Wikileaks Video Released!!

a couple of children dead? thats unfortunate. a few civilians blown to pieces? thats sad but what got to me was, there was no fighting. just a few guys flying around untouchable pulling the trigger. how is this combat? ground troops move in after a few missile level the place and it gives them post traumatic whatever blah blah blah. why does america bother to train their soldiers-i mean street cleaners, those aren't soldiers. just a bunch of coward who lack the balls to engage without air support. combat tested battle proven my azz.

plain and simple murders, of to Hague with them since it seams that somewhere along the lines of their training someone apparently forgot to mention that there are rules/law that one has to interact according to/by in war, and when them rules are broken you are no better then the aggressor,



in other words

a criminal by your own definition and use of logic that would have justified your previous actions/intent.

Originally posted by sos37
Okay, so I want to take a more objective look at the footage. I've watched the video again and I believe this tragic occurrence is a combination of genuine misunderstanding and an overzealous few in the military who want to shoot because they think it's fun. Look at this pic of the footage early on. You see two guys with straps over their shoulders.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b6ed2458734a.jpg[/atsimg]

So first, keep in mind these troops have been over there for a long time now and they've seen a lot more insurgency than you and I have seen. They know what to look for. Seeing guys with straps on their shoulders in a group in public probably set off alarm bells.

You also have to think about one other thing - why were war photographers in this area to begin with? Probably for the same reason the military was - this particular area was hot! So let's assume the area is hot (hot with insurgent activity), a crowd appears and you see men with guns and two with shoulder straps - we'll get to the guns next.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/175e47ba7d95.jpg[/atsimg]

While the still frame of the above pic doesn't look like much, in the video you can tell that these objects are clearly rifles. The appearance of guns in a crowd adds to the tension. It's what happens next that send the helicopter guys into a tizzy.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cb33b1f116c6.jpg[/atsimg]

The camera guy, Saeed, peers around a corner with a huge telephoto lens on a camera to get a shot of something. Remember we've already established that this must be a hot area, hence the reason why the war photographers and the military are here in the first place. From the air, it's not really clear what this is. But if I were a chopper pilot who was used to seeing RPG carriers take the same stance from around a corner with an RPG launcher, I'd be on red alert, too.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/47c0d3f1a028.jpg[/atsimg]

Another shot of Saeed with his telephoto lens and the shadow it cast.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8146a5a48292.jpg[/atsimg]

Here's a zoom of Saeed with his telephoto lens in the above pic. Now I want you to look at this pic here. This is not a pic from this event:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/096ce33f9ce6.jpg[/atsimg]

Notice the bottom of the RPG launcher. I've grayscaled the image and blurred it to match what the black and white image in the chopper cam would look like. There's a striking similarity between a telephoto lens and the bottom of an RPG launcher, especially when the image is blurry. Do you see how a mistake could have been made at that point?

Now, that being said, this is the point in the video where I start to lose faith in some human beings.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/761344203797.jpg[/atsimg]

The above still has the guy's single word summary as he surveys the carnage they've just unleashed - "Nice".

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bb3442c11a7f.jpg[/atsimg]

Now when the van comes up, I honestly CANNOT make out that what is circled in red in the pic above are children. I can't tell that they are even people until they start moving because the quality of the video is so bad and it's in black and white.

[continued]

Okay, so you want our soldiers to be sad and depressed about killing what they clearly thought was our enemy? Our soldiers are trained to be killing machines against our enemies that coupled with the fact that adrenalin was surely pumping gives these guys every right to be celebrating after killing "terrorists". I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want a military who are a bunch of carebears when it comes to doing service for our country.

I'm sorry but you guys are blowing this out of proportion, end of story.

‘Your television stations too, screen more and more scenes of violence. If those responsible were obliged to study psychology before being able to undertake such grave responsibilities, a step in the right direction would have been taken. Your reporters seem to seek and even prey on scenes of violence, murder, tragedy and disaster; we are sickened by their behavior.

‘The leaders of a country, the journalists, in fact anyone who, by their position, is able to exert influence on the people, has an enormous responsibility towards millions of people who are no more nor less than his fellow creatures. Too often, even those who have been elected to their positions by the people, forget the obligations they have in this regard -until, that is, a few months prior to a new election, when it occurs to them that the people are dissatisfied and might vote them out.

‘This is not the case with journalists though, as they have not needed to inspire confidence in the people in order to attain their positions; and yet they have a similar power to influence in ways which are good or bad.

‘Indeed, they are capable of doing much good when they alert public attention to danger and injustice - and this should be their main function." The Angel Thoa The Thiaoouba Prophecy by Michel Desmarquet.

