Extremist religion is at root of 21st-century wars, says Tony Blair

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Christianity was just a banner the leaders could wave to get peasants to go to war for them so that they could increase their power. This is how it works with all forms of government throughout history.

Now you're getting on topic! This is exactly why it was legalized, to gain more control and power, the same with all religion. Religion is not legalized or made to spread the truth, it is legalized or made to spread ignorance. They use the truth to spread their lies, lies on top of a foundation of truth. Wolfs in sheeps clothing.

Ummmmm . . . .

They use the truth to spread their lies, lies on top of a foundation of truth.

What is this supposed to mean?

If the government was just playing up people's religious fears then religion was not the cause. It would be those playing up people's fears and their motivations for doing so.

Are you trying to say that if there wasn't religion then people couldn't have their religious fears manipulated?

Too bad that doesn't work as even people who aren't religious have their fears played upon. Khmer Rouge for example.

You are just too blinded by your hatred of religion to see that.

-FBB

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


It means that governments manipulate the truth and sell their lies with it, kind of how Christianity keeps Jesus' words of truth but manipulate his message with Paul's epistles and base their theology on said epistles. Read Romans 13 and tell me the governemnt had nothing to benefit from Paul's writings. That's how governments get a foothold in a spiritual movement, they infiltrate it and change the true message behind it.

I'm saying that if there were no religions these wars probably never would have happened. And no, this is only my OPINION and I'm not stating it as fact, thought I'd put that out there before you try to pull it out of the bag.

Let's put it this way, religion is the root, the government is the gardener giving water to the root. Religion is the root of the problem because it is the reason these wars were fought. If the government didn't use religion as the reason they would have found another reason, but they did use religion.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


I will always cherish the initial misconceptions I had about you

reply to post by flammadraco


I was taught at university that they used peoples faith to get them to go, but it was actually political. Too many landless second sons running around causing trouble.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Religion isn't the root then is it? Is they would use any excuse the government is the root.

reply to post by flammadraco

I'm not blaming Christianity, I'm blaming all religions and despite your assertions that the Crusades were politically motivated, the other side was not and thus religion was the reason for this war.

I think you've completely missed the point I was making.

You sought to apportion blame for The Crusades solely on 'The Vatican and European Royalty' - that is incorrect.
Elements within the Muslim world were equally to blame.

And I didn't say 'the Crusades were politically motivated' I said there were political considerations as well.
Its impossible to differentiate between religion and politics at the time, each had a massive bearing and influence on the other.
And it can be said of both sides.

I know this thread isn't solely about The Crusades so I will resist the temptation to give a detailed account of the ALL the considerations and issues that led to The First Crusade, if you wish to discuss that subject in more detail then please start a thread on it and I'll gladly contribute.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


You may be right, but that doesn't take away the fact that religion is the main avenue that governments use to coerce people into either fighting in a war or being complacent about a war happening.

We see how terrorists have somehow become synonymous with Muslims since 9/11, they did that in order to make our country, which is by and large Christian, complacent and even willing to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is the point of the thread, religion is used to incite wars and has been used for that purpose throughout history.

If religion is such a useful tool for those in power, what makes you think they didn't create them for that exact purpose?

reply to post by WilsonWilson

Originally posted by WilsonWison
Religion isn't the root then is it? Is they would use any excuse the government is the root.

Actually, in the example 3NL1GHT3N3D1 was talking about, I believe religion was the root cause.

The Roman government were killing the early Christians because (among other things), they were refusing to sacrifice animals, to their Gods. Which is essentially one religion, killing another, just because of their differing beliefs.

And even after Christianity was legalized, they still went around killing other faiths, and different Christian faiths, just because they refused to accept their version of it! Again, religiously motivated violence and murders…sanctioned by the Roman Government…

Religion and Government went hand in hand. The government may have carried out the murders/massacres etc… but it was Religion, which was the underlining root cause behind it.



- JC

fenian8
A bit rich coming from tony blair. Although to be honest he should be an expert on religious warfare after the sectarian violence which plagues Iraq today largely due to his illegal invasion with his old master george w bush. Don`t need a lying, dishonest war criminal stating the bleeding obvious.

Ah, the voice of reason, so refreshing...thank you!

Good discussion, I might add peeps do overlook the key word, which is not
actually "religion" but it is the word "extremist".

Governments always have, and always will use religion, and have no intention
of ridding the world of it, nor stopping the wars.

What this is, a buzz word for headlines. Extremist.
Then, ask yourself what this is about, here is a clue it is not about ridding the world
from religion....quite the contrary.

reply to post by Joecroft


I don't agree to me religion is the tool used by ruling powers to control people and consolidate power. Human greed is normally the root of war.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


I agree, greed is the root cause but religion is what stems from the root and wars are what branch off of the stem.

It's obvious to me that religion is created by governments to both control people and get them to agree to genocide. Any mainstream religion is corrupt to the core, that's how this world works, anything as influential as religion cannot be considered the truth, no matter what form it comes in.

reply to post by WilsonWilson

Originally posted by WilsonWison
I don't agree to me religion is the tool used by ruling powers to control people and consolidate power. Human greed is normally the root of war.

But the tool i.e. Religion, was that, which was fuelling those persecutions. So I would say you essentially agree with me, in a round about way.

Without that religious controlling element in place, they wouldn’t be able to consolidate their power…which still equates to religion, being the wider problem…IMO

Also, you don’t sanction the murder, and persecutions of other faiths, for the motives of greed. So again, it all comes back to religion, being the predominant driving force behind it

As for your last comment, sure; money/greed, power, religion and resources, have tended to be the main causes, of most wars. But in the example where talking about, I believe religion, was the main root cause, behind it.

- JC

I find it difficult that Tony Blair should say this when his Selfie photograph represents my image of Blair.

reply to post by paraphi


OK! thats your opinion. I have mine which i`ve made clear.

reply to post by Joecroft


But it's not just religion, look at political ideologies, such as communism. Ruling powers use whatever is handy. I do agree with a previous poster most mainstream religions are corrupt.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


Communism was against religion so in a sense the conflict with Stalin had some religious aspect to it.

reply to post by flammadraco


Yes but the topic was about whether religion was the root, and I don't think it is,people want things, power money posterity, and they use tools to get it. Religion being one of them.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


And my opinion is that religion has been the issue for either starting conflict, escalating the conflict on many occasions. Even with World War Two religion was entwined with the conflict. As you quite rightly say, not every conflict is about religion but I would go as far to say most are.

reply to post by flammadraco


What about the 1st, 2nd,........ 20th century wars?

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by flammadraco

 

What about the 1st, 2nd,........ 20th century wars?

I could have added further examples, but as my OP stated "These are a few examples of the conflicts". Could go back as far as the Egyptians against the Jews, or the Spanish against the Aztecs, the Romans against Christianity. The list could continue for a long time. I just wanted to add the gist of my point.