Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

dragonridr

cosmonova

dragonridr

cosmonova

dragonridr

cosmonova

dragonridr

cosmonova

Xcathdra

cosmonova

Xcathdra
reply to post by intrptr

 

It confirmed he visited.

No issues there.. A few pages back I stated his visit could have been to brief Ukraine's leaders direct instead of turning over classified information to them and risking it landing in Russian hands. I speculated and wanted confirmation.

However, the purpose of his visit is not confirmed and even Russian media has stated over and over they cannot confirm the information of what his visit was for.

edit on 14-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

The purpose of his visit (apart from delivering cookies Ms Nuland sent) was to provide instructions and give orders for action against south and east. The Proof? Right after that, next day, Kiev has announced large military action against its people there.
Edit-should say ordered military action

edit on 14-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)

Yes - Like I said before Russian media is reporting but they are stating they cant confirm the purpose of the visit.

what is your opinion on the fact that in the middle of current events in Eastern and South Ukraine, CIA boss comes to visit
self-proclaimed Government representatives and right next day self-proclaimed president has ordered a massive military offensive against his own people? Notice it is a CIA boss.

I really hate to ruin your timeline but they have been talking of using force for over a week. He finally set a deadline but all along was talking he would use force if necessary. So i gues that means his CIA boss was all late considering everything was already in the works. Now do you have any proof of CIA involvement other than your speculations. Any operational plans or heck even someone who overheard the conversation? See looks to me you have nothing than a theory you invented.

lol at proof about intelligence agency activities.
Speaking about proof, where is the UN document that give Ukraine a green light to use military force? You said UN gave a green light to Ukraine, please show us official UN document. Well as you said, theory you invented.

Watch the speeches by the UN security council they actually said force is justified in the situation because it is an attack on their sovereignty.

here its a long video but i think the security council made things very clear on their thoughts and what Russia was doing if they're not careful Russia will get thrown out the UN because everyone made it clear to the poor Russian ambassador what they thought.

webtv.un.org...

you see there is a difference between 'I think' and official document. 'i think' is what you have tried to present as an official UN statement in your previous emails.
I would like to see a list of countries who justified a use of military force at that meeting.

Oh so there statements on the record arent enough you do realize they record the meetings for a reason dont you? The security council meeting is now official record and indeed can be cited later if the UN takes further action. I know your used to a dictatorship but the UN works through votes.

I will try again, it was only a session and there is no official statement as a result of that session.
We have seen what we have seen before, US and EU attacking Russia for alleged interference, Russia doing opposite and India, China and many others took a neutral stand. So where is the green light from UN for a military use?
I have even checked all major online media and nothing like what you'd like to present.

The Ukrainian ambassador left that meeting knowing he had the support of the security council to use force with the excpetion of Russia of course. See the Russians thought the security council would advise them against using force its the reason they called the meeting. Just didnt work out like they expected but again Russia has been miscalculating responses since this began. As i said read the transcripts there on the UN website apparently your search wasnt adequate. As far as official UN general assembly things so far the only thing they authorized was the observers. But as i said if Russia keeps pushing that will change as well. Now you may not like the transcripts but they are a UN document and every country at the meeting explained they were ok with the use of force. Especially lithuania i suggest you watch her speech. She was all to worried that Russia would try to help ethinic Russians in her country you could tell.

So according to you all countries apart from Russia gave support to Ukraine to use a force. And that is all recorded.
Man right now you look like someone stuck in quicksand.
1.China
'China hopes that all parties in Ukraine can keep calm and exercise restraint, explore ways to dissolve the crisis through political dialogue based on a full consideration and accommodation of the legitimate rights, interests and concerns of all regions and ethnic communities, and promote political stability and economic development of Ukraine. China supports the continuation of dialogue and consultation among all parties to push for early and positive progress of the political settlement of the Ukrainian crisis.'
www.fmprc.gov.cn...

2. India
“He emphasised the consistent position India had on the issues of unity and territorial integrity of countries. Prime Minister expressed his hope that all sides would exercise restraint and work together constructively to find political and diplomatic solutions that protected the legitimate interests of all countries in the region and ensured long term peace and stability in Europe and beyond,” a Ministry of External Affairs statement said.'
indianexpress.com...

reply to post by BobAthome


I agree and its a bad pattern negotiations are coming to an end and that narrows down the remaining options.Russias continued refusal to negotiate this with Ukraine is narrowing this down to a major conflict and in that everyone loses.

dragonridr
reply to post by BobAthome

 

I agree and its a bad pattern negotiations are coming to an end and that narrows down the remaining options.Russias continued refusal to negotiate this with Ukraine is narrowing this down to a major conflict and in that everyone loses.

out of touch again

'Senior officials from the EU, Russia, the US and Ukraine are to meet next week to discuss the worsening situation in Ukraine.'

www.bbc.com...

