40 to 45 degrees it flips

originally posted by: rickymouse
Even building high cities are geomagnetic contributors like tearing down mountains for the ores are.

Does the proximity of a big city change the direction of a magnetic compass' needle?

originally posted by: tnxoxodka
Regarding the original post:
that 40-45° is some critical point is just a made up number. I haven't seen anyone give a physically-plausible explanation as to why that is some critical point. At some point between pointing north and south, it might have to point to all the degrees between +90° and -90°. Alarmism about the numerological / mystical properties of 45° needs a better explanation.

From what I understand of it (without having watched the video), those 45º are not related to the geographic North pole but to something else, as the video itself points to a location of around 80º North.

I think they may referring to a 40º change to some arbitrary previous position, which is, obviously, irrelevant.

The numbers shown are not arbitrary but milestones so to speak.

A full pole shift is 180 degrees. That puts the North pole at the present South Pole. However, anything beyond 90 degrees is the point where you have changed hemispheres, Northern for Southern and vice versa. So the actual pole shift occurs at 90 degrees, a full pole shift at 180 degrees. As such, anything past the half way point, 45 degrees, is considered a major event and has equal odds to either track back to normal or continue on to an actual pole shift.

A pole shift is a bad thing, but its not as though Earths tectonic plates are thrown all over the place causing oceans to wash over major land masses like when Pangea broke apart. The biggest threat I can envision at this point is the disruption to the power grids. Anything based on magnetic North will have issues as there will likely be multiple 'fake' Norths until the whole magnetic field sorts itself out and decides where the new North will be.

The last known pole shift was 780,000 years ago, which puts us well overdue. On average, pole shifts occur every 450,000 years, historically speaking. Earth has survived every single one of them and will survive the next one as well. The people, well that may be a different story. But the Earth will be just fine and sort itself out nicely.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
A full pole shift is 180 degrees. That puts the North pole at the present South Pole. However, anything beyond 90 degrees is the point where you have changed hemispheres, Northern for Southern and vice versa. So the actual pole shift occurs at 90 degrees, a full pole shift at 180 degrees. As such, anything past the half way point, 45 degrees, is considered a major event and has equal odds to either track back to normal or continue on to an actual pole shift.

The magnetic North pole is at 81º North, only 9º from a perfect alignment between the geographic and the magnetic poles.

The 40º or 45º he mentions cannot be related to the geographic pole but to some arbitrary position.

a reply to: ArMaP

I believe it's just the 45deg longitude line he's talking about.
I'm guessing that figure was decided while experimenting with magnets, by finding how far they could rotate them before full reversal.
Who knows

Hang on a minute! The scientists and specialists told us a couple of days ago that we would be suffering mass disasters because the Sun was blasting a very dangerous "something" at us. Well we've just survived that.

Now the poles, would anyone care to look at the description/action of a thing called PRECESION. I'll go away now.

originally posted by: anonentity
Well it looks like we are at the forty-degree mark, and the tracking has sped up. According to past cooled lava data, it either flips or tracks back.

What exactly do you mean with "it" ? What is being tracked? What is going to "flip" or "track back"?

And what would be the consequences if "it" "flips" or doesn't?

There is a lot of completely unqualified and sometimes extremely stupid fearmongering out there, especially on Youtube. Almost all Youtube channels with more than 500k subscribers are nothing else than making money and their own motivation is to stay in business - truth, integrity, honesty doesn't matter to most of those channels (few exceptions always exist, but for the majority it is just about money). They sell you what you want to hear - and that's it.

A good example is the Dzhanibekov effect or Tennis racket effect (en.wikipedia.org...). Veritasum has a good, intuitive video about it: www.youtube.com...

Some certain people with relatively large YouTube channels blind their followers by tossing this theorem around as "proof" that the earth can and will completely tilt over within a very short amount of time (hours, days) with catastrophic effects. However, that is all fake. The theorem clearly states that only 1 of the 3 possible axis of rotations can ever tilt over, the other two are completely stable ad infinity. Since earth is rotating around one of the stable axis (and not the potentially instable axis), Earth cannot possibly tilt and topple over. And that is just one example out of gazillions where you get simply lied for profit. Same as almost everywhere else too.

I thought I read somewhere that rather than a flip its more likely to be a change in tilt on the axis.

Also remember reading a decade or so back when I still lived in oklahoma on local news they were talking about tornado ally sliding to the east, which I always wondered if that was a precursor.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
...The last known pole shift was 780,000 years ago, which puts us well overdue. On average, pole shifts occur every 450,000 years, historically speaking...

While I agree with the rest of your post, this piece stands out as incorrect. To see if we are statistically speaking "overdue", you cannot simply take the average. You also need to know the variance.

Example 1: Take a list of numbers, let's say ... 4,5,6,4,5,6,4,5,6 (average 5), then it is reasonable to say that seeing a 3 or 7 (2 below or above the average) is a bit unusual. T
Example 2: Take another list of numbers (0, 10, 5, 2, 8, 5, 1, 9, 5) with the same average of 5. In that case, seeing a 3 or 7 is nothing unusual at all even though those numbers are 2 below or above the average - same as in the first example.

As you can see, you can't just say "this is the average" & "we are quite far from the average, therefore that is unusual". For the latter part, you need to know the variance of the series (i.e. how far away are the numbers usually from the average).

a reply to: ArMaP

My well does, plus some natural deposits in the earth like around Baraga Michigan. Also the area behind my house makes the compass spin in circles sometimes because there is an underground river there feeding some springs.

