Why does someone kill someone?

Visitor2012
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Look at our culture. The popular music of the day promotes violence (gangsta rap), promiscuity (devaluation of the opposite sex or even oneself), and moral degradation. There is a very obvious difference between the popular music of today, and even twenty or thirty years ago. The culture of violence and the devaluing of ourselves and others is everywhere. It's in our music, our movies, our tv shows, our video games, our books, our schools, etc.

People have been murdering each other by the MILLIONS ever since we learned how to walk on two feet. People from every corner of the World, every religion, every class, and from every society and generation. But let's pass the blame onto our young children, 'gangsta' rap, tv, and video games.

edit on 25-1-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

If you had read both of my posts in their entirety you'd know that I conceded to that fact. Nowhere did I claim that murder is new. I think you are being disingenuous if you can honestly claim there is no connection between a culture which glorifies violence and the devaluing of human beings and actual acts of random violence. Look at the knockout game. Name me a decade within the last 100 years where this was practiced so prevalently other than in the last 20 years?

In most but not all cases, there are solutions , just no will amongst the people to implement them, and then they always get some caricature law and order politician giving some punitive measure in blame of the victims (both the victim and the victimizer), and the people are even less determined to have a wonderful equal system because they've literally been taught that nothing is worth having unless you've worked your butt off as a slave and endorsed much hardship to have, no matter how many thousands of years, millions of years have passed since the wheel was invented. So in reality after all these years, and with advanced technology, people don't need the harsh hard physical manual surivival and can progress their minds and talents now.

In any case, its always about Love, Equality, and end to scarsity and slavery, people living well, good neighborhoods AND, and end to the secret societies controlling the world. People wake up and fire everyone, don't deal with any businesses or banks, established, but only buy from each other, treat all those above a certain line as satanic bad guys and it doesn't matter if a few good ones get caught in the net, they will understand that no ones to trust them or buy from them either, they are taking their power back, and ensuring that there is no child anywhere that is being abused by these elitists.

Because psychopaths are a kind of MKultra system. And many families that go through hardships never should have in a fair and decent world, but only do because of the way this world is run. No child should ever be suffer neglect, poverty, diminished circumstances and traumatic surroundings, alcohol, drugs or sexual physical abuse.

Children go through a phase when they are 3-5, and in that time, they learn that others have feelings.

If you abuse them in that time period, from all sides of the family, its far more severe when its the both sides, then the child has a huge chance, 80% , of becoming a sociopath/psychopath.

That stage of learning other people ARE PEOPLE with feelings, only happens once, in that period. And if its robbed from that child, by abuse during that critical period, then they don't learn that. Other people are more like functions, or card board cutouts. They don't realize everyone is a full fledged person or even what other people are like.

Sometimes its a real lack of intellect, lower IQ, or brain damage with violent tendencies, or conditions that make for violence, that bring out murder, however, alot of love into a child, makes a lot of love come out, no matter what the IQ.

I will repeat that, alot of Love into a child, makes a lot of love come out.

The opposite is what is the problem here.

And yes, there are many loving people in harsh circumstances, but this is a different system, not a whole nation struggling for survival like in the past, this one is about 30 % being middle class and owning homes and voting them in. So they keep that 30% falsely believing they're so good they deserved this, while everyone else is given a life of abject suffering and no way to lift off, and thus they run the hellzone.

beezzer

Visitor2012
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Look at our culture. The popular music of the day promotes violence (gangsta rap), promiscuity (devaluation of the opposite sex or even oneself), and moral degradation. There is a very obvious difference between the popular music of today, and even twenty or thirty years ago. The culture of violence and the devaluing of ourselves and others is everywhere. It's in our music, our movies, our tv shows, our video games, our books, our schools, etc.

People have been murdering each other by the MILLIONS ever since we learned how to walk on two feet. People from every corner of the World, every religion, every class, and from every society. But let's pass the blame onto our young children, 'gangsta' rap, tv, and video games.

So you are of the thought that it hasn't changed? That the same level of violence has continued with no increase or decrease?

I'm saying that people who kill, come from all walks of life. Rich/poor, white/black, Christian/Muslim/atheist, rap music/ rock music/ classical music. Every generation, race or class has blood on it's hands. One can't moralize over the other.

Eg. ("Those darn gangta' rap listening' kids and their IPads !")

