Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

my famous physicist friend is writing a book about the physics
of spirituality. I had a hour call with him yesterday. It was
very interesting that he and I found ourselves agreeing about
the general nature of cosmology even though we always disagree
about the nature of 'god'. I'm happy to say, that I'd fully agree
with your quote, that we are discussing 'spirit-matter' and that
there is no real separation of the two.. that one set of laws
governs both and that both are aspects of the one same thing.

I am not sure that I entirely agree with the terminology of 'spirit-matter' and I suspect that de Chardin himself, if he were alive today, would find it somewhat dated and limited, but I agree with the notion of the Noosphere and the importance of recognising the Biosphere as a living entity of which we are a part. In terms of the latter, in Europe we are making great progress, but such work is highly underfunded in comparison to other, less terrestrial fields of study. In terms of that, and most particularly the Noosphere being incorporated in that worldview, a major hurdle remains, in my opinion, is that some of the major players are reluctant to come on board, preferring an insular, self-centred approach. As is demonstrated by much of the discussion here on ATS for example, with regards to UFO-ology and other such phenomenon, the topic is decidedly US-centric. This can only limit the furtherance of discovery and understanding. The conversation needs to be globally inclusive if it is to progress, which is why Vallee is so important.

On a side note, in terms of your physicist friend writing a book on spirituality, it reminded me of an email conversation that I had with my brother which developed from a piece of writing that I sent for his critique...

So he said...

"...mankind's continuing fixation with creation (an ongoing hangover from our religous past that also places what happens in the heavens above what happens on the earth - no Nobel for the environment) and apocalyptic ending (mad hermits and monks who have described their visions of hell and the end of times have long been given a preeminent position in Christianity, especially compared to those explaining the natural world) means that physicists are overly revered and funded...mathematicians have a better claim as maths cuts across all disciplines, although because currently it has problems dealing with complexity it acts as a limiter in science...the reason maths and physics are so linked is because the maths involved is comparatively the easiest (the least complex with the least active factors and with lots of nice vacuums and spherical bodies...as I am sure I have said to you and I know that I have explained to a number of physicists, this is why I believe that physicists are the idiot children of science, unable to deal with complexity (I think that Big Bang Theory definitely proves this hypothesis)...I would also suggest that religion was the old science...in the Western secular tradition we have distilled off most of the useful questions and facts, and what is left is more or less the useless crap (although if we find that there is anything beyond mass/energy (and, to a lesser degree, time and space) there is potential for more useful questions and facts to be taken from religion)."

Thought it may amuse

IF entities exist, and the ultimate plan is control of mankind, it seems plausible that those in power may be working with them, to be co-controllers, or some other reward.
If man truly has 'free will', then the control group would have to outsmart us into ceding our free will.
There are a plethora of tactics that may be in play; media,religion, T.V., movies, etc.

There seems to me to be a deeper reason than appears on the surface for leading humanity as sheep.

reply to post by The GUT


Here is revelations
www.scribd.com...

I have in fact come to conclusions. You guys could stay behind if you like but um moving on.

reply to post by nugget1


Imo
Human “free will” is as temporary as a volcano

It’s probably over rated

If humans don’t utilize it; it may be taken from them…and certainly it will be yanked from them if they abuse it.

“Fee will” probably exists so one can find something with it

If they don’t then what is its value?

It may not be an existential right

reply to post by Willtell


As Buddha said:
"When over the river discard the boat"

Willtell
reply to post by nugget1

 

Imo
Human “free will” is as temporary as a volcano

It’s probably over rated

If humans don’t utilize it; it may be taken from them…and certainly it will be yanked from them if they abuse it.

“Fee will” probably exists so one can find something with it

If they don’t then what is its value?

It may not be an existential right

If we don't have hidden, untapped power in our unconscious/subconscious mind, then why the extreme effort to keep people from believing/knowing/discovering this facet of ourselves?