I wish I worked at a big market news station.

They couldn't tell that Saeed didn't have a weapon?? Really? Because from THEIR view I can see he has a camera strap and a phone in his hand.

And one of them has the utter nerve to call himself "crazy horse".

May God have mercy on their souls for the evil they did that day.

I sincerely believe these "soldiers" are possessed by evil and have lost every bit of their minds. This is what evil looks like.

They were really getting off on killing these people. And people wonder why support and respect for the troops has sunk.

[edit on 6-4-2010 by Asherah]

Originally posted by Final Solstice
I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want a military who are a bunch of carebears when it comes to doing service for our country.

I'm sorry but you guys are blowing this out of proportion, end of story.

I don't want a bunch of carebears either. Just some people who has the ability to make good decisions. They were chomping at the bit to gun these people down. There's no excuse for this..at all.

Originally posted by Asherah
They couldn't tell that Saeed didn't have a weapon?? Really? Because from THEIR view I can see he has a camera strap and a phone in his hand.

And one of them has the utter nerve to call himself "crazy horse".

May God have mercy on their souls for the evil they did that day.

I sincerely believe these "soldiers" are possessed by evil and have lost every bit of their minds. This is what evil looks like.

They were really getting off on killing these people. And people wonder why support and respect for the troops has sunk.

[edit on 6-4-2010 by Asherah]

Oh really? And you could see this the first time through without pausing the video? Put yourself in these soldiers positions. It's easy for people to sit at their computer screens and re-watch this video 100 times looking for what others have already pointed out. Try being in the heat of war and never making any bad desicions with lives of both you and your comrads on the ground potentially on the line.

If these soldiers truelly knew these guys on the ground were civilians (and I'm yet to be conviced that all of them were) and they fired any way it would be one thing. I'm convinced with the adrenalin and language these guys were speaking with that they truelly thought they were firing on the enemy in which case they should show no remorse in their actions.

[edit on 6-4-2010 by Final Solstice]

[edit on 6-4-2010 by Final Solstice]

reply to post by Final Solstice


Man I haven't been here in a long time. I agree with you, things do happen quite a bit faster in combat and these little details that are oh so easy to catch while sitting in a nice chair in a cozy place are a little more difficult to distinguish with adrenaline pumping and the realization that your life and your comrades life are both at stake.

That being said, it's still pretty disgusting to watch the wounded man getting shot, and the same goes for the two men trying to help him. I think a more appropriate form of action would be to follow that van to wherever it was going, hell, you may find a whole bunker full of bad guys.

Interesting.

Channel 10 news in Australia just gave this story a full 90 seconds, only midway through the one-hour news broadcast tho. Still, not bad at all. Better than nothing.


Then tho in typical mind pattern programming they follow the story up with one concerning the Taliban admitting to a bombing in Pakistan. Negative reinforcement at the end of the day.

And then to ensure no-one thinks too much bout it, the story after the Taliban one is about Michael Jackson....

VERY annoying sequencing! Tho, it still got a decent crack for what it's worth. Haha i emailed them so maybe i made a small difference today haa

This is insane.. The guy was clearly holding a camera too. Not an RPG. The pilots are probably trained to look for insurgents holding weapons but how can they ever be sure? Alot of assumptions were made about the supposed insurgents and amidst a flurry of radio communications the authorization was given to fire on the target.

At one point it does look as if someone is holding an elongated object like a walking stick or something. This could've also been assumed to be an AK-47 when it obviously was not. Then the camera being aimed down that alleyway was assumed to be an RPG. This kind of situation played out like there were no problems at all.. The soldiers in the apache acted as if they were 100% certain of what they were doing.

Everyone else was going off of their judgement calls based on what they were witnessing on the scene. The sad part is, this kind of thing probably happens all the time. The military doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to disclosing information to the public. There are many examples of Generals and other commanding officers saying one thing and then changing their stories after being either disproven or just flatout publicly caught in their lie.

Of coarse they're going to cover this stuff up. They want to keep their jobs! We used to have a saying in the military... "**** rolls downhill". But when it comes to people getting court-martialed and dishonorably discharged, it's the other way around! IMO, no commander in his/her right mind is going to be 100% honest as long as information and evidence can be concealed and witheld from public scrutiny. In this case, the truth was leaked somehow. Otherwise, this event would have been swept under the rug with all the other dirty secrets we don't know about and we would've never known. And all because commanding officers were blatantly lying to the American people about what really happened here.

