Deciphering the Pagan Stones

reply to post by Ramcheck


The mirror, good find! I thought the Romans brought Christianity to the heathen Scots? Unless this religion was already in practice long before, brought by other peoples? I need to spend more time looking at Mithras, because this is looking very promising!!

re the etruscans...

An Unknown and Unexpected Migration Group Confirmed

In 1997, a fifth mtDNA haplogroup was identified in Native Americans. This group, called ‘"X," is present in three percent of living Native Americans. Haplogroup X was not then found in Asia, but was found only in Europe and the Middle East where two to four percent of the population carry it. In those areas, the X haplogroup has primarily been found in parts of Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy, and Israel. In July 2001, a research letter was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics, relating that a few people with the ‘X' type had been identified in a tribe located in extreme southern Siberia.

These people, called the Altasians, or Altaics, as Russian geneticists refer to them, have always lived in the Gobi Desert area. Archaeologists and geneticists are certain that the presence of "X" in America is not the result of historic intermarriages. It is of ancient origin. In addition, the 'X’ type has now been found in the ancient remains of the Basque. Among Native American tribes, the X haplogroup has been found in small numbers in the Yakima, Sioux, and Navaho tribes. It has been found to a larger degree in the Ojibway, Oneota, and Nuu-Chah-Nulth tribes.

The X haplogroup has also been discovered in ancient remains in Illinois near Ohio and a 'few’ other areas near the Great Lakes. It has not (so far) been found in South or Central American tribes including the Maya. The X haplogroup appears to have entered America in limited numbers perhaps as long ago as 34.000 B.C. Around 12,000 B.C. to 10.000 B.C. it appeared in much greater numbers.

It is important to note that not all Native American tribes have been categorized by mtDNA analysis and that relatively few ancient remains have been tested.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...


maybe here is the "etruscan" gene from italy...

DNA Analysis Has Cleared Up The Origins of the Etruscans....

The Tuscan samples came from individuals living in the area for at least three generations, based on their surnames, having a geographical distribution limited to the linguistic area of sampling. "We found that the DNA samples from individuals from Murlo and Volterra were more closely related those from near Eastern people than those of the other Italian samples. In Murlo particularly, one genetic variant is shared only by people from Turkey, and, of the samples we obtained, the Tuscan ones also show the closest affinity with those from Lemnos", Piazza said.

Previously, the same relationship had been found for mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in the female lineages. Another mtDNA of local ancient breeds of cattle still living in Tuscany and other areas found a close link to those from Anatolia.


Many Etruscancities were continuously inhabited since the Iron Age, and the people who lived in the ancient Etruria region did not appear "out of the blue". The Etruscans took the Greek alphabet, and their inscriptions revealed a language developed in situ before their first historical record, in 800 BC, without any connection with the Indo-European languages, thus the third theory was totally excluded. By 265BC, the Etruscans were totally incorporated into the Roman Empire. "But the question that remained to be answered was - how long was this process between pre-history and history?" said Piazza.

news.softpedia.com...

Doesn't look like evidence for language on the pictish stones being being etruscan unless they came with the romans that absorbed them....Using mercenaries from the provinces in exchange for citizenship may have been a common practice

The Legend of the 9 Maidens:

Many cultures around the world have stories about groups of nine women. In Great Britain they occur in a variety of situations. In Scotland there are references to Nine Maidens, purportedly a group of,[1] and there were a number of wells dedicated to them,[2] but like all similar groupings would appear to have had their origin in pre-Christian times. In Arthurian material, the best known of these groups are Morgan and her sisters who live on the Isle of Avalon and are both seeresses and healers.[3] It is in this latter aspect that they appear after Arthur’s last battle at Camlann, taking the grievously injured ‘king’ off to their island home. Another group occur in the Welsh tale of Peredur son of Efrawg, and these are the armed witches of Caer Lyow.[4] Also in Welsh mythology, we have nine maidens who tend the fire below the Cauldron of Cerridwen, an early mother goddess figure. This cauldron is the target of Arthur’s raid on the Underworld in Taliesin’s famous poem Preiddeu Annwfn.