Atoms =energy and make up everything in the universe. We are comprised of this energy; our energy is connected, and a part of whatever the 'source/operating system' is, so I don't think it's too big of a stretch to believe that with our ability to think, we can control it.

But then, I think even rocks might have a 'consciousness' of some kind.

reply to post by nugget1


Power to do what?

If there is not a hidden unconscious power in our consciousness to access, knowledge of reality, happiness, and contentment then what’s it all for?

Eternal ignorance and unknown awareness?

The people who prevent understanding don’t understand anything themselves but their temporal power inherited by accident.

They perpetuate ignorance for personal reasons of power and control inherited by an accident of time and place.

The true genius sees beyond the temporal to the transcendent.

Willtell
Here is revelations
www.scribd.com...

Thanks, Will.

In Revelations, Vallee discusses a long-running "case" called The UMMO Affair. It seemed to start with what initially seemed bona fide sightings of UFOs with an interesting--and unmissable--mysterious symbol on the bottom.

This was followed by written communications to a number of ufologists and others alleging to be from the occupant race of the crafts. What made this case so compelling to some, was the voluminous material that was produced and sent. Some of it fairly high-quality discussions on a variety of science related subjects as well as a fairly detailed history of the UMMO and their society including many diagrams and their own "alphabet."

UMMO "Craft" Diagram (Symbol Upper Left)

Ultimately, it is hard for many to accept UMMO for a number of reasons, but the remarkable fact that Vallee notes is that it created a cult of believers--many of them intellectuals--that exist to this very day.

A few words from Vallee on UMMO:

UMMO is certainly one of the best examples of the systematic application of confusion techniques in the paranormal field. The novelty in the hoax was to create ostensibly genuine sightings that would result in innocent witnesses coming forward to be interviewed by the media and by well-intentioned UFO investigators who could only conclude they were sincere, while the perpetrators remained in the background, manipulating the photographic and physical evidence.

Both the story--and the written materials from UMMO-seem to have taken a life of their own. Vallee then goes on to recount a story from Borges that fascinates him and that he returns to "again and again" to read. Obviously this story impacted him at depth and we see another solid plank in his construction of "control system" theory.

Before we look at that, I would again note SERPO, which seems a textbook attempt to give at least one aspect of Jacques & Jorge Luis Borges theory a try out. Not to mention that Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green and Dr. Hal Puthoff--Vallee's close friends and collaborators--got caught with their hands in the distribution of the SERPO meme.

...But such rational considerations will not deter the UMMO disciples. Once a belief system is established, it keeps going under its own power, gaining strength from its very absurdity.

Buenos Aires, Argentina, 1947

Among the great contemporary writers is Jorge Luis Borges of Argentina, who died in 1987, leaving a vast, beautiful, and haunting body of work. He was fascinated by the promise and the ambiguities of contact with alien entities. I have already quoted his disturbing poem ”Labyrinth.”There is a little-known short story by Borges in his book entitled Fictions to which I return again and again. It is a purposely obscure and convoluted tale written in Spanish about 1947 and entitled ”Tlon Uqbar Orbis Tertius.”

This last tale may well have supplied the inspiration for the UMMO hoax. According to Borges' story, Tlon is a hypothetical planet invented by a group of clever men financed in the United States by an eccentric Southern aristocrat in Memphis. They use their own talents and that of various contractors to produce a monumental work, an encyclopedia of Tlon,complete with the details of the languages, the philosophies, and the mathematics of Tlon.

But they only reveal a little bit of it at a time to the unsuspecting public. The founders, who are members of a secret society called Orbis Tertius, have sworn to remain hidden forever. On Tlon, as in UMMO, the number system uses the base 12. And there is no concept of time as we know it. The past only exists as a present memory, and the future as a present expectation.Therefore it should be as easy to alter the past as it is to change the future.

