Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

la2
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

This could get very interesting, how much of Ukraine would welcome Russian troops, is this simply a case of better the devil you know?

Well firstly it's illegal, Russia must leave Ukraine to sort out its own internal affairs, they should have done the same in Syria

It's bulling tactics, it's a desperate last gasp by an increasing boxed in Russia, the allies. Know the Saudis Qatar and other majority ME states will push Russia into a financial black hole trying to keep there puppet Assad in power, and they know or knew Ukraine would favour closer ties with the west... Hench why Russia has acted like Adolf hitler and gone land grabbing... This changes the game

NATO will act, and Russia will either run or be run over... No matter which way you look at it, Russia will be overwhelmed by a full strength NATO, and for those that think it'll be like a Iraq or afghan lol, we're talking conventional warfare, gloves off

NATO won't stand for Russia bulling and land grabbing on its Cold War boarders

reply to post by stirling


nope i think the net is still working all the news agency based in Ukrain are still up and some internet monitor dont show a blackout from there to

akamai monitor

on this one we see a slow down of the net but it may be cause by the overload of the network right now
internet traffic report

andy1972

Dolby_X
Just to put another source citing the defect

Ukraine navy chief says switches allegiance to Crimea pro-Russia authorities.
[AFP]

edit on 2-3-2014 by Dolby_X because: (no reason given)

Oopsss..

This is what you'd call a propaganda coup. The guy read the oath so fast i thought his head was going to explode.

Maybe this will have or already has has a snowball effect...

Maybe thats why the Russians have been very carefull in not engaging the Ukrainians in battle, just mexican stand off's.

They been told to hold until the army and navy decide what they want to do, and now they've seen the rest of Europe is just gonna sit and shout from the sidelines, maybe it's time to fall back in line.
America's left the Ukraine like they left the Syrian rebels...with nothing but promises.

edit on AM7Sun20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

If it's needed translate:
- "So, guys ready? Today, the second in March 2014, the authority vested in me by the Supreme Council of Crimea, I issued an order. Reads the text of the order.
order:
1. All military naval forces of Ukraine serving in the city of Sevastopol considered uninsurable execution writs and other self-proclaimed authorities and officials of Ukraine. "...
I suppose the meaning is clear. If you need - fully translated later.

andy1972
All this has been planned meticulosly. Putin is'nt like Hague or Obama, a coulpe of desk jockeys.
The man was KGB for 16 years. He knows how the world of politics in the east really works.
Forbes has him as the worlds most powerful man..

He doesn't need a team of 500 pen pushers bought by industry behind him teling him which way to turn.

This guy is a professional, a mover and shaker.

We should be wary, very wary.

Ive been saying similar for a long time in threads concerning Russia and Putin. The whole point that Putin is not some amateur seems a little beyond a lot of people here.

The common sentiment seems that weaponry and, oddly, how much money a nation spends on its military (as if that is a causative for absolute strength) determines wholly the final outcome of any battle.

Basically, "we [think we] have bigger guns. We are automatically destined to win no matter what". But its a rather absurd sentiment when it comes down to it. Its like saying the guy in a deathmatch whose wielding the BFG automatically wins the game.

But what if the wielder of the BFG is an inept loud mouth noob, and the other player while only perhaps having a pistol at his/her disposal, is a hardcore, lifelong FPS gamer?

But thats not even really an accurate analogy, because Russia is far more equipped than with just a pistol. If the US/NATO has the BFG, Russia, at a minimum, has weapon #9, right next to what The West has. AND they have a strong player wielding that weapon... while we, The West... do not.

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Oh please... Chances are, this thing will blow over. Russia is far too interested in continued economic growth, too wary of it's own domestic insecurity, both in the south, and with Vladimir Putins legitimacy as president - to just recklessly pursue war with the Ukraine.

If Russia is smart, they'll devise another method - or, hopefully, count their losses and give up on their expansionist ambitions with former soviet states.

ken10
reply to post by andy1972

 

All this has been planned meticulosly

I don't know how you come to that conclusion, Since it was the likes of McCain stirring things up back in DEC with his visit there.

www.theguardian.com...