9 maidens around the world

A farmer in Pitumpton, blessed with nine lovely daughters, one day sent one of them to the well to fetch him a draught of water; she not returning, another was sent to learn the cause of delay, and to hasten the gratification of the farmer with the coveted draught. Neither of them returning, daughter after daughter was sent, till the whole nine had been despatched on the same errand. The astounded father at length followed them, and was horrified with the spectacle which met his eyes: his nine daughters lay dead at the well, and two large snakes were throwing their slimy folds around them. The reptiles, on seeing him, hissed loudly, and would have made him their prey also if he had not saved himself by flight. The whole neighbourhood assembled in a state of the utmost excitement, and a young man, the suitor of one of the sisters, boldly attacked the snakes, and wounded both. They left their victims, and, wriggling their way towards the hills, hotly pursued by the youth and his companions, were destroyed near the base of the Sidlaws.’

The above account has the nine maidens being killed by two snakes, where as other and more popular versions have the well being guarded by a dragon. The young snake/dragon slayer is usually referred to as being called Martin and according to legend Strathmartin (or perhaps Strike Martin, as the crowd is thought to have cheered during the battle) is named for him.

Mysterious Britain

Here is a stone showing a well known story. The snake is killed (it has a Z rod through it). This story of 9 maidens appears throughout time, and seems to be 'shorthand' for something. I'm going to find out what it is! Planets, maybe?

reply to post by Danbones


Thanks Dan! Basque? That's a surprise.

But Etruscans - I'm wondering if they came before the Romans?...

Do you know what's odd about the Newton Stone, the one with Phoenician/Etruscan writing? There is no photograph of it anywhere. I find that a bit odd. If this is the 'Rosetta Stone', then why has it not been photographed a million times?
I'm going up to Aberdeen soon, I think I'll pay it a visit, since it's meant to still be at Newton House.

reply to post by beansidhe

rosetta stone
maybe that's why
get a pic?

what about etruscans influencing northward away from the encroaching romans into the iron age celts and then with thier iron age tools carving some hi how are ya's

The Dynamics of Interaction: Greeks, Etruscans, Celts and Romans
Programme overview
Bachelor level course, Part time 50%
Lund Campus
Study period: 01 Apr 2014 – 27 May 2014
This course provides an overview of the history of the four central cultures in temperate and southern Europe between 700 BC and AD 100: the Greeks, the Etruscans, the Celts and the Romans. Interaction theory is studied, as are the concrete interactions between the four cultures with regard to for example military, religious, technological and administrative aspects. The possible results of these interactions in the form of acculturation, take-over, hybridisation, assimilation, resistance and occupation are also examined.

www.lunduniversity.lu.se...

The first historical recorded encounter of a people displaying the cultural traits associated with the Celts comes from northern Italy around 400 BC, when a previously unkown group of barbarians came down from the Alps and displaced the Etruscans from the fertile Po valley, a displacment that helped to push the Etruscans from history's limelight. The next encounter with the Celts came with the still young Roman Empire, directly to the south of the Po. The Romans in fact had sent three envoys to the beseiged Etruscans to study this new force. We know from Livy's The Early History of Rome that this first encounter with Rome was quite civilized:

www.ibiblio.org...

I had to add these pages just because its interesting and because the etruscans and the celts and the romans all paly a part in the area and probably all wrote onto the stones or wrote about them

reply to post by Danbones


I will, definitely, get a picture.

I don't see why that wouldn't work, particularly as everyone was apparently so keen on tin. They could easily have been over. It might explain a few things about the Roman connections too.
Logarock made some pretty convincing comparisons between the art styles, there is definitely influence from that area.

The problem is, I just don't know enough about that era or area. I didn't think I'd need to!

reply to post by beansidhe


they were all out in breeding



sorry for the edits im building this as i go

definitely there are linguistic and artistic influences reverbrating all through the region..it definitly makes it all confusing...
er... challenging

There was a unifying language spoken by the Celts, called not suprisingly, old Celtic. Philogists have shown the descendence of Celtic from the original Ur-language and from the Indo-European language tradition. In fact, the form of old Celtic was the closest cousin to Italic, the precursor of Latin.

from the link re celts above...

eta
original "ur" language....PICT ur....?
ur - patron goddess is the moon goddess...the area of a right triangle that fits in a circle which is parly how you take a sighting from a star when you are taking a bearing with a modern sextent

Ur (Sumerian: Urim;[1] Sumerian Cuneiform: 𒋀𒀕𒆠 URIM2KI or 𒋀𒀊𒆠 URIM5KI;[2] Akkadian: Uru;[3] Arabic: أور‎) was an important Sumerian city-state in ancient Mesopotamia, located at the site of modern Tell el-Muqayyar (Arabic: تل المقير‎) in south Iraq's Dhi Qar Governorate.[4] Once a coastal city near the mouth of the Euphrates on the Persian Gulf, the coastline has shifted and Ur is now well inland, south of the Euphrates on its right bank, 16 kilometres (9.9 mi) from Nasiriyah.[5]

