Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

reply to post by Xcathdra

All Russian media I have seen covering this states they cannot confirm the rumors.

I was speculating. What "rumors"?

FSB sabotaging Kiev

'An official visit of Switzerland’s president to Ukraine has kicked off with a diplomatic blunder as the country’s coup-imposed authorities greeted him with Danish flag instead of the Swiss.

It was Swiss president, Didier Burkhalter, who pointed the mistake out to prime minister, Arseny Yatsenyuk, during their meeting on Monday.'

rt.com...

intrptr

Xcathdra

darkorange
Washington officials just have confirmed CIA chief Brennan visited Kiev over the weekend))))
He had a passport under different name. And wearing a skirt for disguise))). Ok, it was a joke about the skirt, folks. Sorry.

edit on 14-4-2014 by darkorange because: (no reason given)

This is an example of what im referring to.

Can you please link to the source where you obtained this information?


ETA - Never mind I found it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Reuters - www.reuters.com...

And so what do you make of the CIA in Kiev? Wouldn't want you to back slide here with an actual admission of how the west is meddling in the affairs of other nations… CIA chief in Kiev. Hmmm, lets see. The US admits it only after the Russians pointed it out. Further, that with todays electronic eavesdropping capability the personal visit by the head of the CIA was so he wouldn't be "overheard". And that is a scathing reflection on the CIA. Kind of like when McCain met with the terrorists in Syria, huh?

Skullduggery at its meddlesome best.

He was just delivering more cookies from Ms Nuland, nothing more than that.

Xcathdra
reply to post by intrptr

 

It confirmed he visited.

No issues there.. A few pages back I stated his visit could have been to brief Ukraine's leaders direct instead of turning over classified information to them and risking it landing in Russian hands. I speculated and wanted confirmation.

However, the purpose of his visit is not confirmed and even Russian media has stated over and over they cannot confirm the information of what his visit was for.

edit on 14-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

The purpose of his visit (apart from delivering cookies Ms Nuland sent) was to provide instructions and give orders for action against south and east. The Proof? Right after that, next day, Kiev has announced large military action against its people there.
Edit-should say ordered military action

Xcathdra

all2human
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Ukraine has zero chance of taking on Russia militarily,it's not going to happen,the will of the people of Ukraine will not support it nor have they
you can put your action figures away now.

Another example demonstrating the purpose and continued existence of NATO.

how is that? Please elaborate on example of Ukraine. I am all ears.

Xcathdra:

There is no clear anything to support CIA involvement. Do you have any sources that discusses that issue and has evidence to support it?

Before I post a link to support CIA involvement, I want to say I enjoyed your comprehensive response. I don't necessarily agree with all you state, but some I do. I'd really like to see you take a more greater advocacy role without pandering to any particular side. I think you have the intelligence and reason for such a role, and you may feel freer in adopting it.

rt.com...

rt.com...

As a side note to you and other posters, I only have empathy for the ordinary Ukrainian caught up in all of this political and military wrangling between the West and Russia. All my posts are speculative opinions, and on occassions will be supported by links to factual information I use.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Contradiction much? So you object to Russian intervention on one hand but then support NATO interferance on the other?
As though the world, not just citizens of Ukraine would prefer WW3 over a lack of rational or is that just you?

the power of people. Awesome to see.
Preventing weapon being delivered from Western Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine. The weapon that might be used on them.

www.youtube.com...=668

reply to post by cosmonova

Right after that, next day, Kiev has announced large military action against its people there.

This announcement has been given before. Just as the previous time, the "military action" didn't take place. Now the people in Kiev are pissed again because they want action, not words.

all2human
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Contradiction much? So you object to Russian intervention on one hand but then support NATO interferance on the other?
As though the world, not just citizens of Ukraine would prefer WW3? or is that just you?

And maybe a few people from those NATO countries live there. Compare that to 8-9 million of Russians.
As a mater of fact there is more Russians in Ukraine than total number of people living in many European countries.
Fact. Since Ukraine is on the brink of collapse (thanks to Ms Nuland cookies), Russia has every right to interfere and prevent a bloodshed and total civil war. Thugs in Kiev are blind, have no power nor numbers to do that. And looks like they should be concerned more about their own faith according to events in Kiev right now.