Visitor2012

beezzer

Visitor2012
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Look at our culture. The popular music of the day promotes violence (gangsta rap), promiscuity (devaluation of the opposite sex or even oneself), and moral degradation. There is a very obvious difference between the popular music of today, and even twenty or thirty years ago. The culture of violence and the devaluing of ourselves and others is everywhere. It's in our music, our movies, our tv shows, our video games, our books, our schools, etc.

People have been murdering each other by the MILLIONS ever since we learned how to walk on two feet. People from every corner of the World, every religion, every class, and from every society. But let's pass the blame onto our young children, 'gangsta' rap, tv, and video games.

So you are of the thought that it hasn't changed? That the same level of violence has continued with no increase or decrease?

I'm saying that people who kill, come from all walks of life. Rich/poor, white/black, Christian/Muslim/atheist, rap music/ rock music/ classical music. Every generation, race or class has blood on it's hands. One can't moralize over the other.

Eg. ("Those darn gangta' rap listening' kids and their IPads !")

Compare the number of school shootings from the 50's and 60's and then the 90's and 2000's and then tell me that culture has nothing to do with it. I'm only 33 so it's not like I am out of touch with the modern world or something...

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Well said. Why would people not think the "predator" is a byproduct of evolution. We are moving fast things need to push us along faster.

reply to post by beezzer


For everyone saying that violent crime(especially gun crimes) have been increasing, that's not true.

www.pewsocialtrends.org...

Data has been showing overall trends of decreasing violence in America across the board.

I blame the media for highlighting violence while ignoring everything else but either way, the data is out there and speaks a different tale.

There's slight upticks that correlate to the status of economy, but overall violent crime has been decreasing.

DeadSeraph

Visitor2012

beezzer

Visitor2012
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Look at our culture. The popular music of the day promotes violence (gangsta rap), promiscuity (devaluation of the opposite sex or even oneself), and moral degradation. There is a very obvious difference between the popular music of today, and even twenty or thirty years ago. The culture of violence and the devaluing of ourselves and others is everywhere. It's in our music, our movies, our tv shows, our video games, our books, our schools, etc.

People have been murdering each other by the MILLIONS ever since we learned how to walk on two feet. People from every corner of the World, every religion, every class, and from every society. But let's pass the blame onto our young children, 'gangsta' rap, tv, and video games.

So you are of the thought that it hasn't changed? That the same level of violence has continued with no increase or decrease?

I'm saying that people who kill, come from all walks of life. Rich/poor, white/black, Christian/Muslim/atheist, rap music/ rock music/ classical music. Every generation, race or class has blood on it's hands. One can't moralize over the other.

Eg. ("Those darn gangta' rap listening' kids and their IPads !")

Compare the number of school shootings from the 50's and 60's and then the 90's and 2000's and then tell me that culture has nothing to do with it. I'm only 33 so it's not like I am out of touch with the modern world or something...

I don't want to play semantics with the method of killing because killing is killing no matter where it occurs. Let's just look at good ol' murder rate. Using some relative information regarding murder rates in the United States.

Lets use this for the basis of calculation : www.disastercenter.com...


1960 Population - 179 million, 9,110 murders. .00005%

2012 Population - 313 million, 14,827 murders. .00004%

Even in the good ol' 60's , man's thirst for Blood was unquenchable. It's actually gone down a little in percentage...

Of course it's going to sneak into our school system. They're emulating the society that raised them.

reply to post by Visitor2012


The problem is that my statements weren't predicated on murder rates. They concerned the act of random mass murders whereby a lone individual targets their victims enmasse (school shootings, malls, theaters, etc). So posting murder rates isn't really a sound rebuttal to my arguments...

reply to post by DeadSeraph


It's a completely legitimate rebuttal.

The overall murder rate is lower than it was in 80s. There is an uptick of mass shootings but from a percentage of the population standpoint they are a drop in the bucket in relation to overall murder and violence rates. And actually if you look up mass killings in U.S. and compare them year by year based on the population size, you will see there hasn't been a significant increase in the number based on the population.

In other words, the media highlights mass shootings and makes them into celebrity events yet ignores the increasing number of police on civilian violence cases and black on black murders(the former has been rising steadily in the last few decades). They also ignore the fact that murder and violence rates have been decreasing overall since the data became broadly available.

If you were to take a window of the population and compare it to 1980, we are far safer and people in general are far less violent, overall.

It is a completely legitimate rebuttal. To say there is somehow a society disease or issue at hand when the numbers point towards decreases in violence is irresponsible at best.