The city dates from the Ubaid period circa 3800 BC, and is recorded in written history as a City State from the 26th century BC, its first recorded king being Mesh-Ane-pada. The city's patron deity was Nanna (in Akkadian, Sin), the Sumerian and Akkadian (Assyrian-Babylonian) moon god, and the name of the city is in origin derived from the god's name, URIM2KI being the classical Sumerian spelling of LAK-32.UNUGKI, literally "the abode (UNUG) of Nanna (LAK-32)".[5]

The site is marked by the partially restored ruins of the Ziggurat of Ur, which contained the shrine of Nanna, excavated in the 1930s. The temple was built in the 21st century BC (short chronology), during the reign of Ur-Nammu and was reconstructed in the 6th century BC by Nabonidus, the Assyrian born last king of Babylon. The ruins cover an area of 1,200 metres (3,900 ft) northwest to southeast by 800 metres (2,600 ft) northeast to southwest and rise up to about 20 metres (66 ft) above the present plain level.[6]

en.wikipedia.org...




at 0:04 the z bolt and mirror on a sextant...or one sixth of the circle on a celtic cross

if the vid doesn't load here is the full link
www.youtube.com...


www.youtube.com...
the triangle in the circle in a star shot...wich in babylonian math = the qaurter moon

reply to post by Danbones


Rome incorporated the Greeks but that hasn't taken anything away from the Greeks. The Etruscans should be consider as much or more really part of the development of Rome. Rome certainly didn't pull itself up to greatness from some backwater somewhere.

reply to post by beansidhe



We should seriously consider that the Older Pictish art is not Celtic.....per se.

Logarock
reply to post by beansidhe

 

We should seriously consider that the Older Pictish art is not Celtic.....per se.

This is from Manly P Hall, whom I was reading last night:

"Robert Brown, 32 degree, is of the opinion that the British priests secured their information from Tyrian and Phoenician navigators who, thousands of years before the Christian Era, established colonies in Britain and Gaul while searching for tin."

p33, The Secret Teachings of All Ages

"The Druid temples of places were not patterned after those of other (Mithraic) nations..." p38

They followed a type of Mithraism, but it was specific to them and their environment with wells, mistletoe etc being sacred. No one can seem to agree on whether this had Eleusian or Persian origins.

It would then seem as if these symbols are ancient, not Celtic (I know what you mean) and were taught to the ancient 'Celts' from already ancient sources...?

reply to post by Danbones

at 0:04 the z bolt and mirror on a sextant...or one sixth of the circle on a celtic cross

From Sk8ter girl: If this has been said then I'm sorry but I think the Z & V shapes are axis so it does make sense that they used mathematics along with the planet alignments like with Stonehenge. Could be showing a doorway to another dimension.

Look at the snake on the Z-rod - it does cut through the axis. Sun setting/rising/rebirth etc?

reply to post by Ramcheck

Three very different places, hundreds of miles apart. It suggests to me that some form of Roman Mithraism was being practiced by the Druids. Perhaps the real reason for Hadrians Wall and the Antonine Walls being built was to keep the Northern tribes locked in to keep Mithraists from the new southern religion of Christianity for as long as possible. If so then it certainly worked. At least until the 8th or 9th century when Celtic crosses started springing up all over the place. The same time as the Picts 'disappeared' from pre-history incidentally.

I was reading some collected folklore a couple of nights ago, and I didn't pay much attention at the time. Anyway there was a story about the trouble the Church was having in the 18th century, I think it was the Black Isle, I can't remember, but anyway local custom was still to slaughter a bull on a particular day of the year, which infuriated the Church. That sounds very Mithra-ish now that I think about it.

reply to post by beansidhe


the snake might be draco the dragon or WERME...
due to the progression of the equinoxes the prime reference after the sun which is /was the pole star
was in draco the werme at 3000 BC...today its polaris in the little dipper or the bear

that's why we kneel at the foot of the cross to take a bearing while we cross the sEA in atlANtis
as did the Aryans
I wonder, since they were miners (Or ian, aryan )
if claim as in mining and aim are related ....as in boundary stones...( not all stones are but i bet some are )

