Deciphering the Pagan Stones

a reply to: Wifibrains

They are school trained archeologist who are taught that while digging in the dirt, if you find something that looks like a cross cultural influence, but these cultures are separated by vast bodies of water, it must be some wispy super consciousness thingy.

Desperate for what? Desperate to explain, for example, the connection between Eastern cultures and the middle american cultures as anything but cross cultural contact by sea. Jung is just one example of the utter desperation used to counter claims of cross cultural contact by sea.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Wifibrains

They are school trained archeologist who are taught that while digging in the dirt, if you find something that looks like a cross cultural influence, but these cultures are separated by vast bodies of water, it must be some wispy super consciousness thingy.

Desperate for what? Desperate to explain, for example, the connection between Eastern cultures and the middle american cultures as anything but cross cultural contact by sea. Jung is just one example of the utter desperation used to counter claims of cross cultural contact by sea.

Well I'm not using it to counter anything, both have their merits. I don't see where utter desperation comes into it, it simply a alternative theory. As sea travel was available at the time of the Pictish stones, it does seem the most logical, there could have been a land bridge connecting the Americas to the east also.

What I do know is this chick gets around (not by boat) and she reveals herself. Lol

a reply to: Wifibrains

Forgive me but I understand now that you may not be familiar with the war that raged for decades about cross cultural contact by sea between the Americas and the rest of the world. This idea of Jung sprung up during those days as a defense against claims contrary to institutional offerings on the subject. That's only one reason why I disregard it. The other is that it looks like voodoo archeology. But what really galls me is that good solid work in this field, alternative explanation were being trashed by utter rot like "collective consciousness" while the same called alternative work every imaginable thing.

a reply to: Wifibrains

a reply to: Logarock

What if its not an either or?

Yes I believe we have had sea travel and contact between all peoples for a long time. Yes there is shared mysteries passed down and between cultures.

But

Those mysteries, the symbols that are universal to mankind are built into the fabric of our consciousness. These archetypes are given and built into the system for one reason. They are a map to the way home. The zodiac tells a story. The sphinx is the beginning and end of the cycle. It tells the story of mankind's decent into the lower realms, to the realm of death, where we reside now. Our collective evolution through the stages of enlightenment and fall, from golden age, to silver age, to bronze age, to iron age, to clay feet that break and the mountain that fills the whole earth comes in. This is the elevation/evolution (as you go up a mountain, or high places, ascending). The unveiling of the Sons of God.

All these symbols we are studying are telling one story IMO. THE conspiracy is that we had not been a unified populace prior to the empire taking hold. The neolithic civilizations were highly advanced and quite different from our current mode of existence. The fall that takes place in all the religions is a memory of our unified existence, where the language of symbols was spoken by all, not taken and hoarded by the Masters who created Castes and subjugated peoples, held them in bondage through their priests through thought, and by the warriors through might.

These archetypes are very powerful that can be used for good and evil.

Sorry got carried away there, but its something thats been brewing for a while.

Just my thoughts,

a reply to: zardust

Those mysteries, the symbols that are universal to mankind are built into the fabric of our consciousness. These archetypes are given and built into the system for one reason. They are a map to the way home.

That is what I'm talking about, and confirms personal experience I hope to one day find the words to explain without sounding bat# crazy.


When i put it into words it sounds like scifi spiritual mumbo jumbo hard to believe, you just made that up bull#... I got the Ezekiel effect. 24hrs on the throne. The snake lady was a gatekeeper.

a reply to: zardust

Like the Tower of Babel story tries to convey?
It's all good food for thought.
We have some definites in our narrow time-frame. We could go back and try to link the Pict stones with the Callanish stone circles, Mae's Howe and the other Neolithic structures, and in some posts I've made tentative links. But the time gaps are just too huge. That's why we're sticking with definites - we know the Phoenicians et al were here looking for tin, and we find Phoenician symbolism on the stones. We know the Dacians and Thracians were moving west, and we find Dacian symbolism too.
We know these people were talking, trading and much, much more. We see it set in stone (lolololol).
So in some ways, we don't need to speculate about collective consciousness - we just need to know who was where, when and work from there. Where THEY got their imagery from though, is anyone's guess!

a reply to: zardust

I don't buy it but rather opt for the idea that some very smart individuals understood the power over the mind say the archetypical mother figure has. These things were passed down as tools of the trade for controlling the population, justifying positions, ect to the beasts of the field as it were. The more esoteric explanation of symbols is purely cultic and layered and must be taught as they are really not passed down from a collective consciousness.

originally posted by: Wifibrains
a reply to: zardust

Those mysteries, the symbols that are universal to mankind are built into the fabric of our consciousness. These archetypes are given and built into the system for one reason. They are a map to the way home.

That is what I'm talking about, and confirms personal experience I hope to one day find the words to explain without sounding bat# crazy.