It would be hard to tell if a city bends the magnetic compass from working because all the buildings have lots of steel in them and they cause a compass to point towards them sometimes, distorting the magnetic pull of the earth. But from I read in some geology articles, high buildings do alter ground currents and influence weather patterns because of their geomagnetic properties...but the articles never mentioned if a compass would point towards them.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: ArMaP

I believe it's just the 45deg longitude line he's talking about.

Then we are still a long way from it, the video shows it, it's at slightly more than 81º now.

a reply to: ArMaP

Since it is twenty-five percent weaker than it was a century ago, then something must be happening. It is now forty degrees from the previous stable spot from where it started wandering a century or so ago and speeding up in whatever direction it decides to take, it is no longer a stable system. Who knows what might happen or is happening, Thousands of field lines converge and head vertically into the earth at the place we call the north and south magnetic poles. This focus is the heading we are discussing. The weakening lets more cosmic rays into the atmosphere, this causes cloud seeding and more rain, less sunlight hitting the ground, it has to have an effect, the guy from the observatory maintains that it should cause heart arrhythmias and skin cancers. It's all conjecture for opinionated discussion like everything else. The weather is acting strange at the time the magnetic poles are moving, are they connected? everything is connected.

originally posted by: anonentity
It is now forty degrees from the previous stable spot from where it started wandering a century or so ago and speeding up in whatever direction it decides to take, it is no longer a stable system.

40º from the previous stable spot (why was that chosen as a "stable spot"?) is, as I said, an arbitrary choice, the fact (?) that it was at a previous stable spot doesn't mean that spot was the axis of rotation of the magnetic field and that a 40º difference means it's close to a flip of the poles.

Thousands of field lines converge and head vertically into the earth at the place we call the north and south magnetic poles. This focus is the heading we are discussing.

That focus is, now, approximately 9º from the geographic pole, which also represents the axis of rotation of the Earth ,and we know that the magnetic axis moves around the geographic axis.

The weakening lets more cosmic rays into the atmosphere, this causes cloud seeding and more rain, less sunlight hitting the ground, it has to have an effect, the guy from the observatory maintains that it should cause heart arrhythmias and skin cancers.

How do we know that a change in the magnetic field causes "cloud seeding and more rain"? And what does "cloud seeding" mean in this context?
More radiation would most likely result in more skin cancers, but why heart arrhythmias?

It's all conjecture for opinionated discussion like everything else. The weather is acting strange at the time the magnetic poles are moving, are they connected? everything is connected.

Yes, most things are connected, but not strongly connected.
As far as I know there are no known connections between the magnetic field and the weather.

a reply to: Torlin

Pole shifts can be measured, and have been, dating back as far as we can. The average time between pole shifts is 450,000 years. Actually, I thought it was closer to 300,000. I admit I didn't read into it far enough to identify the min and max variance. I just quoted the stated average.

This video may provide some insights as to the magnetic poles and flipping.


Part two is good too. Lots of diagrams for you.

a reply to: ArMaP

The more gamma rays that impact the lower atmosphere,act as a spot where water builds up the droplets for rain, if the magnetic shield is strong they are repelled before they hit the moisture-laden areas, that's as I understand it. Rain needs something to form around.

originally posted by: Torlin

originally posted by: anonentity
Well it looks like we are at the forty-degree mark, and the tracking has sped up. According to past cooled lava data, it either flips or tracks back.

What exactly do you mean with "it" ? What is being tracked? What is going to "flip" or "track back"?

And what would be the consequences if "it" "flips" or doesn't?

There is a lot of completely unqualified and sometimes extremely stupid fearmongering out there, especially on Youtube. Almost all Youtube channels with more than 500k subscribers are nothing else than making money and their own motivation is to stay in business - truth, integrity, honesty doesn't matter to most of those channels (few exceptions always exist, but for the majority it is just about money). They sell you what you want to hear - and that's it.

A good example is the Dzhanibekov effect or Tennis racket effect (en.wikipedia.org...). Veritasum has a good, intuitive video about it: www.youtube.com...

Some certain people with relatively large YouTube channels blind their followers by tossing this theorem around as "proof" that the earth can and will completely tilt over within a very short amount of time (hours, days) with catastrophic effects. However, that is all fake. The theorem clearly states that only 1 of the 3 possible axis of rotations can ever tilt over, the other two are completely stable ad infinity. Since earth is rotating around one of the stable axis (and not the potentially instable axis), Earth cannot possibly tilt and topple over. And that is just one example out of gazillions where you get simply lied for profit. Same as almost everywhere else too.

Thank you. An excellent response; thoughtful and well presented.

And yes, you are very right about YouTube channels and the chase for money.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: ArMaP

The more gamma rays that impact the lower atmosphere,act as a spot where water builds up the droplets for rain, if the magnetic shield is strong they are repelled before they hit the moisture-laden areas, that's as I understand it. Rain needs something to form around.

Gamma rays are energy, not particles.

Rain forms around particles in the air (such as the salt particles at seaside or dust from automobile tires, or ... well, dust is everywhere. It does not form around electromagnetic energy. Wikipedia on gamma rays

originally posted by: DaRAGE
This video may provide some insights as to the magnetic poles and flipping.

Not if you know anything about geology or paleontology or the history of the Earth.

...things the presenter rather clearly does not know about.

a reply to: Byrd

Well gamma radiation seems to have something to do with it. www.davidpublisher.com...