Re: Legend of the 9 Maidens -

In Boeotia, the homeland of Hesiod, a tradition persisted[7] that the Muses had once been three in number. Diodorus Siculus quotes Hesiod to the contrary, observing:
Writers similarly disagree also concerning the number of the Muses; for some say that there are three, and others that there are nine, but the number nine has prevailed since it rests upon the authority of the most distinguished men, such as Homer and Hesiod and others like them.[8]
Diodoros also states (Book I.18) that Osiris first recruited the nine Muses, along with the Satyrs or male dancers, while passing through Ethiopia, before embarking on a tour of all Asia and Europe, teaching the arts of cultivation wherever he went.
The Muses, the personification of knowledge and the arts, especially literature, dance and music, are the nine daughters of Zeus and Mnemosyne (memory personified). Hesiod's account and description of the Muses was the one generally followed by the writers of antiquity. It was not until Roman times that the following functions were assigned to them, and even then there was some variation in both their names and their attributes: Calliope -epic poetry; Clio -history; Euterpe -flutes and lyric poetry; Thalia -comedy and pastoral poetry; Melpomene -tragedy; Terpsichore -dance; Erato -love poetry; Polyhymnia -sacred poetry; Urania -astronomy.

en.wikipedia.org...

Diodorus Siculus, writing around 60-30 BC, wrote that Osiris did a tour of Europe? What does that mean?

Also, the Venicone bracelet, in case it rings a bell with anyone?

reply to post by beansidhe

Roman' roads were actually built by the Celts, new book claims
The myth of straight Roman roads has been exposed by a new book which claims the extraordinary engineering feats were the work of the Celts.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

just guessing here
if as above
betcha the spoils of the raids the Celts did traveled these roads as might have slaves too

reply to post by Danbones


Oh my goodness.

He mapped the positioning of hundreds of other towns and cities in France, Britain and Ireland and found that the Celt’s had organised them to mirror the paths of their Sun God, created a network straight of tracks following the solstice lines across swathes of the continent.
The Ancient Paths, released tomorrow, suggests that the Druids possessed map-making skills that historians believed were discovered centuries later and created the “earliest accurate map of the world”.
But their scientific and mathematical achievements have been long forgotten as there is no written evidence and their history has been replaced the stereotypes of them as wood-dwelling wildmen.
“Anything to do with the Celts and the Druids seems very implausible and that is why I spent five years on this, I thought it can’t be true, I have to disprove it,” Mr Robb said. “But they were a very advanced civilisation.
“There is an underlying sense that the civilisation that won must have been superior and that clearly isn’t the case.
“There is a lot of admiring what the Romans did, but they didn’t do it in a void, and it might be nice if there was a more nuanced view of the almighty Romans.”

Are we all just so in synch with the Universe?
That book was only published in Oct, last year. Thanks so much for bringing it!!

reply to post by Logarock


rome took everything they could from where ever and they took educated slaves as teachers
the etruscans would have been no different...and certainly rome was very smart that way even to today look at the way italy distills things they have learned...like cars...

as an example

reply to Ramcheck
MithRA is very interesting to me.
[ex]"Mithra or Mitra is...worshipped as Itu (Mitra-Mitu-Itu) in every house of the Hindus in India. Itu (derivative of Mitu or Mitra) is considered as the Vegetation-deity. This Mithra or Mitra (Sun-God) is believed to be a Mediator between God and man, between the Sky and the Earth. It is said that Mithra or [the] Sun took birth in the Cave on December 25th. It is also the belief of the Christian world that Mithra or the Sun-God was born of [a] Virgin. He travelled far and wide. He has twelve satellites, which are taken as the Sun's disciples.... [The Sun's] great festivals are observed in the Winter Solstice and the Vernal Equinox—Christmas and Easter. His symbol is the Lamb...."

Swami Prajnanananda, Christ the Saviour and Christ Myth

....Because of its evident relationship to Christianity, special attention needs to be paid to the Persian/Roman religion of Mithraism. The worship of the Indo-Persian god Mithra dates back centuries to millennia preceding the common era. The god is found as "Mitra" in the Indian Vedic religion, which is over 3,500 years old, by conservative estimates. When the Iranians separated from their Indian brethren, Mitra became known as "Mithra" or "Mihr," as he is also called in Persian.


www.truthbeknown.com...

you just know im gonna say aryan time period...sun worship....bull... minos/menes, his sOn :his symbol was the bull,
dummuzi was the sheppard......all traits of sumerian/ aryan rulers who ruled in india and persia...buddda was blue eyed too..
krishna was blue like a minoan purpple dye...ety...*sigh*...
make it stopppppppp



taketh thou a very cloath look at his shtick
it is not a sword, it is a ruler, and the sun rays are the angles of the sun...
readeth thou and weepeth...