When i put it into words it sounds like scifi spiritual mumbo jumbo hard to believe, you just made that up bull#... I got the Ezekiel effect. 24hrs on the throne. The snake lady was a gatekeeper.

What is built into the consciousness of man collectively are certain capacities that are easily manipulated. These archetypes most often are presented in the abstract and are designed to be flexible because their nature is to delude the mind. That's why one can find 20 different names for the same archetype and many different attributes ascribed. And yes, back in time, some group of very intelligent but manipulative and deceitful people who understood mankind to be like stupid children, took advantage of this weakness, if you will, in man and drew up the "mysteries" as they are known.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Wifibrains
a reply to: zardust

Those mysteries, the symbols that are universal to mankind are built into the fabric of our consciousness. These archetypes are given and built into the system for one reason. They are a map to the way home.

That is what I'm talking about, and confirms personal experience I hope to one day find the words to explain without sounding bat# crazy.


When i put it into words it sounds like scifi spiritual mumbo jumbo hard to believe, you just made that up bull#... I got the Ezekiel effect. 24hrs on the throne. The snake lady was a gatekeeper.

What is built into the consciousness of man collectively are certain capacities that are easily manipulated. These archetypes most often are presented in the abstract and are designed to be flexible because their nature is to delude the mind. That's why one can find 20 different names for the same archetype and many different attributes ascribed. And yes, back in time, some group of very intelligent but manipulative and deceitful people who understood mankind to be like stupid children, took advantage of this weakness, if you will, in man and drew up the "mysteries" as they are known.

Your opinion directly opposes experience so we will have to agree to disagree on that.

When the archetypes reveal themselves as thought forms in the psyche and are explained by myth and legend ect, then modern western social engineering lumps these experiences as psychotic malfunction it could just as easily be said that the mind is being manipulated to shut them out, it is much more plausible to me that this is what has happened, kept an a straight and narrow path of understanding creates the mysteries to be solved showing the path.

This needs looking into:

How did Europeans End up in the Tarim Basin over 4,000 years ago?
Although their location is certainly an intriguing one, interest in these mummies exists largely because they are ‘out of place’ relics. Not only does DNA evidence show that the earliest arrivals were from Europe, analyses such as the weave of the cloth reveal it was identical to those found on the bodies of salt miners in Austria, dating from 1300 BCE. The wooden combs buried in Asia are also identical to those found in Celtic countries. So are the stone structures on top of their burial sites – similar to the dolmens of western Europe.

Article

And again-

Archaeology UK

Loads of these links - apparently a comb is a common thing to find in celtic burials.

a reply to: beansidhe

I totally understand, I personally think you will find a dead end with things you can "know", obviously or I wouldn't throw in those things. I try to present my posts as factual usually but get carried away with the meaning because that is the light of mankind. Sorry even now I start with one thing and I just wax poetic.

a reply to: Logarock

Are you atheist? I may have misread your posts I got the vibe you had some spirituality. I'm not judging you, just will alter my message, like I was saying to Bean above, I get carried away. I was posting that to you thinking there was some sort of "other worldly" base as a common platform.

I don't ever expect anyone to believe what I say because that is what I have experienced. I also don't try to claim this so as to give me any authority over others, which is what the dark side people do with the force/archetypes. I give this as a parenthetical statement to what I say below. I try to keep it to facts as much as possible.

a reply to: Wifibrains
Cool, I know we are usually speaking the same language, I wish I could actually articulate what I "see", Its hard to translate it from Hyper-reality, through my Adamic mind/veil through to the written word. When I see a symbol and a download of information comes in and you can "see it", that is a beautiful thing, and almost impossible to put into words.

originally posted by: beansidhe
This needs looking into:

How did Europeans End up in the Tarim Basin over 4,000 years ago?
Although their location is certainly an intriguing one, interest in these mummies exists largely because they are ‘out of place’ relics. Not only does DNA evidence show that the earliest arrivals were from Europe, analyses such as the weave of the cloth reveal it was identical to those found on the bodies of salt miners in Austria, dating from 1300 BCE. The wooden combs buried in Asia are also identical to those found in Celtic countries. So are the stone structures on top of their burial sites – similar to the dolmens of western Europe.

Article

And again-

Archaeology UK

Loads of these links - apparently a comb is a common thing to find in celtic burials.

There was some interesting information on combs found at burial sites in this book. I skimmed through it, again it suggests magical or supernatural links, but its still speculation.

books.google.co.uk... =X&ei=rIRaU7S_H6fB7AbX6IGwAw&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=combs%20in%20burials&f=false

Here also...

magoism.net...

a reply to: Wifibrains

This is good stuff, thank you.
I notice he lists findings in Sweden, Frankfurt, Bavaria, among other northern European areas.

"A Frankish graveslab from Niederdollendorf, Nordrhein-Westfalen, which shows, apparently, the deceased combing his hair, is thought to represent an affirmation of life after death (Bohner 1950."

Arthur MacGregor, 'Bone, Antler, Ivory and Horn -Technology of Skeletal Materials'.

