Extremist religion is at root of 21st-century wars, says Tony Blair

I used this as an answer to a thread but thought it deserved its own thread so the other thread was not derailed!

Extremist religion is at root of 21st-century wars, says Tony Blair
www.theguardian.com...

Below are SOME of the wars between religions since 1095;

THIRTY YEAR WAR
Between – Protestants and Catholics between 1618 & 1648, Location the Roman Empire – Number of Dead highest estimate 11,500,000

FRENCH WARS OF RELGION
Between – Protestants and Catholics between 1562 & 1598, Location France
Number of Dead, highest estimate 4,000,000

NIGERIAN WAR
Between Islam and Christianity between 1967 & 1970, Location Nigeria
Number of Dead, highest estimate 3,000,000

SECOND SUDANESE CIVIL WAR
Between Islam and Christianity between 1983 & 2005, Location Sudan
Number of Dead, highest estimate 2,000,000

CRUSADES
Between Islam & Christianity between 1095 & 1291, Location, Holy Land & Europe
Number of Dead, highest estimate 3,000,000

LEBANESE CIVIL WAR
Between Sunni, Shiite and Christian, between 1975 and 1990, Location Lebanon
Number of Dead, highest estimate 250,000

These are just a few examples with the total number of deaths from just these examples totalling 23,750,000 deaths caused by religions.

I'm sure the list could go on and millions more innocent lives lost because of religion. I believe that this is enough evidence to prove that state and religion should be separate and for Secularism Governments to be the way forward in today's world.

reply to post by flammadraco


Ah yes, the commitment of many people against many, divided for this that or the other reason. I would be lying if religion wasn't used as a major reason for many of the past several thousands of years of animosity and war.

Oh when will people just snap out of it and realize we all have our individual beliefs, some common, but never all the same, thus making us cooperative individuals in a much larger, hopefully harmonious place.

reply to post by 1Providence1


I agree with you. To many religious believe systems in the World now and for any Government to choose one over another as it would discriminate against the other religious believes.

We dont need religion any more. Its got no place in modern society in my opinion.

It used to be a good tool to keep the peace when people were scared of the god(s) but we have other ways to control our inner beast and we need to realize that, if you are religious, fine, i got no problem with that but unfortunately it is really messing with our new methods. Its actually kind of ironic in a sad way.

Add to that...

Which wasn't really a war but rather an outright massacre by the Spanish and Church against the native peoples of the New World.

Interesting topic.

A bit rich coming from tony blair. Although to be honest he should be an expert on religious warfare after the sectarian violence which plagues Iraq today largely due to his illegal invasion with his old master george w bush. Don`t need a lying, dishonest war criminal stating the bleeding obvious.

As your OP shows religion has always been one of the major causes of war and i really don`t see things changing any time soon. I think this hypocrite is just making sound bites, trying to look half educated and trying to make us forget the days he was prime minister, what with the Chilcot Report out this summer.

Hes trying to distance himself from the tony blair who ran the New Labour Party, which took us into the illegal war against Iraq because of non exsistent WMD.

Exrtemist religion always has and always will continue to cause wars, however, false, dishonest people who used to be in power, such as himself with his spin doctored politics, massive disdain and contempt of the views of the public and narcissistic personality can cause just as many wars. Can`t believe people even care about any of his views to be honest. Hes not known to be a man who could think for himself ie Alistair Campbell.

Oh yeah did i mention i can`t stand the man

reply to post by flammadraco


Yes, the extremist religion of GW Bush, believing that he was both elected and knighted by God to ride forth and subdue a nation which had nothing to do with anything he was talking about. His invasion of Iraq is still the biggest 21st century war crime yet unpunished, and it came straight from either an adherence to one religion or its unkissing cousin- a misguided sense of importance.

reply to post by fenian8


Got to say I agree with everything you said, apart from this;

..... Although to be honest he should be an expert on religious warfare after the sectarian violence which plagues Iraq today largely due to his illegal invasion with his old master george w bush.

The illegal invasion wasn't the cause of the sectarian violence, the hatred and differences between the Sunni and Shia communities in Iraq has existed for years. The invasion and the subsequent atrocious mis-management of the situation created the environment for this hatred to literally explode.

Don`t need a lying, dishonest war criminal stating the bleeding obvious.

Yes, and its perhaps somewhat ironic that both Blair and Bush themselves are viewed as overtly religious by many.
Were their actions driven at least in part by their own personal religious beliefs?

Exrtemist religion always has and always will continue to cause wars, however, false, dishonest people who used to be in power, such as himself with his spin doctored politics, massive disdain and contempt of the views of the public and narcissistic personality can cause just as many wars.

In many cases they are one and the same.

Oh yeah did i mention i can`t stand the man

You and me both Brother.

reply to post by fenian8


I think it could be changed pretty quick if it wasn't such a means of:

(a) ethnic cleansing, testing weapons and generally reducing populations or causing chaos in order to grab whatever one wants, and earn money from reconstruction after the destruction of the infrastructure. Naturally today this means oil rich countries as they can pay for 'your good services'

(b) Earning millions of Dollars, Euros and Pounds for the bankers and arms dealers.