The Right Sector and Svoboda are pushing the current Junta in Kiev to take military action. This is per the backing and push of the US and NATO.

This way, a military action will curb the protests. If Russia joins in i.e. invades to protect the Russian populations, then US/EU go ahead and put various sanctions on Russia to weaken it economically.

However, we all know that sanctions will effect EU economies severely also. Hence they might not follow along the US lines.

End result would be, because of RS and Svoboda, an established government in Kiev broke down which resulted in Ukraine losing Crimea. Now these losers are soon going to lose S-E Ukraine in one swipe as they are pushing for a military action.

The real military action needed is towards the RS and Svoboda. That might save Ukraine from totally falling apart.

Idiots in Kiev are still following the line of US. Once Russia starts throwing punches, they will not find any US around. They will only shout from distance.

victor7
The Right Sector and Svoboda are pushing the current Junta in Kiev to take military action. This is per the backing and push of the US and NATO.

This way, a military action will curb the protests. If Russia joins in i.e. invades to protect the Russian populations, then US/EU go ahead and put various sanctions on Russia to weaken it economically.

However, we all know that sanctions will effect EU economies severely also. Hence they might not follow along the US lines.

End result would be, because of RS and Svoboda, an established government in Kiev broke down which resulted in Ukraine losing Crimea. Now these losers are soon going to lose S-E Ukraine in one swipe as they are pushing for a military action.

The real military action needed is towards the RS and Svoboda. That might save Ukraine from totally falling apart.

Idiots in Kiev are still following the line of US. Once Russia starts throwing punches, they will not find any US around. They will only shout from distance.

I tend to agree with that scenario and just to add that Right Sector and Svoboda are already taking a part in military action as a National Guard force since special police and Ukrainian army forces are not really willing to get involved in south and east of the country. They do not want to take sides in civil war unlike nazi thugs from Right Sector. Well as people who reject Kiev
said, 'welcome to hell'.

reply to post by cosmonova


Russia should send in plain clothed special forces, well armed and ranked to break the jaws and necks of the RS and Svoboda.

There will cries and shouts but officially Russia has not invaded. These are just self defense forces. Russia can openly provide arms supplies to these forces. One or two arms depots can be staged as been attacked and soon tanks and other armor will start to show up with these pro-Russia SDFs.

If West goes ahead to put sanctions or Ukrainian army comes to help RS/Svoboda, then Russia can punch through hard by official invasion and cut Ukraine into two pieces in 3 days.

Kiev Junta will be wise enough. Time to outlaw RS/Svoboda and save their country.

Time to boot the sly US out of their country's affairs.

reply to post by victor7


I can accept both sides,Russia deserves to be raked over the coals politically, did they cross the line in Ukraine? yes, i don't buy it that Russian's were ever in 'danger' and their argument is gone regarding outside intervention pretty much anytime in the future
However, based on their actions to date I don't think the parliamentary lead coup,and the appointed head of the government reflect the will of most Ukrainian's or at least half of them, does that give another state or organization to assume control over the disenfranchised? no, though same could be said about their new govt ramming the EU,NATO,IMF down their throats immediately after assuming power.

all2human
reply to post by victor7

 

I can accept both sides,Russia deserves to be raked over the coals politically, they did cross the line in Ukraine, i don't buy it that Russian's were ever in 'danger' and their argument is gone regarding outside intervention anytime in the future
However, based on their actions to date I don't think the parliament lead coup,and the appointed head of the government reflect the will of most Ukrainian's or at least half of them.

Forget about Russians in Ukraine............it is whole of Russians in Russia are in danger as a result of NATO expansion now knocking the doors of Ukraine.

Russia had to draw the line somewhere.

West is lucky that Russia is not creating problems elsewhere like Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico and many more. Just supply arms worth $10M and White House will forget which "general area" of the map Ukraine is located.

Russia has been very gentle and patient and it has been paying for such meek demeanor. Not any more !!

Here's the latest from VICE. (They are behind, it's from the 9-10th, still interesting)

Wookiep
Here's the latest from VICE. (They are behind, it's from the 9-10th, still interesting)

Really awesome video. Thanks for posting this.

