Deciphering the Pagan Stones

beansidhe
reply to post by Ramcheck

 

Oh my goodness.That woman on the right works in our co-op! They do look Scottish - or do we look Udmurtish?

And of course Udmurts traditionally wear Tartan, but I'm taking you off track here.



Or am I...?

reply to post by Ramcheck


Lol!
Obviously not!
They look Scottish, they wear tartan and they have carved stones on Colonsay? Probably wise to consider them.
This is good, because I was wondering which symbols we could put a meaning to with some confidence and which ones were still unknown, but first I think, we need to take a look at some Scythian symbolism.

beansidhe
reply to post by Ramcheck

 

Lol!
Obviously not!
They look Scottish, they wear tartan and they have carved stones on Colonsay? Probably wise to consider them.

This is good, because I was wondering which symbols we could put a meaning to with some confidence and which ones were still unknown, but first I think, we need to take a look at some Scythian symbolism.

Oh absolutely, I just jumped about 3000 years there, let's roll it back a little..

Bean Sidhe,
I just caught that banshee reference, and oh my.
In one version of the banshee legend , there is a reference of "the woman who washes at the ford" as the wailing spirit that forebodes death.
So here in central California we have the Hispanic La Llorona,

Although several variations exist, the basic story tells of a beautiful woman by the name of Maria who drowns her children in order to be with the man that she loved. The man would not have her, which devastated her. She would not take no for an answer, so she drowned herself in a river in Mexico City. Challenged at the gates of Heaven as to the whereabouts of her children, she is not permitted to enter the afterlife until she has found them. Maria is forced to wander the Earth for all eternity, searching in vain for her drowned offspring, with her constant weeping giving her the name "La Llorona." She is trapped in between the living world and the spirit world.

In some versions of this tale and legend, La Llorona will kidnap wandering children who resemble her missing children, or children who disobey their parents. People who claim to have seen her say she appears at night or in the late evenings from rivers or lakes in Mexico. Some believe that those who hear the wails of La Llorona are marked for death, similar to the Gaelic banshee legend [according to whom?]. She is said to cry, "Ay, mis hijos!" which translates to, "Oh, my children!"

Around here La Llorona is associated with the gravel beds of the rivers, where the water is shallow, or a ford.
A couple of native American friends of mine have told me about the "river witch" who haunts the shallows and crossings of rivers, and who lures the unsuspecting to thier deaths in the river.
What's weird is that in a couple of the local instances,
the areas where the river witch haunts are very shallow gravel beds , that people seem to drown in with great regularity.

reply to post by punkinworks10


That is a very specific story to have sprung up coincidentally!
The Bean sidhe is known for her connection with water, and of course the Sidhe are all 'otherworld', so not living and not dead. There's a few strange stories of bean sidhe's marrying local men, or of warning men who are about to get married.
I'm sure folklore is important in all of these studies - it's too easy to write it off as silly or superstitious. The Kelpies or waterhorses were the ones that drowned people here, although bean sidhe's do in some stories I've read.

I suppose it's also worth adding this puzzling reference while we're talking about Spanish speaking persons - weeee, back to Rosslyn Chapel! Well, down a bit actually, to Hexham in Northumbria, England. The crypt is dated from AD 674, while the body of the chapel is thought to be around the 1200's. It's home to a strange carving of an Atzec style stone:



Gordon Napier

Ramcheck
reply to post by Logarock

 

Another one for your list. The Isle of Danna, Inner Hebrides. Which is connected to the mainland via a causeway.

en.wikipedia.org...

If this Danite idea is correct then it looks like they simply saturated the Isles and must have been quite the sea fairing folk. The word Danish just came to mind.

By the way....check out the word Hebrides. Looks like Heb-rew. Israelites.

reply to post by Ramcheck


Ok, I've rolled it back and have some examples of Scythian art:



Notice the centaur here:


And on a Pict stone:


And by pure chance, the best of all:



This is from the Iberian coast, and I'm going to try and find out some more about it.

Metropoli tan Museum

Here are some writings from some of the old Hebrew Prophets talking about the Isles and Dan.


Ezekiel 27:15-The men of Dedan were thy merchants; many isles were the merchandise of thine hand: they brought thee for a present horns of ivory and ebony.....Dan also and Javan going to and fro occupied in thy fairs: bright iron, cassia, and calamus, were in thy market....Dedan was thy merchant in precious clothes for chariots.....

Dan here is listed among other merchants that did a brisk business by sea.


Jeremiah 25...And all the kings of Tyrus, and all the kings of Zidon, and the kings of the isles which are beyond the sea....

Both of these writings are about the fall of the Phoenician sea empire. Notice he is talking about isles "beyond' the sea which most certainly is a reference to isle outside Gibraltar. By the way note how close Tyrus is to Tyrone. Could it read Kings of Tyrone? Or Tyrone an adaptation of Tyrus.

These writers Jeremiah and Ezekiel were contemporaries 626-570 est BC.

They were concerned with these islanders because they were Israelites apparently.