There is also a theory that all common objects have doubles. Duplicates of those objects that have been lost can be retrieved, provided one believes strongly enough in the lost object. For example, assume that two persons are looking for a pencil.

One finds it and says nothing. The other person may find another pencil, equally real, although slightly different; the second pencil is called a hron. Experiments have been performed on Tlon to systematically generate hronir of fictitious objects, notably archaeological artifacts.

Thus, four groups of students were instructed to excavate at certain sites.They were told the sites were expected to yield great treasures, when in fact no such evidence existed. Three of the experiments failed. But in the fourth one, the director of the exercise (who knew the truth) died during the excavations. The leaderless team of students, who did not know there were no buried artifacts, found a golden mask, an ancient sword, and beautiful amphoras – all of which were hronir, created out of nothing, by their finders' own beliefs!

Following the gradual release of the Memphis collection of the secret forty-volume Tlon Encyclopedia, more and more people will start to believe in Tlon, a belief reinforced by the discovery of Tlonian objects made of unusual materials around the world. Borges points out diabolically that as the belief in Tlon grows, our own society, which doesn't know that there is nosuch thing as Tlon, will start producing its own spurious hornier, pseudofacts and quasimemories of Tlon that will slowly replace the old reality.

Borges even envisions a future state where the hoax begun by the secret society he calls Orbis Tertius will have totally disintegrated the rational world. How could we not submit to Tlon, to the specific and vast evidence of an orderly planet? Arguing that reality is orderly is the wrong answer. Perhaps it is, but it follows divine laws(let us translate: human laws) that we can never fully elucidate. Tlon may be a labyrinth destined to be deciphered by men.The frightening, even terrifying fact, says Borges, is that the unknown masters of Orbis Tertius are slowly substituting their own reality for ours. Indeed, the earth will soon have become Tlon!Perhaps UMMO falls short of Borges' awesome vision of the Tlon fantasy encroaching on our own world.

It is doubtful that the false landing in Aluche was planned by some wealthy, unbalanced American industrialist. But it is true that for hundreds of UFO believers in Spain, in France, in the U.S., and in South America, UMMO has become reality itself, with its language, science, and cryptic documents. These people have left the real world, and they have even left the tenuous,marginal reality of paranormal research and UFO investigation. In a way, they have been lost to us and have reemerged as hronir, doubles of their former selves, their past and their future rearranged to serve a powerful fantasy that is ”enchanting in its rigor,” as Borges says.

www.scribd.com...

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


When I 'agree with someone', I'm generally agreeing within the limited
framework they are presenting; it's the metaphor more than the
fine detail I'm agreeing with.

This does of course cause issues for me.. as some people are 'rules lawyers'
thinking that they can capture reality with words.. and by obsessing about
little specks of thought they put out there, that there is some major value
to be procured with the process of such communication.

If I talk about regular physics, the metaphor is pretty thin.. but it is *supposedly*
free of 'woo'.

If I talk about fringe ideas, that are proven by not fully integrated like the zero
point field, then the metaphor might work a little better.

If I talk about 'woo-ish' physics, such as variants on the theme that superstring
theory 'strings' are actually sentient.. then the metaphor is much richer.

But the thing I most wish to discuss, I cannot discuss at all.. as all words fail
it... and only another 'woo-practitioner' might understand.. and at that level,
things are much more like a living simulation which has no characteristics
of either matter or spirit.

One does what one can, to have an intelligent conversation; I'm certain you
understand from personal experience.

Thanks for the good quotes.

Kevin

reply to post by nugget1


All that's required to exert a lot of control over humans, is to keep
them fixated on one or more fantasies for which they hunger..

spirituality
religion
ufo's
perpetual motion, free power, etc.

Once the audience is fixated, the stage magician(s) can do
whatever they want..