Probably a silly question, but, do the Ukrainians who don't want to join Russia, really want the backing of the EU and USA?
Is there a choice to stand alone?
Seems to me like that they have to choose between the better of the 2 devils

reply to post by Village Idiot


Originally no they didnt in fact turned it down at first saying they were going to wait until after the elections to decide.But than Russia started messing with them again after Crimea and they signed an agreement with the EU. So far every action Putin has done has caused the exact opposite of what he wanted.More former eastern bloc countries are now petitioning to join NATO even Norway who wanted to stay out of NATO until it saw the Russian aggression.Hell the way things are going Chinas liable to apply because hes made every country arounf him nervous because history teaches us this has been done before.

more proof that fascism has taken over in Kiev.

'presidential candidate in Ukraine, Verkhovna Rada deputy Oleg Tsarev beaten and kidnapped in Kiev on the night of April 15, 2014. Right Sector and radicals are to blame.
Around the same time, unidentified individuals blocked and damaged the vehicle carrying another presidential candidate, Mikhail Dobkin, while attacking and injuring his aides on their way to that same talk show.
Dobkin admitted to the attack during a live phone interview later on the show. Other media reported that the radicals poured green antiseptic solution and flour on Dobkin.

The two candidates were scheduled to join a third presidential candidate, Yulia Tymoshenko, on the talk show.'

www.youtube.com...

both of them are from Eastern Ukraine, just shows that people there have any right to ask for independence.

reply to post by Wookiep


You know something i now realize after watching that video why Russia's death rate has been lower than their birth rate. They eat mayonnaise and lard on a sandwich thats a heart attack waiting to happen. No wonder there population has been dropping.

reply to post by dragonridr


Russians do eat lots of fat but the real problem in their society is Vodka.

dragonridr
reply to post by Wookiep

 

You know something i now realize after watching that video why Russia's death rate has been lower than their birth rate. They eat mayonnaise and lard on a sandwich thats a heart attack waiting to happen. No wonder there population has been dropping.

you meant to say higher not lower I assume?
Actually that has change as well with Mr Putin.

'The decline slowed considerably in late 2000s, and in 2009 Russia recorded population growth for the first time in 15 years, adding 23,300 people.[9][10] Key reasons for the slow current population growth are improving health care, changing fertility patterns among younger women, falling emigration and steady influx of immigrants from the ex-USSR countries. In 2012, Russia's population increased by 292,400 people.[11]

As of 2013, Russian TFR of 1.707 children per woman[5] was the highest in Eastern, Southern and Central Europe. In 2013, Russia experienced the first natural population growth since 1990 at 22,700 people. Taking into account immigration, the population grew by 294,500 people.[12]'

en.wikipedia.org...

victor7
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Russians do eat lots of fat but the real problem in their society is Vodka.

Yeah i saw the other Vice news where they said it smells like a frat party at the occupied site because they had to dump out everyones alcohol. See in itself theres a solution invite everyone to an open bar for the negotiations could save alot of time in diplomacy. And in total seriousness i have to admit i like my vodka too the wife says its because im part Russian. My grandfather came to the states from Russia. And get this my mothers german talk about a strange combination but thats why i learned german dad avoided speaking Russian. Think he had to deny he was Russian alot in school so he kind of dropped it altogether.

Two pro-Russian politicians have been attacked by pro-Ukrainian activists in the capital Kiev as tensions grow over unrest in eastern parts of Ukraine, where pro-Russian gunmen have seized government buildings in nearly 10 cities.

Oleh Tsaryov, a pro-Russian lawmaker and a candidate in the May 25 presidential elections, was beaten by dozens of enraged activists in the early hours of Tuesday as he was leaving a television studio.

The activists pelted him with eggs, shouted insults and then assaulted him. Tsaryov's press service said in a statement that he was "brutally beaten". Another Russian-leaning politician and presidential hopeful, Mikhaylo Dobkin, was sprayed with a green disinfectant and had flour thrown at him late Monday. Moscow accused Kiev authorities of condoning such activism. [AP

AlJazeera

link

The relevant parts of this:

Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov has announced that Ukrainian special forces had launched an anti-terrorist operation in the northern part of Donetsk oblast before dawn on April 15.

"Tonight an anti-terrorist operation began in the north of Donetsk oblast. It will be conducted step-by-step, responsibly, deliberately. The goal of these actions, I want to underline, is to defend the citizens of Ukraine," said Turchynov, speaking before the Verkhovna Rada.

It looks like they've started the party...a day late. Perhaps deliberately?

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


Thanks for that, another thread was looking for more developments on that.