Below is another reference to Javan. I only post this to show a connection with Dan and Javan, above, and Javan as a place where Israelites will flee.....below.. when their country, Israle is destroyed. The Isles "afar off" are also mentioned. I am not saying that the isles were Javan but that the nation already had connections with these places apparently by way of the Dannite sea tribe of Israle.

Isaiah 66.(8th-7th cent bc)....And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

In my study of ancient art during the time periods between the Minoan culture and the later classical Greek culture, I noticed many portrayals of the goddess with wings, flanked by 2 animals in heraldic position (stag, dog, or lion) or holding geese or cranes in her hands. She usually grasps them by neck, horns, legs, or paws. She is not only their mistress, but also their nurturer and source. She is the divine figure to whom the wild things belong. This convention portrays an aspect of the great Minoan goddess, that carries on down through the years and is known as Potnia Theron — Lady of the Wild Animals or Mistress of the Beasts.

I became very Interested in these incarnations of the Divine Feminine in her transition down through the years, until she becomes the goddess, Artemis of Classical Greece. The great Minoan Goddess was the epiphany of nature, the cosmic mother, nurturer of all, and source of life. In the much later Classical Greek culture she became divided up into individual goddesses who represent different aspects of her power: Artemis, Hera, Aphrodite, Demeter and Athena.

The classical Greek Artemis still retained some of the qualities of Potnia Theron and the great Minoan Goddess. Classical Greek Artemis is the goddess of wild nature, and a virgin huntress. She is goddess of the moon as her brother, Apollo, is god of the sun. She is also the protector of maidenhood and pregnancy. She is usually depicted with a crescent moon in her hair and bow and quiver of arrows. Sometimes, she is accompanied by hunting dogs or a stag.

Source -blog

Logarock

Ramcheck
reply to post by Logarock

 

Another one for your list. The Isle of Danna, Inner Hebrides. Which is connected to the mainland via a causeway.

en.wikipedia.org...

If this Danite idea is correct then it looks like they simply saturated the Isles and must have been quite the sea fairing folk. The word Danish just came to mind.

By the way....check out the word Hebrides. Looks like Heb-rew. Israelites.

Hebudes?

The earliest written references that have survived relating to the islands were made by Pliny the Elder in his Natural History, where he states that there are 30 "Hebudes", and makes a separate reference to "Dumna", which Watson (1926) concludes is unequivocally the Outer Hebrides. Writing about 80 years later, in 140-150 AD, Ptolemy, drawing on the earlier naval expeditions of Agricola, also distinguished between the Ebudes, of which he writes there were only five (and thus possibly meaning the Inner Hebrides) and Dumna.[75][76][77] Later texts in classical Latin, by writers such as Solinus, use the forms Hebudes and Hæbudes.[78]
The names of the individual islands reflect their complex linguistic history. The majority are Norse or Gaelic but the roots of several of the Hebrides may have a pre-Celtic origin and indeed the Haiboudai recorded by Ptolemy may itself be pre-Celtic.[77] Adomnán, the 7th century abbot of Iona, records Colonsay as Colosus and Tiree as Ethica, both of which may be pre-Celtic names.[79] Islay is Ptolemy's Epidion,[80] the use of the "p" hinting at a Brythonic or Pictish tribal name,[81] although the root is not Gaelic and of unknown origin.

Wiki Hebrides

reply to post by beansidhe

The two things you quoted from my post were separate. The later had nothing to do with the Danish.

reply to post by Logarock


No, I know. I just quoted it so it was clear which statement it was from, since it was directed at Ramcheck. Hebrides, Hebron, Hebrew Isles - it's possible, isn't it?

What is also interesting is Denmark, known as Danmark to the locals:

The etymology of the word Denmark, and especially the relationship between Danes and Denmark and the unifying of Denmark as a single kingdom, is a subject which attracts debate.[27][28] This is centred primarily on the prefix "Dan" and whether it refers to the Dani or a historical person Dan and the exact meaning of the -"mark" ending. The issue is further complicated by a number of references to various Dani people in Scandinavia or other places in Europe in Greek and Roman accounts (like Ptolemy, Jordanes, and Gregory of Tours), as well as mediaeval literature (like Adam of Bremen, Beowulf, Widsith, and Poetic Edda).
Most handbooks derive[29] the first part of the word, and the name of the people, from a word meaning "flat land", related to German Tenne "threshing floor", English den "cave", Sanskrit dhánuṣ- (धनुस्; "desert"). The -mark is believed to mean woodland or borderland (see marches), with probable references to the border forests in south Schleswig.[30]
The first recorded use of the word Danmark within Denmark itself is found on the two Jelling stones, which are runestones believed to have been erected by Gorm the Old (c. 955) and Harald Bluetooth (c. 965). The larger stone of the two is popularly cited as Denmark's baptismal certificate (dåbsattest),[31] though both use the word "Denmark", in the form of accusative ᛏᛅᚾᛘᛅᚢᚱᚴ "tanmaurk" ([danmɒrk]) on the large stone, and genitive ᛏᛅᚾᛘᛅᚱᚴᛅᚱ "tanmarkar" (pronounced [danmarkaɽ]) on the small stone.[32] The inhabitants of Denmark are there called "tani" ([danɪ]), or "Danes", in the accusative.

