Extremist religion is at root of 21st-century wars, says Tony Blair

flammadraco

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by flammadraco

 

What about the 1st, 2nd,........ 20th century wars?

I could have added further examples, but as my OP stated "These are a few examples of the conflicts". Could go back as far as the Egyptians against the Jews, or the Spanish against the Aztecs, the Romans against Christianity. The list could continue for a long time. I just wanted to add the gist of my point.  

I know, I wasn't directing that at you... it was sarcastically directed at Mr. Blair... one of the largest, hypocritical warmongers on planet Earth.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Apologies, never knew Mr Blair was an ATS member

reply to post by WilsonWilson

Originally posted by WilsonWison
But it's not just religion, look at political ideologies, such as communism. Ruling powers use whatever is handy. I do agree with a previous poster most mainstream religions are corrupt.

Yeah sure, wars aren’t just caused by religion, but by those other factors, I mentioned in my previous post. But they can be caused by Religion alone…

But, I was responding to your reply, to 3NL1GHT3N3D1, in regards to Romans 13, and about the early Christian persecutions, being mainly fuelled by Religion. That was the original context/backdrop of my first reply to you…

Although, I think your second and third responses, were just looking at in a general, wider, outside context. Which is fine, but that wasn’t what my first and second posts, were addressing…


- JC

Religion is used as a political tool to JUSTIFY war...

Religion itself cannot cause war. That's all on us - humanity.

Religion is simply a control placed on society - to tighten or loosen - like a noose on the human population as a whole. Just as race, gender, and any other dichotomy that has been constructed to separate ourselves from each other serve as a division, so that we stand independent and alone, rather than united and together as an entire race of one people on this planet.

It's how the few stay in control, and the masses remain confused and fumbling, chasing it's tail in a circle. It's a Mad World.

CdT

reply to post by 1Providence1


Just because religion is used as an excuse for war does not make it so!
Things are rarely what they seem to be!

Few wars have been started over true religious reasons, they start because the "elite" wish to grow their power. It's hard to convince the masses to go fight and die for your profit, so you have to come up with some type of excuse, be it religious reasons, false flag attacks etc. Also it would be quite a misnomer to believe that the rulers actually buy into the religious propaganda they place upon their subjects, it's a tool they use, not something they believe in.

I agree with the last few posts but even if religion was used as the tool to get the sheeple to agree to a war for another reason shows how the TPTB can utilise ones believe system to have the sheeple fight in the name of god.

Would these last few comments prove that religion has been engineered to control the masses?

I think the majority of the people on this planet just want to go about their daily lives and get along, you see it everyday, we are diverse nation, I don't see a huge amount of people out there waring with one another, what happens is some individuals whether it is governments or a religious leaders or secular, or political, work people up and pit them against one another creating division.

but then again we can be very tribal.

bump

And think about this, do we at times inadvertently become a tool?

Even at the smallest level are we influencing fear and hatred in others buy certain topics we start?

This is something Cheney or George Bush would say. If Blair wants to convince people to agree he needs to use a better argument because this one is exhausted. Note this is the same argument Christopher Hitchens used, even though Hitchens was an atheist. So keep note someone can think this and not be a christian.

I think our actions embolden the extremist religions and I also think nationalism across the world prevents us from working together. Too many nations all over the world meddle in the affairs of others with self-interest in mind. Proxy wars are common. This has been going on for thousands of years.

The communist/capitalist divide is a big flaming turd. One might rename it the west versus east underground war. Either way, it's not healthy.

I guess war is going to happen so long as we have self-interest and division. These things seem fundamental, so I can't see how war will end.

I don't want to come off as an anti-war liberal bleeding heart Bush/Blair hater. Honestly, many of the people who criticize Bush or Blair, if put in their position, would probably act along similar lines. I think when one is in a position of leadership, they act more conservatively and even small dangers become more prominent as you're constantly reminded of the shortcomings of your nation. Your nation expects you to lead and to act against dangers, so that's what you do.

Please note being a supporter of one or another war is not uniquely republican. Many democrats and independents have worn the uniform and fought in war.

Here's an example of a democrat who had this to say about Saddam:

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I'm saying that if there were no religions these wars probably never would have happened.

I don't think so lets go back further in time

culture-of-peace.info...

List of battles before 301
en.wikipedia.org...