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


If people didn't allow themselves to become 'fixated' they might learn how powerful they truly are and how to use that power.

reply to post by The GUT

their past and their future rearranged to serve a powerful fantasy that is ”enchanting in its rigor,” as Borges says

This it'self is a powerful statement. It's implications I find disconcerting, to say the very utmost..least.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by nugget1

 

All that's required to exert a lot of control over humans, is to keep
them fixated on one or more fantasies for which they hunger..

spirituality
religion
ufo's
perpetual motion, free power, etc.

Once the audience is fixated, the stage magician(s) can do
whatever they want..

But humanity isn't fixated on UFO's or perpetual motion/free power, we are but we are actually the minority. As for religion/spirituality, recent polls suggest an increase in belief to around 51% up from 48%, so say half of humanity is fixated on religion/spirituality. So how would this work to control humans?

When I look around and see what controls exist to manipulate humans (at least from a perspective of the US) it is none other than entertainment. From sports to clothes, beer, sex, toys, etc. we are controlled by having our emotion manipulated and provided distractions. We are controlled by being raised within a system that finds it acceptable to kill others for honorable reasons. We are made to feel uneasy about our sexuality while constant flashes of boobies and ass litter the television screen.

I do agree they keep us fixated but it's through lust, gluttony, etc. the same crap we were warned about but failed to heed. Churches tend to skew this by saying through these "deadly sins" one will lose everlasting salvation. But what you know full well is by embracing these sins you lose your spirituality here and now, meaning you become disconnected from your spirit. Because of this little sleight of hand of making it a postmortem issue, most people don't have the time or inclination to care what happens because there's no guarantee anything exists after so might as well stuff yourself with all the material wealth you can get your hands on. This is certainly a cog in the control system, likely on the PTP level and also a step above.

Rosinitiate
Humanity isn't fixated on UFO's or perpetual motion/free power, we are but we are actually the minority. As for religion/spirituality, recent polls suggest an increase in belief to around 51% up from 48%, so say half of humanity is fixated on religion/spirituality. So how would this work to control humans?

When I look around and see what controls exist to manipulate humans (at least from a perspective of the US) it is none other than entertainment. From sports to clothes, beer, sex, toys, etc. we are controlled by having our emotion manipulated and provided distractions. We are controlled by being raised within a system that finds it acceptable to kill others for honorable reasons. We are made to feel uneasy about our sexuality while constant flashes of boobies and ass litter the television screen.

I do agree they keep us fixated but it's through lust, gluttony, etc. the same crap we were warned about but failed to heed. Churches tend to skew this by saying through these "deadly sins" one will lose everlasting salvation. But what you know full well is by embracing these sins you lose your spirituality here and now, meaning you become disconnected from your spirit. Because of this little sleight of hand of making it a postmortem issue, most people don't have the time or inclination to care what happens because there's no guarantee anything exists after so might as well stuff yourself with all the material wealth you can get your hands on. This is certainly a cog in the control system, likely on the PTP level and also a step above.

This is an excellent point...What I wonder is if the UFO 'fixation' was being attempted all those years (starting from the late 40's), but when they saw they couldn't get enough of the population 'buying' it, they switched to a materialism 'focus'...

Because you can almost track the 'change' in 'programming' happening over a period of time back in the late 80's to late 90's...I almost think that 'they' gave Bush the 2000 election, so 'they' could ramp up the materialism 'meme'...?

reply to post by Rosinitiate



The universe is incredibly complex, right down to the tiniest detail. Patterns repeat throughout every thing. To me, happenstance particle reaction doesn't seem as likely as intelligent, thinking creation.

We were given our intellect to learn, and we all have the ability of 'discernment'. I think we have the ability to 'unite' with the source of creation, but the path 'home' is as individual as a persons' DNA.
If you rely on science, religion, education, the government, social groups; any form of 'joint thinking' group to set down a belief system for you, your mind becomes closed to a possible 'higher' truth. Your mind becomes cemented in what others have discovered, and is no longer free to explore its' own path.