The US's plan to stick in a proxy governemnt in the Ukraine after they accepted Russias bailout and not the west's, failed badly.
Yes there was a change of government, and we still don't know who is the government, but the US / EU wasn't expecting Putin to hijack the plan and mobilise troops and annex the Crimea causing an internacioanl incident.

Putin knew what was going down, and has made all the right moves, and without firing a shot.
He's well aware of the treaty the US and the UK has to defend Ukraine, so thats why he's playing it cool for now, no force, no blood.

He knows that the US and the UK won't go face to face with him.

He's rolled the dice..and it's payed off. He's stopped the west taking over Ukraine and taking the blacksea ports.

reply to post by alldaylong


Agreed! It wasn't until 1939 when Germany and the USSR invaded Poland that Britain and France declared war on Germany. Prior to this it was a policy of appeasement. I don't see the US getting overly involved (other than sanctions and harsh words) over Putin's incursion into Ukraine.

The US population, in my opinion, is in a state of war weariness and does not, necessarily, want to get involved in the internal politics/wars of other countries. I mean, we watched civilians getting murdered in Syria and said no to the POTUS' want to intervene! Unless this goes across the borders, there will be no response from NATO or the US.

Putin, in my opinion, sees the POTUS in a weakened position and understands he can do little more but criticize the actions of Russia. With both China and Russia sitting on the UN Security Council and both allies of the former President of Ukraine...I don't see much the UN can do to stop this. The UN has always been somewhat impotent anyway...

Acting Minister of Defense of Ukraine Igor Tenyukh decided to remove from duty, Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky.
"Because of the inability to manage the troops in extreme conditions, the decision of the Acting Minister of Defence of Ukraine, Rear Admiral DV Berezovsky suspended from duty commander of the Naval Forces of Ukraine", - reported in the Ministry of Defence.

For legal assessments of Berezovsky relevant materials submitted to prosecutors.

"Acting Commander of the Naval Forces of Ukraine appointed Rear Admiral Sergei Haiduk" - reported in the department.

24tv.ua...

TritonTaranis

la2
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

This could get very interesting, how much of Ukraine would welcome Russian troops, is this simply a case of better the devil you know?

Well firstly it's illegal, Russia must leave Ukraine to sort out its own internal affairs, they should have done the same in Syria

It's bulling tactics, it's a desperate last gasp by an increasing boxed in Russia, the allies. Know the Saudis Qatar and other majority ME states will push Russia into a financial black hole trying to keep there puppet Assad in power, and they know or knew Ukraine would favour closer ties with the west... Hench why Russia has acted like Adolf hitler and gone land grabbing... This changes the game

Again... no. Russia's troops presence in Crimea is LEGAL. As per agreements signed and in effect between Ukraine and Russia for more than two decades. The Crimean government has also declared its autonomy a few days ago.

The far right-wing faction now in power in Kiev are fans of Adolf Hitler, btw.

Some info about Russian army vs Ukrainian army

With growing talk of war, Ukraine's military is heavily ill-equipped to deal with Russia.
Ukraine has 64,750 soldiers compared to Russia's 285,000.
And its not just ground troops that has Ukraine outmatched.
Al Jazeera talks to Alisa Lockwood, a analyst of political risk.

TritonTaranis


NATO will act, and Russia will either run or be run over... No matter which way you look at it, Russia will be overwhelmed by a full strength NATO, and for those that think it'll be like a Iraq or afghan lol, we're talking conventional warfare, gloves off

NATO won't stand for Russia bulling and land grabbing on its Cold War boarders

NATO won't do anything but tut loudly, and have meetings about it.

I hope a lesson has been learned here. As much as i dislike Putin
It can't be denied that the West was meddling in Russia's house.

Obviously the bear has woken up to someone eating his porridge
and is extremely grumpy about.

The Moral of the story is .. don't try and eat someone else's porridge.

We can only make a best guess as far as Geo politics is concerned, and what
the real truth is, but maybe this is the start of the End of Western Interference in other Country's
affairs.

Maybe I'm totally wrong and Russia is interested in getting back it's buffer states.

Only time will tell.