List of battles by casualties, just take a look at some of these numbers.

en.wikipedia.org...
Battle of Changping -Qin's wars of unification -700,000 dead -260 BC

This is one battle, had nothing to do with Christianity,

Anyway, I invite you to look through this ancient history, it is interesting .

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Thanks for the links you provided, the last link to all the battles does show rather a lot of conflicts involving religion though.

reply to post by flammadraco


I use to quote from the opening lines of Sun Tzu's 'The Art of War' whenever religion shows up as a subject in relation to war. The art of war, according to Sun Tzu, is governed by five constant factors. First and foremost among them is what he refers to as 'The Moral Law':

"The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger"

'The Moral Law' is another name for Religion, and the primary objective of any religion I know of, is to work as a nitro-button on the soldiers, and as a multi-tool to quelle any inner conflict.

In 1514 Luther began to serve as a priest for Wittenburg's Castle Church, and people flocked to hear God's Word preached like never before. During this time Luther learned of the Catholic Church's unbiblical practice of selling indulgences. The Pope, according to his discretion from the "treasury of merits from the saints," sold religious merits in exchange for building funds. Those who purchased these indulgence documents were promised a reduced punishment for their sins, for the sins of departed loved ones, and in some cases, total forgiveness from all sin. Luther publicly objected to this dishonest practice and abuse of church power.
On October 31, 1517 Luther nailed his famous 95-Thesis to the University's bulletin board—the Castle Church door, formally challenging church leaders on the practice of selling indulgences and outlining the biblical doctrine of justification by grace alone. This act of nailing his Thesis to the church door has become a defining moment in Christian history, symbolic of the birth of the Protestant Reformation.

Luther's vocal criticisms of the church were seen as a threat to papal authority, and he was warned by the Cardinals of Rome to recant his position. But Luther refused to change his stand unless someone could point him to scriptural evidence for any other attitude.

Martin Luther's Excommunication and Diet of Worms
In January of 1521, Luther was officially excommunicated by the Pope.

christianity.about.com...
this led to " relgious wars" re who was going to mow the sheeple
looks like MONEY is the root of all evil
religion is its tool....
got doubts?


JESUS CHRIST = RICH JEST US
he went after the bankers in the temple because he is just controlled opposition

oh and when ONE QUARTER of the people on the most war making country on the planet don't know the earth goes around the sun...
Id say forget money , forget religion:
STUPIDITY is the biggest cause of war

Wow. All those numbers. What's your point? What are you trying to communicate? that war is bad, or that faith is bad? i get the whole "religion bad, me good" vibe your putting out, but what does Tony Blair or palestine have to do with it? war happens, religion happens, so what? that the two would have the opportunity at some point to intersect means what? Tony Blair is just stating the obvious. Apparently he was giving a speech or something. So what? War is bad. Religion is irrelavent. People that are killing each other because of they're faith are doing only one thing. Improving the gene pool. One more thing. When people are killing each other because of they're religious beliefs, you can't classify that as war. It's just bad manners. Why worry about it, animals make war on each other all the time. why should we angry monkeys be different ?

blair ( who is a principle cause of war himself...him and his banker buddies ) is making war ON religion

reply to post by flammadraco


Humans are creative if religion wasn't there I bet you 100 bucks they would find another reason. Some lead others follow. Some lie others believe.

Come on it is ignorant to peg this on religion. You think without religion people will get along? I don't think so. Human nature is just like that: lazy, prideful, envious, lustful, wrathful, gluttonous and greedy. I think those will still exist even if you remove religion.

Again we are not attacking the root cause of the problem. Blair is a tool.

reply to post by flammadraco


All those who fight wars and claim to be religious are clearly not listening to their hearts or that what God commanded them to do.

Free will makes us responsible and not God.

It's not just extremist religion, it is also Mainstream religion that is to blame.

If the religious leaders and the institutions they represent had taught their followers that war was wrong, murder was wrong, and that violence against their fellow man were wrong, things might have been different. Sadly though, they became willing tools of governments by promoting the ideas of “just” wars, liberation ideology, and that “paying back Caesar’s things to Caesar” meant a God-given duty to sacrifice your life for your country. They willingly did all of this for the sake of their own political gain, influence, power and wealth. They stand condemned and the blood on their hands will never be washed clean.