Deciphering the Pagan Stones

a reply to: zardust

I wasn't saying you were taking liberty. That word in Hebrew is plain or oak. Considering the context there is more indication that it should have been translated plain or forest save in cases were it is clearly specific. At any rate extrapolating from these cases that Abram was an early druid is hard to do in my opinion.

But let me get over to your thread about this and read up. Maybe we can discuss it there.

I thought perhaps this symbology was similar?

a reply to: Wifibrains

It looks similar - raised hand, tiny person/baby with big person, holding a staff. Yep, looks good!

I'm pinning this here because it interests me, and I don't want to forget about it. I'll come back to it.

Fénius Farsaid (also Phoeniusa, Phenius, Féinius; Farsa, Farsaidh, many variant spellings) is a legendary king of Scythia who shows up in different versions of Irish folklore. He was the son of Boath, a son of Magog. According to some traditions, he invented the Ogham alphabet and the Gaelic language.

According to recensions M and A of the Lebor Gabála Érenn, Fénius and his son Nél journeyed to the Tower of Babel (in recension B, it is Rifath Scot son of Gomer instead). Nél, who was trained in many languages, married Scota, daughter of Pharaoh Cingris of Egypt, producing their son Goidel Glas.

In the Lebor Gabála Érenn (11th century), he is said to be one of the 72 chieftains who built Nimrod's Tower of Babel, but travelled to Scythia after the tower collapsed.

Woah, I just caught that. Wow.

"Nél, who was trained in many languages, married Scota, daughter of Pharaoh Cingris of Egypt, producing their son Goidel Glas.

Pharoah Cingris must be Cinge, father of Cruithne, father of the Pictish Kings, no?

a reply to: Logarock

I'm not saying Abraham was a Druid exactly, but that there was a common form of worship that was accepted by Abraham and his kin all the way through to the Babylonian Exile, or right before it. That form of worship is very different from the Levitical cult that we see in 2nd Temple Judaism. The early form of worship was identical to the pagans, and therefore the druids (in some ways at least). There is different flavors here and there, but they are all basically the same stories, which tell one Story IMO.

Also I'm pretty sure that Plain is wrong for the translation of Elown. The vast majority of translations have Oak or great tree. Its pretty much the KJV and its ilk that translate it as plain.

a reply to: zardust

Yes, I looked at one passage you indicated and even in the king James it says, when Abram saw the three men, that it translates the word "plain" and then he asks the men to rest themselves under the tree just a few sentences later.

a reply to: Logarock


This is the first time I have been gone all day to come and find that I was the last poster.

a reply to: Logarock

Oh no! Sorry Log, that must have felt horrible!
I got caught up reading about Cinge/Cingris and I wanted to write out a family tree to see where these people fit in. I know, I know, it's myth and legend, but I'm taking the grain of truth from in there and running with it.
I've got some real life work to catch up on, then I'm back asap!!

I came across this whilst checking out Cinge/Cingris:

CIR MHIN OIR - comb of chased gold. A sun symbol its
equivalent night-symbol being the cir gharbh airgiod, the
comb of rough silver. It was said that the god Lugh was
often seen among men carrying these combs in his hands.
Maol a’Cliobain gained powers of kingship when he
pilfered two such combs from the castle of a “giant.”
When the silver comb was misplaced the king’s carriage fell to
the ground as “a withered faggot,” and his kingship, and
virility, was lost.
Another Gaelic hero took similar combs and when he
combed the hair on the left side of his head it flaked off
silver instead of dandruff. Run through the hair of the other
side it produced flakes of gold. Other magic combs stolen
from the Fomorian sea-giants yielded clothing, arms, meat
and drink. Gaels pursued by the dark forces could throw a
comb or brush in their way to delay pursuit.
Combs were often found in the arsenal of witchcraft
and sometimes the baobh would comb the hair of an
unsupecting victim causing that person to fall into a deep
and troubled sleep. J.F. Campbell thinks that the magical
attributes of combs may relate to the fact that the bone
combs of primitive men produced spectacles of static electricity during the long winter nights.

There are sexual connotations in the use of combs. In
medieval times it was still understood what was meant
when the knight laid his head upon the knees of a “lady” and
she “dressed his hair.” There are numerous slate slabs in
Scotland which represent two-handed mirrors, combs and
shears. These are generally regarded as Pictish memorials
and indicate that these objects had significance beyond the obvious.

Was it not Ramcheck who thought the comb might have some sexual connotation? A sign of virility and general all round manliness, coupled with magic and the sun/moon. Creation, if you will.

rodneymackay.com

The Pharoah Cingris was Scota's father. Scota married Nel, son of the Scythian prince Fenius Farsaid, and had a son Goidel Glas - the creator of Gaelic and ancestor to the Gaels. Around the time of Moses, they leave Egypt and wander for 440 years, before settling in Spain.

The Pictish version has Cinge as the father of Cruithne, father of Cait, Ce, Circinn, Fib, Fidach, Fotla and Fortrui.

In both stories Cinge/Cingris is the grandfather. The 7 sons of Cruithne are thought to be the areas or Kingdoms of Scotland. Fib for Fife, Cait for Caithness etc. Fife is still a kingdom, strangely.

At the very least it is interesting that in both the Pictish Chronicles and the Lebor Gabala Erenn it would be recorded that this person was the grandfather. That both the Gaels and the Picts had the same ancestor.