Astrocyte
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Oh please... Chances are, this thing will blow over. Russia is far too interested in continued economic growth, too wary of it's own domestic insecurity, both in the south, and with Vladimir Putins legitimacy as president - to just recklessly pursue war with the Ukraine.

If Russia is smart, they'll devise another method - or, hopefully, count their losses and give up on their expansionist ambitions with former soviet states.

Blow over lol

Blow up more like

Are you watching

Some news about the flagship of Ukrain
24tv.ua...

He said the frigate had been about anti-piracy operations under NATO's "Ocean Shield" and the EU "Atalanta" in the Gulf of Aden and the western Indian Ocean. Now he is in the naval base of the Hellenic Republic Navy Court (O. Crete) to replenish stocks.

alldaylong

TritonTaranis

mash3d
The only way out of this mess.
Ukraine gives up Crimea. Sucks but that's the new reality.

That's never going to happen

The allies never let Nazi Germany and hitler get away with it and they certainly won't let Russia get away with it

The allies ( excluding The U.S.S.R. of course) allowed the Soviets to annex most of Eastern Europe.
And yes, they got away with it.

You are distorting historical facts.

USSR were among the Allied forces, and the Enemy was Nazi Germany. The partition of Europe between NATO and USSR was commonly decided between Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin at Yalta.

So it was not "allowed" out of some Allied inaction. It was intended and planned by both parties.

reply to post by asen_y2k

The aggression has already IMO taken hold by elements inside the political scene, OTPOR... The pro-western anti-Russian demonstrators overthrowing the legitimately elected government, IMO, is an act of aggression. It doesn't take state sanctioned actors or a military invading a country to know when a coup is in effect.

rigel4
I hope a lesson has been learned here. As much as i dislike Putin
It can't be denied that the West was meddling in Russia's house.

Obviously the bear has woken up to someone eating his porridge
and is extremely grumpy about.

The Moral of the story is .. don't try and eat someone else's porridge.

We can only make a best guess as far as Geo politics is concerned, and what
the real truth is, but maybe this is the start of the End of Western Interference in other Country's
affairs.

Maybe I'm totally wrong and Russia is interested in getting back it's buffer states.

Only time will tell.

House?

You mean back garden

As I said before I I kick a ball over next door I generally knock before jumping over their fence and having a look in there shed and start claiming items as mine

The west is doing nothing as of yet, Ukraine is asking for help Russia has broken and violating international laws and it is not Russia planet the world has a say when people are being bullied and asking for help expelling the invaders

Russia is capitalising on Ukraine's destabilisation simply for there own gains and being sore losers as they're also doing in Syria.. Ignoring the peoples wishes and seeking to keep minority's and ethnics they have bought out in power for there own gains

Quote of the day goes to John Kerry :

"You just don't in the 21st Century behave in 19th Century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext," Mr Kerry told the CBS program Face the Nation.

Anyone else almost fall off their chair laughing at that?

Let's just hope for a peaceful outcome, threatening Russia really doesn't seem like a good idea. I see the UK have pulled out of G8 talks as well.

Totally surprised at how quickly things are escalating and the aggressive rhetoric from both sides.

Dolby_X

Acting Minister of Defense of Ukraine Igor Tenyukh decided to remove from duty, Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky.
"Because of the inability to manage the troops in extreme conditions, the decision of the Acting Minister of Defence of Ukraine, Rear Admiral DV Berezovsky suspended from duty commander of the Naval Forces of Ukraine", - reported in the Ministry of Defence.

For legal assessments of Berezovsky relevant materials submitted to prosecutors.

"Acting Commander of the Naval Forces of Ukraine appointed Rear Admiral Sergei Haiduk" - reported in the department.

24tv.ua...

Yes, it's really cool. Representative bandits nationalists who seized power by force in Kiev, called himself the Defense Minister, appoints and removes Admiral Navy))

TritonTaranis


House?

You mean back garden

As I said before I I kick a ball over next door I generally knock before jumping over their fence and having a look in there shed and start claiming items as mine

If you'd rented and paid for the use of the back garden for the next few decades you wouldn't have to knock. You could walk straight in.