If earth is a closed system, it would seem to me that we are not being 'visited'.
Evidence of a race (races) unlike us exists. Did they learn how to exist right along side of of us without being discovered? Underground, undersea, invisibly, another dimension, cloaking....?

Something seems to have been discovered by Nazi Germany that began the UFO phenom. and gave us a giant leap forward, technologically. Was that the reason we were pushed into the war? To steal this tech.?

Atoms=energy=electricity? Thoughts are 'more powerful than you think'? If thoughts are electricity, + and- charged, then they are more powerful than perceived. Learn how to collect/control this energy from the masses, and use it to create/control....?
Plasma orbs ( creating crop circles) come to mind.

I've seen incredible plasma orbs, and I don't think they are E.T.
I've seen UFO's, and I don't think they are E.T.
Maybe WE are E.T. 'evolved'. Maybe the chemically/spiritually induced 'visions' are nothing more than memories stored in our DNA data bank.

My lack of formal education is obvious, I'm sure; but that may be an advantage. Years of isolation left me to learn on my own, so I lack the 'programming' that comes with mainstream living and schooling. I wasn't able to have basic beliefs firmly rooted in my subconscious to base all further existence and learning on, so I think I may be too far 'outside the box' to really have anything to add. Or maybe I'm just crazy.
My 'basic program' is lacking in 'fundamental truth' (as taught by all societies), so I feel it best to sit down, shut up, and defer to higher minds here. I learn a lot more when I'm not talking!

Thank you for sharing your POV with me.

Thank you, The Gut, for another awesome thread.
Nugget

reply to post by nugget1


Quite true.
That's why developing a liminal personality is so powerful. You gain absolute freedom from the stage magician's show and learn how to put on your own performance.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Yes those things too.

;-)

Sorry for this hit and run post... but wanted to get an OP thought out before my mind deleted it. This is old hat, really, and has been touched upon in this very thread, even, but...

The whole problem with "spiritism," in particular, is the surprising lack of solid data conveyed by these spirits. I say surprising because some of us have had experiences that validate something that seems like oft reported "spirits" actually existing. Once their existence is solidified, heh, it is odd that even though there's been oodles of contact, nothing too solid or even very useful has been conveyed (debatable, I know).

Perhaps this points to the "control system" being a balance between communication from the "real" world, out there somewhere, and this world we exist in at this moment. This balance might be a very intentional trickle of information as to not spoil our experience here.

This has been written about before in many forms... but in mulling "spirits" over after my conversion to their existence, the vagueness of their communication bothered me, along with comments out of seances and EVP and even "alien" abductions, like "they won't let me tell you." Who won't? Who's in charge "there?" Why can't they be clearer? And the dogmatic assertion that it's simply "lying demons" falls rather flat, for me.

So maybe the whole thing seems nebulous because it's designed that way.

So JV's "control system," and all the hints to magik, Rosicrucians and other paranormal bits, might just lead back to good ol' 19th century spiritism and the "veil" between worlds... and our real, yet malleable "artificial reality" here.

Musings of a mad man, but it's at least possible and even logical if "spirits" are a given.

Edit" And the gov reluctance to address UFOs might leads back to this... as in would you like to be the officer charged with telling the press corps that the military is powerless when trying to deal with what amount to "ghosts" from some external world? Add to the ghostly ranks alien star trekkers with high tech access to this proposed higher realm and some explanations, however scattered and half-arsed, start to emerge.

NIDS/Bigelow...any takers? By that I mean researchers. Very "modern" and relevant I'm thinking. For a multitude of reasons. Jump in...I think you'll agree.

The GUT
NIDS/Bigelow...any takers? By that I mean researchers. Very "modern" and relevant I'm thinking. For a multitude of reasons. Jump in...I think you'll agree.

Boy, do you know how to clear a thread, or what!

Research is not my expertize, and computers hate me...but I'm willing to give it a good 'ol fashioned try!

What, specifically, are you looking for?