Incidentally, you can visit Scota's grave if you like:

a reply to: beansidhe

I did suggest that yes, only I must confess as a 'stab in the dark'. Or perhaps something more deep rooted came through, some distant hairy perverted memory from my past life.

Where is Scota buried by the way? Interested.

a reply to: Ramcheck

Hmm, yes it must be your pervy Pict blood rising up. Strange though that you would think that. I'm a strong believer in 'clan memory' although I couldn't begin to explain it to anyone of a scientific ilk.

You'll find Scota in Co. Kerry:

The walk to Queen Scotia’s Grave near Tralee is a nice and easy 0.5 hour (1.5 km) walking route on the slopes of the Sliabh Mish Mountains to the reputed grave site of Queen Scotia in County Kerry in the south west of Ireland. According to Irish Folklore and Mythology, the battle of Sliabh Mish was fought in this glen above the town of Tralee, where the Celtic Milesians defeated the Tuatha de Dannann but Scotia, the Queen of the Milesians died in battle while pregnant as she attempted to jump a bank on horseback. The area is now known as Scotia’s Glen and her grave is reputed to be under an huge ancient stone scribed with Egyptian hieroglyphs.

www.activeme.ie...

Egyptian hieroglyphs? Back shortly...

a reply to: beansidhe


I see. Had no idea that existed, her burial place. The so called 'legend' or myth goes way back of course and it's one of those that actually carries a fair bit of weight. I'd be very interested if they have taken any samples from her bone - if it is her - I'd have thought a possible DNA analysis of that calibre would be just the ticket we're all waiting for.

a reply to: Ramcheck

No, me neither. Just another unimportant myth, eh?
DNA evidence would be great and also presumably a queen would have been buried with jewellery, etc etc.
What really intrigues me about her story is that it ties in the Scythians with the Canaanites/Egyptians, and that is exactly what we're thinking too. That both of those sources show up in the Pict stones.

The few stones that we have left actually tell a massive story already, even before we know what all the symbols mean.

a reply to: beansidhe

Indeed she could hold the key to many a lock on the past. I have no doubt that if she was buried with jewels that they are long gone haha. I mean, even discounting the catholic church you still have many possible pillagers, not least Vikings and Spaniards hovering around that area like vultures at one time or another. The burial area actually makes a lot of sense, I'm of the thinking that the route of the Cruithne was not the Irish sea / East of Ireland but rather from the South West. The 'fact' that she didn't make it beyond Kerry does lead me to presume that she didn't last very long after the journey and perhaps became ill en route.

a reply to: Ramcheck

You see I was just thinking along those lines. She came to Hibernia from the Iberian peninsula? Really? I'm wondering where Iberia comes from - it's like Hebrew, hebrides, same type of roots. I'll need to try and find that now.
I'll speak to my dad tomorrow and ask him about currents (he was a fisherman), because it could be that the natural place to end up in from Spain would be Ireland.

a reply to: beansidhe

Interesting etymology, here's the Wiki (Iberians)

This of course is all about the Spanish Iberians that we all know about

(Phoenicians and Greeks come back around again)

Hilarious, before even reading it ((small digression: when I was a teen I travelled all around Costa Blanca and Costa Del Sol, inland, up into the mountains, you name it I stopped at every city and tiny village. Anyway I was amazed to see Dama De Elx (Madame Elche) bust on that page)) Because I was obsessed with that sculpt and still have at least one small clay version of it somewhere, in one of the parents houses. Anyway sorry for drifting, I just found that quite amusing.

So that's one set of Iberians, prior to this: Caucasian Iberians

From (oh here we go again) the edge of the black sea, Iran...

I'm seeing a pattern here.

a reply to: Ramcheck

Oh I love that sculpture, I have a poster of it in my house! I love her 'ear wheels'.

Etymology here is very interesting:

c.1600 (n.); 1610s (adj.), from Latin Iberia, ancient name of the Spanish peninsula, from Greek Iberes "Celtic people of Spain;" also the name given to an Asiatic people near the Caucasus. Of unknown origin in both uses, but the word as applied in Spain is believed to be related to the River Ebro. The earliest English reference is to the Caucasians; in reference to Spain and Portugal it dates from 1610s.

Etymology dictionary

It must, must, must have another root. The Ebro was called after something presumably, and the Black sea caucasians didn't have a river Ebro. So Ebro/Ebr/Ebo would be our root, perhaps?

Thinking again about the Hebrides:

originally Ebudae, Haebudes, of uncertain origin. Apparently a scribal error turned -u- into -ri-. The Norse name, Suðregar, "Southern Islands," is relative to the Orkneys. Related: Hebridean.

And just for fun:

Hebrew
late Old English, from Old French Ebreu, from Latin Hebraeus, from Greek Hebraios, from Aramaic 'ebhrai, corresponding to Hebrew 'ibhri "an Israelite," literally "one from the other side," in reference to the River Euphrates, or perhaps simply signifying "immigrant;" from 'ebher "region on the other or opposite side."

Immigrant. Now that sounds more like it - it's the term for immigrant (I think).

And since I now have an online etymology dictionary, this is what I should have done ages ago:

pagan (n.)
late 14c., from Late Latin paganus "pagan," in classical Latin "villager, rustic; civilian, non-combatant" noun use of adjective meaning "of the country, of a village," from pagus "country people; province, rural district," originally "district limited by markers,"

That makes a lot more sense.

Hi guys, sorry, not been around much the last few days.
But, Am loving all the latest developments!
Will try and catch up properly, so I can assist in some way!! LOL

Keep It Going!! This is AWESOME!

G