I think you need to forget about the umbrella of religion, because part of society claims it needs to be led around by the nose (by men wearning frocks, bizarre pink beards and other strikingly weird clothing to ensure they are identifiable). It lets them off the hook of thinking for themselves about issues and leaves the serious decisions to someone else - so in fact its self protection and cowardism if you think about what the 'God's will brigade' actually do in the name of pious belief and blind obedience.

But its actually the Priests who spew the war mongering oration, geared merely to get them more bums on seats and money coming in and the snobbery of 'old my God is better than yours'.

Its a job only someone with guts and discernment could tackle and that is to get rid of any religious pests within the Priests, Immans, Rabbis, Gurus, Monks or those who incite their congregations to warfare and hatred. Weed these ghastly gits out of society and put them in solitary confinement. These are the men who never, never put themselves in danger they merely wind up the ignorant and those who want to be told what to do in the name of someone else, so its not actually them who are responsible for the misery, rape and killings they as religious warriors carry out.

I thought Tony Blair was in bed with the Saudis and Israelis - good groups of people for him to model his speeches on. This is what I honestly think and I am not apologising for it.

I disagree actually, I think it was Governments that were the cause of most wars.

They planned the war itself, they make sure they have funding through whatever means, and they equip and train the soldiers.
Then they create elaborate fictions to convince the people to go take over someone else's lands violently.

Those "elaborate fictions" are based partly in normal truths, but twisted heavily.
So religion, ethnicity or race can be used as the carrot on the stick.
And sometimes it's just a resource grab.

Point is, almost all wars are started by very few but highly powerful individuals.
I know for sure I cannot declare a war, no one would listen to me.

muzzleflash
I disagree actually, I think it was Governments that were the cause of most wars.

They planned the war itself, they make sure they have funding through whatever means, and they equip and train the soldiers.
Then they create elaborate fictions to convince the people to go take over someone else's lands violently.

Those "elaborate fictions" are based partly in normal truths, but twisted heavily.
So religion, ethnicity or race can be used as the carrot on the stick.
And sometimes it's just a resource grab.

Point is, almost all wars are started by very few but highly powerful individuals.
I know for sure I cannot declare a war, no one would listen to me.

CRUSADES
Between Islam & Christianity between 1095 & 1291, Location, Holy Land & Europe
Number of Dead, highest estimate 3,000,000

Don't think that had anything to do with government. Think you'll find that's the Vatican and European Royalty to blame for this one.

reply to post by flammadraco


You have to wonder if religion was instituted into society for this very reason. If God is all knowing, wouldn't he have for seen how religion would have caused death and destruction? Why wouldn't he have made it crystal clear, there was one true religion and he would have carved it into stone. But than again, the 10 commandments were carved into stone and have never been found.

reply to post by flammadraco


Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people. Religion discourages such actions. He might want to count the innocent his army killed because he is stopping terrorism and extremists. Thousands of innocent man, woman and children dead for a few bad apples. We got Bin Laden after bombing two countries and killing I don't even know how many, for one dude. One dude!

You can't control extremism, if you do then we are no longer free. We always get punished because of a few, we let those few bad apples control us because we react to everything they do. I wait in the airport hours because of a few bad apples. I am guilty until I prove I am not. It is almost like they want this.

Blair go suck on a depleted uranium bullet.

flammadraco

CRUSADES
Between Islam & Christianity between 1095 & 1291, Location, Holy Land & Europe
Number of Dead, highest estimate 3,000,000

Don't think that had anything to do with government. Think you'll find that's the Vatican and European Royalty to blame for this one.

Whoa there partner.

Royalty = Government

How else do they get to be "Royal"?
What is the function of a Monarch?

Look I can call myself Royal all day long but it's silly unless the Nation gives me Castles and their taxes.

Also the Vatican was like a Government for Governments at that time period.

bitsforbytes
reply to post by flammadraco

 

Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people. Religion discourages such actions. He might want to count the innocent his army killed because he is stopping terrorism and extremists. Thousands of innocent man, woman and children dead for a few bad apples. We got Bin Laden after bombing two countries and killing I don't even know how many, for one dude. One dude!

You can't control extremism, if you do then we are no longer free. We always get punished because of a few, we let those few bad apples control us because we react to everything they do. I wait in the airport hours because of a few bad apples. I am guilty until I prove I am not. It is almost like they want this.

Blair go suck on a depleted uranium bullet.

But the wars between religions I have shown in the OP for the last thousand years have been about religion and whilst I agree with your comments, religion was used as the reason for fighting these wars. Look at the Crusades, that was religious war. I also agree you can't control extremism but that does not mean we have to be dictated to by these extremist from all religions.

muzzleflash

flammadraco

CRUSADES
Between Islam & Christianity between 1095 & 1291, Location, Holy Land & Europe
Number of Dead, highest estimate 3,000,000

Don't think that had anything to do with government. Think you'll find that's the Vatican and European Royalty to blame for this one.

Whoa there partner.

Royalty = Government

How else do they get to be "Royal"?
What is the function of a Monarch?