Wookiep
reply to post by cosmonova

 

Right after that, next day, Kiev has announced large military action against its people there.

This announcement has been given before. Just as the previous time, the "military action" didn't take place. Now the people in Kiev are pissed again because they want action, not words.

edit on 14-4-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Announcement yes but not orders. Orders were given the day after CIA boss visited.

intrptr
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

All Russian media I have seen covering this states they cannot confirm the rumors.

I was speculating. What "rumors"?

The reason for CIA directors trip to Kiev. They reported he was there but they have absolutely no idea what the meeting was about. The comments about giving the go ahead for the military operations in the east and south. They cant confirm any of that, and their articles state that.

cosmonova

Xcathdra
reply to post by intrptr

 

It confirmed he visited.

No issues there.. A few pages back I stated his visit could have been to brief Ukraine's leaders direct instead of turning over classified information to them and risking it landing in Russian hands. I speculated and wanted confirmation.

However, the purpose of his visit is not confirmed and even Russian media has stated over and over they cannot confirm the information of what his visit was for.

edit on 14-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

The purpose of his visit (apart from delivering cookies Ms Nuland sent) was to provide instructions and give orders for action against south and east. The Proof? Right after that, next day, Kiev has announced large military action against its people there.
Edit-should say ordered military action

edit on 14-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)

Yes - Like I said before Russian media is reporting but they are stating they cant confirm the purpose of the visit.

Xcathdra

cosmonova

Xcathdra
reply to post by intrptr

 

It confirmed he visited.

No issues there.. A few pages back I stated his visit could have been to brief Ukraine's leaders direct instead of turning over classified information to them and risking it landing in Russian hands. I speculated and wanted confirmation.

However, the purpose of his visit is not confirmed and even Russian media has stated over and over they cannot confirm the information of what his visit was for.

edit on 14-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

The purpose of his visit (apart from delivering cookies Ms Nuland sent) was to provide instructions and give orders for action against south and east. The Proof? Right after that, next day, Kiev has announced large military action against its people there.
Edit-should say ordered military action

edit on 14-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)

Yes - Like I said before Russian media is reporting but they are stating they cant confirm the purpose of the visit.

what is your opinion on the fact that in the middle of current events in Eastern and South Ukraine, CIA boss comes to visit
self-proclaimed Government representatives and right next day self-proclaimed president has ordered a massive military offensive against his own people? Notice it is a CIA boss.

elysiumfire
Before I post a link to support CIA involvement, I want to say I enjoyed your comprehensive response. I don't necessarily agree with all you state, but some I do. I'd really like to see you take a more greater advocacy role without pandering to any particular side. I think you have the intelligence and reason for such a role, and you may feel freer in adopting it.

Thank you for the comment and thank you for at least engaging my position with an open mind. I will take your suggestion and do my best to apply it in my responses.

There are a lot of issues regarding US actions that I don't support - both on this topic as well as other non related. There are 3 sides to every disagreement - Side A's, Side B's and somewhere in the middle is side C - The truth. The reason I ask for resource links is I want to read the info myself so I can research it. If someone wants to persuade me to one side or the other I want to see the info.

Its one thing for me to type a response that makes claims from an article I read. Without the article linked people either try to find it or they read the "paraphrase" the poster used. Trying to convey information is difficult enough using text. It becomes more problematic when the people involved in the conversation are from different countries / ideologies / opposite sides of the fence etc.

While I don't trust Russian media, I still read it as it provides insight into their thought process. Information in one article can help explain actions / mindset in another. As an example Putin gave a speech back in 2005 that addresses some of what we are seeing today. Its also interesting to note that Putin misses the Soviet Union. At the time of the collapse Putin actually worked for Gorbachev. Now we see his administration wanting to prosecute Gorbachev.

The reason I find that interesting and telling is because of what it represents. Putin is taking an action against a person responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union. By even entertaining the idea of going after Gorbachev, we can see Putin is in the process of correcting past mistakes - up to and including punishment of those involved in the collapse. It forces the question of just how far is Putin willing to go to "correct history".

elysiumfire
rt.com...
rt.com...

