Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

reply to post by Wookiep


No problem. Here's another source that's from a bit more mainstream:

Wall Street Journal link

Ukraine's acting president said Tuesday that a military operation to wrest control of cities in eastern Ukraine from pro-Russian militants has begun.

I suppose the next 12-18 hours will determine how the next part of this is going to go.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR 1m

Separatists left seized police office in #Kramatorsk. @novostidnua |PR News #Donetsk

dragonridr
reply to post by BobAthome

 

Russias continued refusal to negotiate this with Ukraine is narrowing this down to a major conflict and in that everyone loses.

Thats not true and if it was true then they would only be taking a leaf out the americans book.

Russia has not cut the gas off even with the bill being well late and don't let forget that the Ambasidor from Iran has been banned from representing his country!

The USA is fighting in about 20 places around the world, no one asked them too and "We the people" in Europe would like the USA to keep it's nose out of our backyard and go back home to pick a fight far away from us.

This thing never seems to get started....

#Donetsk region: #Ukraine forces and commanders are ready to start anti-terrorist operation its top priority is to avoid civilian casualties

Next we will hear they are very ready to begin. Then very very ready....

asen_y2k
This thing never seems to get started....

#Donetsk region: #Ukraine forces and commanders are ready to start anti-terrorist operation its top priority is to avoid civilian casualties

Next we will hear they are very ready to begin. Then very very ready....

I'm so confused. According to the Kyiv Post, it seems to have already started?

Turchynov: Anti-terrorist operation has begun in northern Donetsk

11:23 a.m. -- Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov has announced that Ukrainian special forces had launched an anti-terrorist operation in the northern part of Donetsk oblast before dawn on April 15.

"Tonight an anti-terrorist operation began in the north of Donetsk oblast. It will be conducted step-by-step, responsibly, deliberately. The goal of these actions, I want to underline, is to defend the citizens of Ukraine," said Turchynov, speaking before the Verkhovna Rada.

“I call on those who want to show their heroism – join the National Guard or the Ukrainian army or police units. But smashing the windows of the Verkhovna Rada is not a heroism at all,” Turchynov said, referring to the group of people who gathered near the parliament during the night of April 14, demanding that Interior Minister Arsen Avakov resign.

“People are asking for help now, and we need to do everything to defend them.” Turchynov stressed during the session. -- Isaac Webb and Olena Goncharova

With so much info from both sides coming in so fast, I'm having a hard time keeping it straight.

Now this

#Turchynov announced start of military operation in north of #Donetsk region. #Kramatorsk: police office was released, it operates normally.

That footage with the tank and civilians was incredible, it showed amazing restraint on the part of the crew in the tank, I thought it was going to escalate.
Imagine if that is a convoy of 15-20 tanks next time? will it be so peaceful?

cosmonova

You are dodging my question. I have asked for your opinion on reasons for his visit. What are the reasons for his visit in your opinion?

And I gave my response as well as directed another to my post a few pages back.

It is not unheard of for a nation to brief another nation in person. In this instance the US government is reluctant to provide intelligence information to Ukraine because of the former relationship between Ukraine and Russia. Specifically their level of cooperation in military and intelligence matters over the years. There is concern about who can be trusted and cannot be trusted in the Ukraine government.

The US is not going to send critical intelligence information that could jeopardize our methods.
The US cannot send over an analyst since it involved questions about policy.
The Us cannot send someone over who cannot speak for the US Government.

The logical choice would be to send the Director who is privy to all intelligence on the topic. He is privy to the goals of the US Administration in that area. He can speak for the US government and as head of the CIA his responses are not ones that could be dismissed. He would be able to provide an intelligence briefing while at the same time able to determine on the spot if he should reveal more information should questions arise, where other members of the CIA would not be able to make those snap decisions because of security / military / political implications involved. Finally a briefing by the Director emphasizes a certain level of commitment the US has towards what is going on in Ukraine.

As an additional observation using the CIA director allows the US government to refuse to discuss the topic at depth citing security information. Had they US sent over any other envoy, chances are they would be political (Sec State) where the media could push harder to determine what was discussed. In addition there would be a greater chance of a leak from the political wing than one from the Security wing of the government. Should the briefing blow up in our faces it allows the CIA Director to modify the reasons he is present to isolate fallout in the political realm. It allows the US to continue to push diplomatic avenues while being able to control the damage from a security avenue.


With that stated, absent confirmable information as to what was discussed, its nothing more than speculation - on both sides.

I take the view that he was providing an intelligence briefing while also exploring various possibilities to expose Russian influence. Specifically the sudden change in Ukraine's position towards a referendum on regional autonomy / greater autonomy. The moment Ukraine agreed to it, Russia went quiet and changed its game plan.... again.

Anyways.. That's my position / opinion on the matter. There is nothing concrete to support the claims that the CIA director was present giving orders to Ukraine to fire on Pro Russian supporters. There is no concrete evidence to support my position on the reason for his visit. There is no concrete evidence what so ever, aside from the fact he visited, to support any claims from any side.

AnIntellectualRedneck
link

The relevant parts of this:

Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov has announced that Ukrainian special forces had launched an anti-terrorist operation in the northern part of Donetsk oblast before dawn on April 15.

"Tonight an anti-terrorist operation began in the north of Donetsk oblast. It will be conducted step-by-step, responsibly, deliberately. The goal of these actions, I want to underline, is to defend the citizens of Ukraine," said Turchynov, speaking before the Verkhovna Rada.

It looks like they've started the party...a day late. Perhaps deliberately?

reply to post by MyMindIsMyOwn


reply to post by asen_y2k






I think the operations are ongoing but small in nature. It would allow Ukraine to deal with the pro Russian groups without antagonizing Russia to the point where they will continue the invasion.

christian21
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

hey

BumbleBea Tuna....

Or is that a death threat hidden in a greeting?

Im referencing your signature line.

Five day weather forecast for Ukraine . . .

Monday: 22 degrees Celsius with a slight chance for rain.

Tuesday: 26 degrees Celsius sunny with clear skies and light wind.

Wednesday: 27 degrees Celsius and sunny and partly cloudy.

Thursday: 30 degrees Celsius, clear skies, and sunny.

Friday: 10,000,000 degrees Kelvin. Bring sunscreen.

Crimea&East ‏@IndependentKrym · 26m
Ukrainian plane fired near Airport at #Kramatorsk local confirm the information on the Radio .at least 1 victim confirmed #war

Antimaydan @ anti_maidan · 3 mins
There is a fight! There are dead! Kramators'k! Russia 24

Gregor Peter‏@L0gg0l·12 secs
Unconfirmed reports of 11 people killed in fighting at airfield in Ukraine's Kramatorsk


The Interpreter ‏@Interpreter_Mag 1 min
Ukraine Liveblog: Ukrainian military reportedly starting operation to retake Kramatorsk Airport

Russian Market‏@russian_market·7 secs
#Ukrainian forces storming the airport in Kramatorsk, the military jet failed to land and opened fire on protesters

@L0gg0l: UKRAINE MILITARY CONVOY ENTERS SLOVIANSK -- @Yavdoha

Looks like it might actually have finally started.

Alexander Marquardt@MarquardtA · 4m
3 helicopters with #Ukraine special forces just took off from Izyum, APCs and tanks, along w special forces in buses still here.

Jerry Popowicz@JerryPopowicz · 2m
RT @obk "First helicopter packed with special forces now taking off. My guess is to Kramatorsk" pic.twitter.com/JYqVouuGF2 #Ukraine #Russia

Olaf Koens@obk · 4m
First two helicopters are off towards Slavyansk, two others just landed here

Yup looks like it started, will give you updates.