just sayin



the unconquered bit is from this:

Menes was said to have ruled for 62 years and died after being defeated when he fought against a hippopotamus, the Egyptian symbol for an invader from a distant land.

amazingbibletimeline.com...
its a bible site and its wacked,but the above is sort of true...

al a Waddell
menes the admiral, died in IRELAND - there was a stone there to commemorate that and the glyph is not a hippo in the wildest stretch as some ejippedtologists claim...its a dead nuts wasp...hippos do not have wings and stingers and striped thoraxes
IMHO the origin of the soldier pricking Jesus to see if he was dead bit and a clear liquid ran out'...
like a wasp sting on someone who is alergic to wasps

reply to post by Logarock


This what I've been searching for (and finally got round to); some older records of their origins.
This is odd:

Transcribed from oral traditions in the 10th century, the earliest of the Pictish Chronicles (there are seven) begins with Cruithne and his seven sons, all of whom, along with Cruithne himself, are most likely mythical. They are probably the names of the seven provinces into which Alba, the land of the Picts, was divided at a very early stage in the nation’s history. They may also be the ancient clan names of the tribes who inhabited those areas.

Cruithne, son of Cinge, according to an old legend recorded in the Irish ‘Book of Lecain’, was the first king of the Picts, and is supposed to have ruled for 100 years. His mysterious ‘father’, Cinge, may simply be a form of the obsolete Gaelic (or Pictish?) word ‘cing’, meaning strong or brave. It may also be a form of the word ‘cinneadh’ meaning clan, tribe, kindred or offspring. Cinge’s own pedigree is given as ‘son of Luchtai, son of Partolan, son of Agnoin, son of Buain, son of Mais, son of Fathecht, son of Japheth, the son of Noah’. These middle-eastern origins given to Cinge, and by their logical extension to the Picts, may not be mere fancy as we shall see later on.

The name Cruithne itself may have come from the early Irish word ‘Cruth’, meaning ‘shape’ or ‘design’. This could possibly refer to the Picts’ supposed habit of tattooing themselves (Picti-painted), or from their unique stone carvings that are likely to have been painted and highly coloured. It may also mean ‘the people of the wheat’. Cruithne is described in the legends as having seven sons whose names were Cait, Ce, Cirig, Fib, Fidach, Fotla and Fortrenn. These sons (probably clans) had Pictland divided up between them, and had territories named after them. Some of these can still be identified in our modern place names.

The Sons of Scotland

Would that be to boast of some royal lineage, do you think? Son of Noah? Is that likely?

cruth looks eerily similar to cross...on which we have seen many designs


the real NOAH...

inkel is aware his discovery may cause consternation among believers in the biblical story. When 19th-century British Museum scholars first learned from cuneiform tablets that the Babylonians had a flood myth, they were disturbed by its striking similarities to the story of Noah.
“Already in 1872 people were writing about it in a worried way — what does it mean that holy writ appears on this piece of Weetabix?” he joked, referring to a cereal similar in shape to the tablet.
Finkel has no doubts.
“I'm sure the story of the flood and a boat to rescue life is a Babylonian invention,” he said.
He believes the tale was likely passed on to the Jews during their exile in Babylon in the 6th century B.C.

triblive.com...

the babylonians got it from the sumerians...

Eridu Genesis') which tells the same story, is certainly older (written down early 17th century BCE) and Tablet XI of the Epic of Gilgamesh, which also relates the tale of the Great Flood, is even older than that (2150-2000 BCE, though this is the date of the writing of Gilgamesh and it may well be that the Sumerian Flood story, in oral form, is actually older). While the story itself concerns a flood of universal proportions (even scaring the gods who unleashed it)

www.ancient.eu.com...



re seven offspring

The elder gods made the younger gods do all the work on the earth and, after digging the beds for the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, the young gods finally rebel. Enki, the god of wisdom, suggests the immortals create something new, human beings, who will do the work instead of the gods. One of the gods, We-Ilu (also known as Ilawela or Geshtu/Geshtu-e) known as "a god who has sense" offers himself as a sacrifice to this endeavor and is killed. The goddess Nintu (the mother goddess, also known as Ninhursag) adds his flesh, blood and intelligence to clay and creates seven male and seven female human beings.

www.ancient.eu.com...

reply to post by Danbones


Do you think the claim is just to make themselves sound grander, or are you thinking that this is a Babylonian story brought by the Picts which has since been corrupted?
These Picts are confusing me!