I have read the articles however what I was looking for was confirmation / more details on the purpose of his visit. I am not seeing anything that can confirm the speculation as to why he visited Ukraine. They confirmed he visited, however that's it. Nothing else has been confirmed.

elysiumfire
As a side note to you and other posters, I only have empathy for the ordinary Ukrainian caught up in all of this political and military wrangling between the West and Russia. All my posts are speculative opinions, and on occassions will be supported by links to factual information I use.

No worries... For what it is worth if you have any issues with my posts / comments just ask. Its difficult at times to convey proper context / tone / intent / etc through typed text. Add in the international equation and it raises to another level. I would rather have someone ask me to clarify what I typed / meant / intended.

Thank you again.

all2human
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Contradiction much? So you object to Russian intervention on one hand but then support NATO interferance on the other?
As though the world, not just citizens of Ukraine would prefer WW3 over a lack of rational or is that just you?

edit on 14-4-2014 by all2human because: (no reason given)

Russia has stated they wont invade and had nothing to do with what's going on in Ukraine, so how is Russia interfering?




The government of Ukraine asked for US assistance. Since they are the lawful government I don't see any reason not to assist them. Since we were asked, we are not interfering.

Just as Russia is not interfering in Syria.. or Georgia...Or Belarus... Or Kazakhstan....

cosmonova
Compare that to 8-9 million of Russians.

Ukrainians, not Russian. Ukrainian law does not allow for dual citizenship. If they are Russian and are responsible for the attacks on government buildings then they are a hostile invasion force.



Demographics of Ukraine
Interestingly enough the demographics of Ukraine tell a story. Spoiler alert - Russia is not the good guy in it.

cosmonova
what is your opinion on the fact that in the middle of current events in Eastern and South Ukraine, CIA boss comes to visit
self-proclaimed Government representatives and right next day self-proclaimed president has ordered a massive military offensive against his own people? Notice it is a CIA boss.

My opinion is there are no facts to support the claim he gave an order / told leadership to give orders. Even Russian media cannot present facts to support the speculation and they actually state that in the articles.

Using that logic one can make the argument that when Dmitry Medvedev visited Crimea, and pro Ukrainian people were assaulted the following day, that Medvedev must have visited to give an order to Crimean's to assault pro Ukrainian people.

Hence the reason I want something other than speculation.

As for massive military assault on his own people -

Once again you undermine your position. If its against their own people then Russia has no business being involved - period. Just as Russia told everyone else with regards to their actions in Chechnya.

Xcathdra

cosmonova
Compare that to 8-9 million of Russians.

Ukrainians, not Russian. Ukrainian law does not allow for dual citizenship. If they are Russian and are responsible for the attacks on government buildings then they are a hostile invasion force.



Demographics of Ukraine
Interestingly enough the demographics of Ukraine tell a story. Spoiler alert - Russia is not the good guy in it.

Check the demographic table you sent, do you see Russians in that table, I do. It has nothing to do with citizenship but rather
ethnicity.

Xcathdra

cosmonova
what is your opinion on the fact that in the middle of current events in Eastern and South Ukraine, CIA boss comes to visit
self-proclaimed Government representatives and right next day self-proclaimed president has ordered a massive military offensive against his own people? Notice it is a CIA boss.

My opinion is there are no facts to support the claim he gave an order / told leadership to give orders. Even Russian media cannot present facts to support the speculation and they actually state that in the articles.

Using that logic one can make the argument that when Dmitry Medvedev visited Crimea, and pro Ukrainian people were assaulted the following day, that Medvedev must have visited to give an order to Crimean's to assault pro Ukrainian people.

Hence the reason I want something other than speculation.

As for massive military assault on his own people -

Once again you undermine your position. If its against their own people then Russia has no business being involved - period. Just as Russia told everyone else with regards to their actions in Chechnya.

edit on 14-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

You are dodging my question. I have asked for your opinion on reasons for his visit. What are the reasons for his visit in your opinion?