Jelling Stone

reply to post by Ramcheck

Just before I forget this. The name Lebanon (an area uses by Phoenician traders on the Med) is an Ancient Semitic term meaning 'White', as is 'Alba', or 'Albyn'.

The Semites who lived in the eastern portion of the Fertile Crescent were Sumerians, Assyrians, and Babylonians.

In Lebanon (White) is Baalbek and the Temple of Baal known for it's immense stones of unmoveable size and weight.

In the Bible there is another name that appears related to Baal, which is Baalath, a town of the tribe of Dan, which was fortified by King Solomon in 970 BC where again Baal was worshiped with the permission of Solomon. It is worth mentioning here that even in the temple of Solomon, Baal was a deity that was allowed to be worshiped in the temple.
And Baalath, and all the store cities that Solomon had, and all the chariot cities, and the cities of the horsemen, and all that Solomon desired to build in Jerusalem, and in Lebanon, and throughout all the land of his dominion. Chronicles 8:6
It has become obvious that Baalbek is a mysterious ancient city, used for thousands of years by many different civilizations. The Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Greeks and the Romans all of them used it and all of them worshiped Baal. The origins are unknown and why the site was so important is also unknown.

I read recently that Baal is considered a comet by some, and 'he' was not worshipped as such by those who understood his significance, only by those who had personified him.

Does this hypotheses make sense to anyone? Baal was a comet, which caused destruction. There was an impetus to understand astronomy and the likelihood of 'his' return. The tribe of Dan were well aware of this, and continued to record astronomical information, as it was of such importance. They took this skill with them wherever they went. It does seem that where they go, stones appear.

reply to post by beansidhe


Hi Bean,
That is a very interesting idea about Baal.
I don't remember if i mentioned this, Mike Baillie's Arthur to Exodus is an awesome book.
It lays out the cosmic impact aspects of the Exodus and the Arthurian legends,
In the Passover tradition , the angel of the lord that brings destruction to Egypt, is theorized as being a very close pass of a comet, with a series of impacts of fragments.
The earthsquakes from the impacts is what killed the "first born of Egypt" , as the Egyptians lived in mud brick houses that collapsed, while the Hebrews lived in tents that only shook a little.
I could understand how such an event would leave quite an impression on the people, and associate the passing of the comet with a god.
And at the time of exodus the Hebrews were still polythesistic.
Infact when the first temple was built , Solomon built a temple to Baal at Baalbek, so the Hebrews who didn't accept the covenant of Moses could still worship.

reply to post by punkinworks10


It is a fascinating idea, and I read it from an archaeologist who was studying -would you believe- South American carved stones. I can't find his article for the life of me today, but I've not given up yet!

It all clicked into place for me when I read that. Why on earth would Solomon -whom we remember for his wisdom - allow the worship of another God at his temple? That just sounds crazy. But if Solomon knew Baal was not a God per se, he would have every motivation to allow the priests and scholars access to a temple to commemorate this event and chart future predictions.
This just sounds so much more reasonable to me.

I will definitely look into that book you recommended. Logarock linked a great video earlier where Alan Wilson links the European Dark ages to a comet passing, and again to King Arthur.

reply to post by punkinworks10


This sort of thing is all well and good but it really doesn't match up with recorded events. Its amazing how some that have tried to put an explanation to such fantastic events, such as a comet, end up sounding more fantastic than the original story or nothing like it at all. And all I am saying is that reading the record of events one has to really stretch the imagination to see a comet being responsible.

reply to post by beansidhe


Solomon was a very mixed up man. He was responsible for opening the door to what became the ruin of Israel. He shouldn't take all the blame but it was this connection with Tyre and Sidon that sank roots deep into Israel. This relationship culminated into a marriage of a Phoenician princess to the northern Israeli king and the daughter of same married into the Jewish royal line and all most cost them everything. Baal worship was in full swing by then.

reply to post by Logarock


All things to all people? So it would be possible that he may have allowed the worship of two different Gods? Hmm.
Is it possible that only an elite knew the truth about Baal/comet or do you think they were all worshipping a God called Baal?

reply to post by beansidhe


Well whatever the....misunderstanding was, as it is written, the God of the burning bush sent prophets out to mock them for their Baal worship, queen of heaven worship, oak grove goings on, propensity toward golden calves, Moloch worship, monthly prognostications, Sun worship, the worship and eating of rats in some sort of ritual and a host of other intrusions. Solomon's experiment in all things to all men was not sanctioned and was a failure.

And yes they did end up wholesale worshiping a god called baal but it is very clear that the God of the burning bush was not Baal. The God of their fathers was not Baal. I cant understand the confusion here because it is very clear. Certainly the same sort of muddiness in their day lead some to teach falsely that Ball was the same as Yahweh. But as then and so today this is just so much apis bull stuff.

However when studying the migration of these people and others they can be tracked by such evidence.

reply to post by Logarock


Aah, I see. I always get confused with Biblical figures, I'm afraid. Hang on though -was Solomon's Temple not the one the mason's today still talk about? Hiram Abiff was a son of a Tyrian, in the story.