The author goes on to note that they were a common motif on cremation urns amongst celtic communities too.



The comb as a representation of a belief in the afterlife? That sounds plausible.

originally posted by: beansidhe

The comb as a representation of a belief in the afterlife? That sounds plausible.

The comb represents everything.
From physical to spiritual.

Symbolically it can be used in countless ways.

Do I really need to make a thread called "Cosmic Combology" with 100 huge posts to prove it? That I can just talk about a comb and basically turn it into an exploration of all that exists?

I don't mean to come off negative, but ya'll are seriously ignoring my suggestions. Or at least rejecting them without offering a valid counter that disputes my suggestion. Just saying "that's not what I think" isn't good enough, we will never get anywhere with a non-scientific attitude. You have to scientifically and philosophically back up your suggestions or else they are not very strong at all.

I really believe that there is a notion floating around that there is "only one solid meaning" for this symbol. No symbol ever had "one solid meaning", ever. All symbols are versatile and encode many meanings simultaneously.

You simply will have to grasp this concept if you seek to make any real progress here.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Celtic Symbols of love and strength, the Ancient Symbols — there is a secret language that most of us recognize, but in which few are fluent — the language of symbols. Symbols surround us in many formats, shapes, sizes, and appearances, forming an inextricable part of our daily lives, yet unlike our spoken languages, a schooling in symbolism is left to the individual initiative. Even in religious teaching, symbols are presented as emblems of belonging and on a deeper level represent much more than mere historical artifacts one wears to identify with one's faith.

Celtic Symbols and Meanings of Ancient Irish and Norse based signs, sigils and love symbols, witchcraft symbols, and symbols of love are ancient symbols of magic and the zodiac, often used as symbols of strength, power and family unity. Symbols - Representations - Correspondences Animal Symbols, Astrology Symbols, Celtic Symbols, Zodiac and Horoscope, Love Signs, and other Magic Symbols, Emblems, Glyphs, and Tattoo designs we take for granted today as static signs of religious or secular life were created long ago and through modern Iconography have been revealed as representations of our world — our universe — the movements of earth and heaven, symbols of the seasons, and representations of cosmic and earthly deities.

Over time, these ancient symbols have acquired layers of increasingly complex meaning, and this evolution of meaning tells us much about how we developed our ideas about the nature of life and the universe. Signs used in modern magick and Western religious traditions such as the Celtic symbols, zodiac symbols, Egyptian symbols ect, and their symbol meanings, share a common ancestry that dates before the creation of writing. These symbols are powerful because they are archetypal — as even cultures that do not share language share an innate understanding of symbols just as the ancient Celts did.

www.spelwerx.com...

a reply to: muzzleflash

There is, I am convinced, only one meaning for this symbol.
Why do I think that? Because over a fairly wide geography across Scotland, and maintained for centuries through generations this symbol was repeatedly used specifically on these stones. Therefore I believe it had meaning to those people at that time in history.

Symbols can mean different things to different cultures, but within a culture I would disagree and state that the people at that time knew exactly what was meant by a comb engraved on a stone.
You forget that although you can talk about a comb and find many different levels of meaning, it's unlikely that the Picts would have access to the same information and cross-cultural resources. They wouldn't have known about all the other meanings, and even if they did, they wouldn't have stuck to the same few symbols to depict -what? Everything? This makes no sense.

By finding antecedence in similar or linked cultures, I am backing up my assertions. Saying it could mean anything or everything isn't helpful. Looking for remnants of belief in folklore, tradition or custom is more likely to offer some insight into meaning.

It could represent a thousand things, of course it could. What it meant to the Picts specifically at that point in history is the question here.

a reply to: beansidhe

Are there any theories on what the stones themselves represent, ie, boundry markers, burial/memorial ect?

a reply to: Wifibrains

Ha ha - wait for it! No, no consensus amongst scholarly types.
They could be either of those things and someone (stormcell, I think) wondered if they were directional markers. Most of them have been moved from their original place. Some were rescued, having been reused as stones in boundary walls and the like.
Some of them (I think the Newton stone was one) were known locally as 'the Druid's Stone', and whether they were or not, nobody knows. Another was known locally as Guinevere's (from the Arthurian legends) grave stone (below).



Are you thinking different symbols might identify different uses?

a reply to: beansidhe

Yes maybe, perhaps! Lol.

boundry markers indicating the local beleifs, gods/goddess or tpye of magic/ritual used, energy grid spots/portal markers... to mark rituals/events that happened at the areas the stones are/were placed perhaps?.

If they were a pagan - shamanic type of people and had connections to nature and the cosmos there could be a connection to other stele type stones in other cultures as similar paths in evolution compelled the same results.

There is a book about the Picts called Picts and Ancient Britons. It suggests that the Picts were not celts but Scythians and were Finno-Ugrian immigrants from the Baltic Coast. Not sure if you know about it or have read it?