Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

KilgoreTrout

KellyPrettyBear
Now concentric circles? Beats the !&^^&^&_=÷ out of me.

Seriously? It's easy peasy...two things obsessed humanity in the transisition between Paleolithic to Neolithic; cycles and boundaries. Circles within circles represent the cycles within cycles within cycles...and so on and so forth. They were so incredibly aware of their environment and their place within it, defining it gave them a sense of control...and "so it goes".

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is circles within circles represent identity within identity within identity. Soul within soul within soul.

In any case, I wasn't obsessed with concentric circles or cycles and then I found myself interacting with them one night. Which came first, our experience of interactive forms in mystical realms, or our obsession with interpreting them within some sort of conceptual framework?

“If anyone asks you to say who you are, say without hesitation, soul within soul within soul…. Everything is soul and flowering.” -Rumi

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Yup. Very solid quote there.

The role of the Shaman has changed in the modern world;
very few of the old rules now apply.

Kevin

reply to post by BlueMule

“If anyone asks you to say who you are, say without hesitation, soul within soul within soul…. Everything is soul and flowering.” -Rumi

Rumi is the only written source I've ever encountered, that at least so far
as I know, has never written one word that is not accurate and profound.

Kevin

reply to post by The GUT


No apologies necessary! Listen, I had so many note cards floating around, anticipating all the different ways the conversation could go! Then on top of that, imagine being out shopping for groceries well ahead of schedule and landing yourself in a ditch!

Nightmare! I was a wreck coming onto the show after all that excitement. Then I got the biggest surprise! I found out you were going to be on and I said, you know what.... I'm not going to need all these note cards!

The Gut, you don't understand how many times, myself, Klassified, and the rest of the crew have plotted and planned getting you onto our show! I'm rather proud of the fact I selected the ONE, the thread, that compelled you to make the call into the studio and weigh in on your own work you put into your informational pieces here on ATS! and giving us all here a little taste of the voice behind the words. That first time is woozy. That first time going live on the air. Who would think you can get stage fright right at your own computer counsel! I still get nervous. Like Klassified said, even after you've done it a dozen times, you can still lose your train of thought, or get flustered. BUT, that's part of the excitement too. I've forgotten my mute. ... Awkward!

I really hope you will consider coming back again when another topic right up your alley... comes along.

ETA - We've got our eye on some other posters here at ATS that are simply excellent in what they write. Your not the only one we're after!

CdT

I just found out that I can induce a trance state with a candle flame. This might offer a chance to interact with our hypothetical control system. If I come back babbling about the space brothers, well, I wouldn't try this at home.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


A little ethnocentric pride…Rumi, the Sufi Muslim cleric deals, wheels and whirls with the ultimate control system—the divine soul.

That little thing we western smart guys forget about as we go wandering on in the Vallee of the Jinns...

Hi GUT, I'll have to admit I love the way you get conversations going. Kind of like throwing a hand grenade in a room - subtle yet effective. Too many responses to read them all so at the risk of redundancy I'll throw in a couple of questions of my own.

1) Why was the rise of the ufo encounters tied to the end of WW2 and the initial use of nuclear power? Sure, you can find many instances predating then but no one can deny the massive increase in sightings and encounters since that time. The usual suspects ask if it was a result of Atomic energy, Nazi science or Secret research by the Allies.

Is there another possibility?

One causal factor completely overlooked so far as I know is the sheer number of deaths associated with WW2. When we look at history blood sacrifice has been a common practice. The Aztecs thought the world would end if they failed to appease the Gods. Pretty much the same deal we read in the Old Testament of the Bible. Much of the ancient world believed the spilling of blood made the Gods happy and would ensure their society continued. It's actually a rather odd concept in that it requires enormous commitments of manpower and resources to win battles or to secure victims to bring home to feed their idols with.

Was there something other than growth and expansion of empire at stake?

