Berezovsky abdicated as commander of the Ukrainian Navy then swears allegiance to Crimea is that an act of treason'?

Assuming that he is Jewish, that'd be a treason to his people to still be serving a Kiev taken over by an fascist antisemite faction.

I'm sure you'll still ignore this, but Crimea has declared its autonomy from Kiev before that happened. So the admiral is being patriotic.

I reckon we could get a lot of people declare autonomy when an heavily armed army takes over the building you're working in lol

reply to post by TritonTaranis


yeah but this timeline is nowhere like this the autonomy was called before the move of any army
images.scribblelive.com...
the 27 they called for indepandence and the first day of march troop come in

TritonTaranis

Echtelion

deviant300
So if Berezovsky abdicated as commander of the Ukrainian Navy then swears allegiance to Crimea is that an act of treason'?

Assuming that he is Jewish, that'd be a treason to his people to still be serving a Kiev taken over by an fascist antisemite faction.

I'm sure you'll still ignore this, but Crimea has declared its autonomy from Kiev before that happened. So the admiral is being patriotic.

I reckon we could get a lot of people declare autonomy when an heavily armed army takes over the building you're working in lol

There's little way to know if this declaration was made democratically or not. Even if not, it was a "barbarian Vs barbarian" kinda response to a putsch. I mean there's no nice politics to use with people who rip a treaty apart and make putsch of a democratically-elected regime, the morning after they've signed that treaty themselves.

No matter how Yanukovitch was a crook and a despot, if you wanna talk "democracy" you have no choice but to talk Rule of Law, or else constitutions, treaties, charters are just some "damn piece of paper" (to quote a famous US neocon).

Your reaction, as that of some others here, appear dishonest or misinformed.

What will probably happen within the next day is the following:
1. Russia block all access to Crimea from Ukraine
2. An emergency meeting will be held, Crimea will be handed over to the Russians and they will get sanctioned
3. Within east Ukraine you will see more and more Agent Provocateur from both sides that try to gain control over the eastern Ukraine
4. Meanwhile the Ukrain and Tartar minority on Crimea will protest
5. We will hear sabble rattling from both sides in the meantime, without any further action
6. The people in eastern Ukraine will become more and more violent and pro Russian that will leas to the same situation we have now for Crimea, but within the eastern Ukraine
7. An emergency voting will be held if the people want to belong to Russia or Ukraine
8. Nobody will dare to go into an open conflict

In the eastern Ukraine and Crimea you will get a situation similar to Georgia and in the western part you will get the situation like in Egypt.
All in all the right wing politics now in charge have done everything to ruin the life for the people allover the Ukraine territory.
If people really consider the interim government good, they have not informed theirselves about the people like Dimitri Jarosch. The people that peacefully protested on maidan dont want them either.

1902 GMT: The United states government is now reporting that Russian troops have flooded Crimea today, reinforcing Russian positions there:
The U.S. has tracked “thousands more” Russian troops flowing into Crimea on Sunday to reinforce Russian positions there, a senior U.S. official said.

The official also said there has been no violence involving the Russian troops, and no evidence of shots fired. Few other details of the troop movements were available. Russia has thousands of members of its armed forces already stationed in Crimea.

www.interpretermag.com...

Russian President Vladimir Putin tells German Chancellor Angela Merkel, measures taken by Russia have been completely appropriate given situation in Ukraine.
[Reuters]

Dolby_X
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

yeah but this timeline is nowhere like this the autonomy was called before the move of any army
images.scribblelive.com...
the 27 they called for indepandence and the first day of march troop come in

edit on 2-3-2014 by Dolby_X because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-3-2014 by Dolby_X because: (no reason given)

Thanks for that graph, DolbyX... makes it much clearer, especially for those people who just read images

For those who read text, more details:

The Crimean parliament on Thursday voted in favor of holding a referendum on whether to expand its autonomy and passed a no-confidence motion dismissing the region's government.

The referendum — set for May 25, the same day as Ukraine's presidential election — was supported by 61 out of the 64 deputies who attended Thursday's emergency session, the parliament's press office told RIA Novosti.