Everyone knows war is ugly.. But I worked in munitions in the U.S. Air Force for 6 years. This is one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen. Mostly because there's no telling how often this happens on the battlefield. How many soldiers have no problems with killing kids if necessary to complete what they see as a combat sortie/mission in enemy territory? How can there be any certainty over who is an insurgent and who isn't? How do you decipher what you're seeing so nonchalantly when it could easily be the difference between innocent people living or dying? Alot of tough questions..

We're always told that war is necessary to protect freedom and defend our country against enemies both foreign and domestic. But how are we defending freedom when we travel half the world away and kill innocent civilians without a second thought? These guys knew the children were completely innocent too and they were laughing about it! I'm left like alot of you are.. dumbfounded.

-ChriS

Yes sir i could see that Saeed had a camera strap over his shoulder. If I can see it, then I'm sure that they could too. I have pretty good vision.
In the heat of war? They weren't on the ground fighting.... they were circling up in the air, chomping at the bit to shoot down some guys in the street.

I'm not going to argue this, as it is very very clear to me in the audio ... that they just wanted to shoot down these people for the # of it. They weren't being shot at. They weren't under any danger. There's no excuse for bad judgment in this particular case.

If they were on the ground, in the middle of a fire fight I can see where the mistakes could be made.

reply to post by srsen


In all honesty this really isn't news. We all know it happens. I just hope that it wakes up a few more people, and scares the Govt. into admitting it when they # up in the future. It won't, but it's something and I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Also, I don't think anyone should get to call themselves crazy horse as a nickname, especially those who have no honor. I'm done.

Woo Hoo..

The Wikileaks Video, Made it to our TV on Channel 10 National News Service, here in Australia.

It was a Fellow Australian that actually Hacked and Decoded that video.

The The News Anchor stated that there was no word from the Pentagon yet regarding the Leaked Video..

They showed all the Key Parts of the Video and even the Narrative from the Pilot and Gunner..

Ok, so it's getting AirPlay here in Australia. I hope it makes every other news service in the World.. The more people that see this Video, the better.

I hope the American Government starts sweating over this. I hope the American Military are Ashamed of themselves.

reply to post by Asherah


Well I'd be pretty damn scared if I were sitting in a helicopter and I thought I saw a guy with an RPG. Guess you have some big ones my friend. I'm not going to argue that the whole Van part of the tape seemed to just scream war crime, but I can see why they engaged initially. War sucks all around, not denying that just don't think armchair commandos have a good grasp on this sort of thing.

Originally posted by Asherah
Also, I don't think anyone should get to call themselves crazy horse as a nickname, especially those who have no honor. I'm done.

its a callsign not a nickname............. When you are out on patrols you all get callsigns My squadron were called Lion1, Lion2 etc

Sometimes it depends on what your squadron or company mascot is.

Ours was a Griffin and people that worked on our base were eagle1 or Talon1 etc and off base was lion.

WOW it's up on CNN front page!!! The video is up there..

I can't believe CNN posted it. I'm not quite sure what to make of the "story" they are writing about it.

WOW, I'm just shocked CNN posted it.

(1:45am MST) is when I found it front-page of CNN, just for the record.

reply to post by Asherah


And I don't think mortals should nickname themselves after gods. Who really cares though, the nickname isn't important. Lying about war crimes however, well that sure is. Refusal to release this under the FOIA is ridiculous.

You can hear the bloodlust in the gunners voice, "all you gotta do is pick up a weapon", "lemme engage", "c'mon let us shoot" etc. But to me what stands out even more is the one guy reporting that the van is coming to pick up bodies and weapons. The van isn't even stopped yet and these guys are already setting up their next kill by stating they are picking up weapons. It sounds like they wanted to kill those people period. And only reported what they knew would get them an order to engage.
It's disgusting what is being done in our name over there. And even more disgusting that so many of our countrymen will support these actions by waving a flag, puff up their chest and go into some chickensh** ramble about freedom, honor, and integrity. Like it's somehow patriotic to indiscriminately kill any man woman or child we see fit over there. After all they came into their neighborho....I mean battlezone right? And they are such a threat to our way of life here. If we don't kill them there, we're most certainly going to have to face them again and shoot it out on the shores on Daytona Beach when they start the invasion here.

Mission Accomplished!!!! Ooooorah

reply to post by Chillidog1


Well as stated, the people were out of frame when it was said they were picking up weapons. How do you know they were not? I think some of that bloodlust may have been the gunner hoping he could take out a perceived threat before the ground forces got to him in order to keep them safe. Again, I am most assuredly sickened by the OP/G shooting up the van, but it is getting a little old reading these breathless replies that do nothing to forward the discussion.

[edit on 6-4-2010 by Raustin]