I submit the answer is yes, because not only was the blood of enemies spilled but often the most favored sacrifices were made from their own social group - perhaps the blood of a virgin of royal descent or as with the Aztecs it was the winners of the ballgame - their finest athletes. Can you imagine if the Super Bowl Post-Game show featured the ritual murder of the winning team? What possible relation could blood have with UFOs? (forget Tom Cruise and War of the Worlds terraforming, think of something else)

What else did the end of WW2 bring? - A vast reallocation of looted wealth both from Nazi Germany and from the Japanese empire that was secretly shuffled around and shared among a group who have since become the leading advocates of globalism and a New World Order. The "Deep State" or "Shadow Government" was another post WW2 creation along with a plethora of governmental agencies that acted as go-betweens for the Deep State and the Elected government. We are now approaching the point in history where legitimately elected governments are ready to topple due to a global debt crisis. All that money must be owed TO someone, it didn't just vanish. We are fast approaching the juncture where the One World Government is being prepared to step forward and become the savior of humanity.

Are UFOs secret technology or is it related to hidden esoteric/hermetic traditions which also seem to be a part of this same mysterious group?

Another question is that UFOs often appear as light phenomena rather than hard edged objects or "crafts".
Are they part of the same thing or completely separate in nature?
Is there more to light than we know?

Do they exist in 3D reality or do they exist only within our minds?
Could they be projections of thought/imagination/dreams?

Would we know the answer if it hit us square in the face?
I have my doubts.

reply to post by The GUT

Gut, I'd like to put some final thoughts of my own to your thread. There's been much talk in this thread about archetypes, metaphors, analogies, the role of mythology, collective memories and consciousness, ID's, etc. But I think anyone who has spent the amount of time you, myself, and others have spent, trying our best to get a glimpse behind the veil of "reality" should consistently remind ourselves that perception is not reality. Orwell, in his novel 1984, spent some time on the concept of perception, as it relates to reality. Or vice versa, if you prefer. One of the more pertinent passages in that book is the dialog between O' Brien and Winston.

Interestingly enough, the depth of this passage and/or dialog depends largely on ones own perception of the text. To me, it speaks volumes about the very "control system" we are talking about, but the surface of the text gives only a cursory understanding of what's below it. There's a saying. "Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet."

"We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. You will learn-by degrees, Winston. There is nothing that we could not do. Invisibility, levitation-anything. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if I wished to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it. You must get rid of those nineteenth century ideas about the laws of nature. We make the laws of nature."

The quote is from page 234. The whole page is well worth reading, or re-reading. And in case the first word that comes to mind is solipsism. One would do well to read the quote in the context of the page. I tend to believe Orwell(Blair) was aware of the same things Vallee was, but chose to address them in a contextually different manner.

"It is said that Crazy Horse had the power to dream himself into the real world, and leave the illusion behind..." -JD Blackfoot, 'The Song of Crazy Horse'

reply to post by Asktheanimals

Are UFOs secret technology or is it related to hidden esoteric/hermetic traditions which also seem to be a part of this same mysterious group?

If the supernatural is the natural unexplained; Than do the two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not just move the "are" after "UFO's" and replace "or" with "and".

UFO's are secret technology related to hidden esoteric/hermetic traditions which also seem to be a part of this mysterious group.

....and our government installed a feedback loop to track some form of global PSYOP.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Holy crap! It's been many, many years since someone has thrown a monkey wrench into my mind, and now I need to do some major reconfiguration to incorporate your train of thought!

You have definitely stepped outside the box, and the new 'mind toys' are going to be very interesting to play with! A chord has been struck, though I need some time to get the full feeling. Thanks for 'yanking my chain'!

reply to post by Asktheanimals

I submit the answer is yes, because not only was the blood of enemies spilled but often the most favored sacrifices were made from their own social group - perhaps the blood of a virgin of royal descent or as with the Aztecs it was the winners of the ballgame - their finest athletes. Can you imagine if the Super Bowl Post-Game show featured the ritual murder of the winning team?

Actually, the Aztecs killed the losers.

A further violent aspect of the ball game involved human sacrifices, which were often an integral part of the activity. Among the Aztec, decapitation was a frequent end for the losing team. It has also been suggested that the game was a way to resolve conflicts among polities without a real warfare. (Source)

BTW, for those who missed the show that covered this topic or would like to have a re-listen, it has just been posted to the Reality Remix Rewind Player.

adjensen

Actually, the Aztecs killed the losers.