Just because the media decides to highlight a mass mall shooting while ignoring a mass gang killing is irrelevant, both are mass murders.

Either way though, murder rates have decreased.

Here's a nifty table of media highlighted shootings since the 80's:

Tell me how many you count compared to the population size year by year.

www.motherjones.com...

JohnnySasaki
Because they're extremely pissed off.


Next question.

Definitely a sub-set. Anger and fear. Bad decision making. Lack of being able to come up with an alternative.

I know several people who have killed other people in ways they might have otherwise avoided.

One was a pretty good buddy of mine. Big guy, fun to be around, diesel mechanic. Johnny wasn't the sharpest tool in the box, but he's a good guy. One day he found out a deputy was banging his old lady. So he went home, got a sidearm and walked in on them. Surprise! John put about five into the deputy and then called 911. Anger, poor judgement.

I knew this guy in the service. Saw him every day. One day there was a sniper who was shooting at this soldier's buddies, but the guy made it into the building where the shooter was holed up without being seen. He went up to the floor where the guy was. About the same time, the shooter decided it was time to vamoose, so he and the guy met up in the stairwell. Whoops! The guy gave the shooter a pop to the chops, picked him up, and delivered him to the tender mercies of gravity as a way of expressing his displeasure.

AIIIIIEEEeee...thump. Well, it turns out you can stab someone, or you can shoot someone, but it's against LOAC to chunk 'em a few stories down a stairwell. Not that anything would have been said, but some blue hats came in and found the remains a few minutes later. So the poor guy got NJP and lost his good conduct medal along with various other disciplinary measures. Anger, spur of the moment thinking.

I think there's a lot of killings that come down to that. Not all of them, to be sure.

Killing people is bad.

Mmmkay?

Conflict resolution---that's the primary purpose of all weapons, right?


As to the mass killings--I'm thinking psych drugs like Prozac and possible contact with Gov't operatives have both been likely common factors.

I think killing people should be banned by robots in the future.

So is there a consensus?

I've seen the data that showed that violent crimes have decreased.

I believe we tend to over-think this. It comes down to just one thing, in my simple opinion.

Mental Illness.

I don't mean in the 'excuse' kind of way or the 'off to the hospital instead of the prison' kind of way. I mean in the literal sense that sane people flat out don't kill other people outside of defense of self and/or others. If it's not somehow self defense related then something, by definition, has profoundly failed.

I can't fathom why people kill. It's all sorts of reasons and motives. They appear to be the nerdy, lonely, ugly, neglected, unloved, rejected, brainy types that do it. They hate society and lose control and go on a rampage. I think the root cause may be bullying, by a parent or classmates, low self worth. In the case of mass shootings. Add in that they most likely got put on meds, SSRI's and that is the tool to provoke the fantasies to become realities. Bad stuff.


Guns make it fairly easy to kill a bunch of people at once en masse . The general public doesn't need to be owning automatic weapons.

reply to post by beezzer


I will answer your question, from my personal perspective, and it has nothing whatsoever, to do with what prompted your question, the subject matter basis for your OP, which is why I hesistate. I find the OP sneaky in that respect, as it asks a generalized question based on a specific event, linking things which don't necessarily go together, and putting them together spells disaster, and is part of the problem, not the solution.

If you want my answer, then you'll have to ask the question in another way, therefore…. There are reasons to kill, but they may or may not have anything to do with the event that prompted your question, so the asking of it then seems somehow suspect.
Respectfully,
Tetra50

Sane people can kill for multiple reasons---self preservation being the most common non-criminal reason.

Criminal reasons usually boil down to the seven deadly sins.

Insane people ---well, hard to know, but some psych drugs seem involved. And I have no doubt that occasionally psy-ops by Gov'ts are also involved.

Wouldn't our society benefit more, if we looked to the cause of problems, instead of simply treating the symptoms?

beezzer
Wouldn't our society benefit more, if we looked to the cause of problems, instead of simply treating the symptoms?

It would, but that would mean acknowledging that people have some responsibility for their own behavior at some stage in the game.

It's always easier to blame something inanimate or people who are unrelated to the problem (your political opponents) than it is to look at the ones squarely involved and say, "You know, you might bear some of the responsibility for this ..."

And even harder is to look at yourself and say, "I might bear some of the responsibility for this ..."

Today, we are too nonjudgmental to place blame anywhere. That's just too mean.