Look I can call myself Royal all day long but it's silly unless the Nation gives me Castles and their taxes.

Also the Vatican was like a Government for Governments at that time period.

And in both cases, used their religious beliefs as a reason to fight these wars.

Yeah, it`s true sectarianism was around looooong before bush and blair went into the country, but as the link in the OP says

"Predicting when religious differences may descend into outright violence is never easy," he said. "But it's just fallacious to claim that those who ordered and led the 2003 Iraq war lacked access to the necessary information about the complexities of that country's ethnic and religious divisions, or could have ever assumed that they could complete their intervention without rekindling religious bloodshed."

And now, only suicide bombings or mass murder with a figure of over 50 victims will even get a small mention in the MSM.

And i don`t know about you Freeborn but i find their religious beliefs somewhat dubious. I think it was just done so they could add good church going, God fearing folk to their resume. When in actual fact, just by their actions i would say they are pretty far from any form of Christianty i can think of. Tony Blair even converted from Anglican (which he was when he ordered the invasion of Iraq) to Catholisism. I think Ann Widdecombes comment in the link below pretty much says what i think of their religious beliefs.

news.bbc.co.uk...

And yes religious fanatics and politicians drunk on their power and fuelled by there ego are pretty much one and the same.

And Shiloh no need to apologise about any of your post, only one thing i personally would correct, tony blair gets in bed with anyone who massages that vile narcassistic persona of his. The more powerful they are the better. Only reason hes still in bed with Saudi and Isreal is because some bright sparks made him part of the Middle East peace convoy. Honestly.

reply to post by WeRpeons


God told us that we can be greedy, lustful, prideful, envious, lazy, wrathful and gluttonous. He told us not to charge interest on anything, which is to commit usury. He told us not to kill and respect each other. Where was God wrong? He made us free to decide to love or hate we have to decide. That is the whole point. If He wanted to make perfect beings that do as He wishes, He would of made robots.

Now people are trying to convince me God is wrong, that religion is the problem. Humans are the problem, those 7 problems with human nature is the problem. We embrace these problems in our society notice.

The root of all evil is the love of money.

We have had these words for more than 2000 years. MORE! We still don't see that they are valid. That they speak the truth. We have to wait till a scientific study tells us right? Or wait for Blair to let us in on the secret?

Human nature has its problems and we are not dealing with human nature we are trying to block it, suppress it, remove it. Trying to delete the freewill factor, just in case an extremist might come along. I find Blairs statement extremist.

bitsforbytes
reply to post by WeRpeons

 

God told us that we can be greedy, lustful, prideful, envious, lazy, wrathful and gluttonous. He told us not to charge interest on anything, which is to commit usury. He told us not to kill and respect each other. Where was God wrong? He made us free to decide to love or hate we have to decide. That is the whole point. If He wanted to make perfect beings that do as He wishes, He would of made robots.

Now people are trying to convince me God is wrong, that religion is the problem. Humans are the problem, those 7 problems with human nature is the problem. We embrace these problems in our society notice.

The root of all evil is the love of money.

We have had these words for more than 2000 years. MORE! We still don't see that they are valid. That they speak the truth. We have to wait till a scientific study tells us right? Or wait for Blair to let us in on the secret?

Human nature has its problems and we are not dealing with human nature we are trying to block it, suppress it, remove it. Trying to delete the freewill factor, just in case an extremist might come along. I find Blairs statement extremist.

No one is saying God is wrong. Man is wrong. Man has fought these wars in the name of their religion and what they perceived to be the word of God. Man has fought these wars because of their intolerance to other religious beliefs.

We have the three main religions in the west, Christianity, Islam and Judaism all believing in the same god but have fought wars against each other for their own beliefs. About time we stopped acting like children and believing we are any better than someone else because of our affiliation to what ever dogma we were taught as a religion.

So, all those Muslim extremists (for example) got their weapons and funding from where exactly Mr. Blair? RPG's AK47's and exposives just don't grow on trees, they have to be bought. They also wouldn't be a problem if western government hadn't overtly and covertly been arming and funding them for years, as they currently have been doing in Syria, and before that in Libya.
No, the root cause of 21st century wars Mr. Blair are people like you, meddling in other peoples affairs, working to destabilise entire nations for personal and political gain, as well as on the orders of the global financial elites who also profit hugely from the mess you create. Then you also work to label oppressed people, protesting against the treatment of the tin pot dictators you support, as terrorists and Al Qaida. At the very least, I hope this PoS suffers chronic piles, before someone decides he's a liability and offs him... hopefully slowly and painfully!

The religion scam has been used for years to justify the ongoing occupation of Palestine and the brutal Jewish treatment of the native Palestinians. The whole religion angle is a smokescreen, to cover the simple fact that these are people who are under military occupation, are still having their land and homes stolen, and being regularly beaten or murdered. I mean, who wouldn't fight back top protect their land, homes and family from military occupation?

Blair is just another Globalist mouthpiece with his snout in as many troughs as possible and cosying up to brutal leaders, purely for money and representation to legitimise their brutality. Hell, he even bailed on his own country before finishing his term so he could start his money making schemes.