Sez who?

2nd

BlueMule

adjensen

Actually, the Aztecs killed the losers.

Sez who?

The guys who got to go home afterward and sleep in their cozy beds instead of being sacrificed

reply to post by adjensen

BTW, for those who missed the show that covered this topic or would like to have a re-listen, it has just been posted to the Reality Remix Rewind Player.

I really appreciate this, as I was recently looking for this rewind. So I have been listening, am listening now.

reply to post by Willtell


a friend of mine was astrally projecting once.. and some
muslim mystics were trying to summon a djinn and
accidentally trapped my friend in a pentagram thing!
so he talked to them and they were convinced that they
had summoned a djinn prince! I laughed for days about
this crazy world..

Kevin

reply to post by adjensen


You are correct.
The losers were the ones decapitated.
It was still an honor to be dispatched in such fashion though.

Seems there is some debate on the subject though:

It is believed that the losing coach, or even the whole team, might be sacrificed. Some historians have disputed this - because it was an honour to be sacrificed, it may have been the winning team that lost their lives.

www.aztec-history.com...

Ok, I haven't completely lost my memory. Phew!

BlueMule
That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is circles within circles represent identity within identity within identity. Soul within soul within soul.

I would consider that the same principle, any existence, be it that of a plant, animal, human, rock, water or even universe, has a cycle. In the cosmological sense, of those societies that practiced and still practice, shamanism, consuming a plant, or an animal, was akin to absorbing it's spirit, hence at sacrificial feasts the intonation 'It is nolonger I who live, but my sacrifice who lives in me.' The animals that they hunted and ate were considered their ancestors, sometimes quite literally, who had allowed themselves to be caught for the sustenance of the group and as such were accorded due respect. Such practices and beliefs still continue which is why we have such a clear picture of their meaning and import. And, some of them are retained in more contemporary rituals and beliefs, modernised, but retaining the same essence. When Jesus states that you can lift a log and find him there, we can find recognition in our understanding that, molecularly, all life is made of the same components and we are quite literally what we eat. So that when, as from the Gospel of Thomas we make the outside like the inside and the inside like the outside, we can look back on our ancestors and understand that cycle upon cycle is layered in our existence and that rebirth is all around us, as well as a part of us.

BlueMule
In any case, I wasn't obsessed with concentric circles or cycles and then I found myself interacting with them one night. Which came first, our experience of interactive forms in mystical realms, or our obsession with interpreting them within some sort of conceptual framework?

“If anyone asks you to say who you are, say without hesitation, soul within soul within soul…. Everything is soul and flowering.” -Rumi

“Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.”
― Rumi

KellyPrettyBear
Rumi is the only written source I've ever encountered, that at least so far
as I know, has never written one word that is not accurate and profound.

I like Rumi, Sufism in general, but I am warming to this chap too...

"There is neither spirit nor matter in the world; the stuff of the universe is spirit-matter. No other substance but this could produce the human molecule. I know very well that this idea of spirit-matter is regarded as a hybrid monster, a verbal exorcism of a duality which remains unresolved in its terms. But I remain convinced that the objections made to it arise from the mere fact that few people can make up their minds to abandon an old point of view and take the risk of a new idea. ... Biologists or philosophers cannot conceive a biosphere or noosphere because they are unwilling to abandon a certain narrow conception of individuality. Nevertheless, the step must be taken. For in fact, pure spirituality is as unconceivable as pure materiality. Just as, in a sense, there is no geometrical point, but as many structurally different points as there are methods of deriving them from different figures, so every spirit derives its reality and nature from a particular type of universal synthesis."

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Yeah I imagine if we had Rumi we wouldn’t need aliens or UFOs.

I also imagine a guy like Rumi would say to the alien situation:

Fine but what of your soul since you are an alien to your true being

Willtell
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

 

Yeah I imagine if we had Rumi we wouldn’t need aliens or UFOs.

I also imagine a guy like Rumi would say to the alien situation:

Fine but what of your soul since you are an alien to your true being

And of course...

“Don't be satisfied with stories, how things have gone with others. Unfold your own myth.”