Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

Dr. Vallee continues to develop a gestalt out of the themes that are developing around him and in his head. He shares with Kit:

I proposed to attack the UFO system by moving upstream along its own feedback loop. I explained to Kit how the topology of a control system worked and why we could try to affect it, even if we didn't yet know the nature of the actual agent (extraterrestrial, ultra-dimensional, collective unconscious, human manipulation, etc…)

We note here that to "move upstream" against it's own feedback loop--especially taking into account the mention that the phenomenon might be of the collective unconscious--refers, at least partially, to looping information to people.

Kit is in close contact with most of the UFO groups, so his interest is only confidential among the uninformed. Right now he is on his way to Houston, where Valerie Ransone and a group of contactees have promised he would witness materializations. But what are his true intentions?…

There is no way to know what really goes on, and who pulls the strings. And even the bright ones can easily be fooled by their own system or fool themselves.

It is becoming obvious to both of us that some of the rumors about extraterrestrials have been planted, perhaps as a cover to esoteric weapons systems, or as part of psychological warfare exercises in which ufologists are a convenient test bed.

Messsengers of Deception emerges slowly in the media, stressing the hypothesis that some UFO cases are the result of psychological manipulation by the military.

I won't see Kit on this trip. Sadly, in spite of my admiration for his sharp intellect, there's a barrier between us. He's cleared for all kinds of secrets to which I have no access. It's pointless to talk, and I can't trust his bosses with my information. I carry my notes for Network Revolution. There is much to say about the world of computers we are building, the ““solid-state society”” on the distant horizon.

Sealed in boxes, our UFO library is ready to be loaded into the truck and driven away to a rented storage place where it will spend the next few years. I feel lighter and freer now, this mass of information pushed out of my life. I haven't found out what UFOs were, but I did change the level of the problem.

Too bad I can't say more in Messengers. As Frank Pace pointed out, I am condemned to understatements.

In Messengers of Deception, Dr. Vallee explores ufological deception from, mainly, two angles. The seemingly deceptive nature of the anomalous phenomenon itself and deception by frauds and intelligence agencies.

I get the sense, over and over in Forbidden Science II--and Messengers of Deception--that he has a burning desire for truth. He leaves bread crumbs but, as he stated above, he is, "condemned to understatements." That he returns time and again to the theme of intelligence agencies and ufological deception is quite remarkable.

It appears that he wants to tell us…and he's done the best he can.

What have I learned? (1) The phenomenon is real but it offers multiple levels. (2) No simple extraterrestrial explanation fits the facts. (3) The governments of the U.S., Mexico and France have a keen level of interest (and the Russian and U.K. as well) but no scientific research project seems to exist. (4) Some of the brightest people in Intelligence get involved but the real data must be hidden at a different level. (5) Much of the official involvement is directed at faking data, not at discovering the truth. (6) Animal mutilations are real but probably unrelated to UFOs. (7) No solution will be found by mediocre, amateurish research.

Note item 5 above: Much of the official involvement is directed at faking data, not at discovering the truth. Passion evident, Dr. Vallee continues and makes another rather shocking assertion about the manipulation of belief systems:

An intriguing article appeared recently in the Chronicle. A Quaker group, the ““American Friends Services Committee,”” has accused the police of engaging in large-scale political surveillance through an espionage network, the Law Enforcement Intelligence Unit, whose target they claim is the American public. Some 250 law enforcement agencies are said to subscribe to it, as the U.S. slowly takes some of the characteristics of a police state.

Is it within the murky world beyond the law, the domain of private security firms, major corporations and parallel Intelligence networks, that some of the answers should be sought for the manipulation of belief systems?

I'd say the evidence has only continued to build for that police state observation over the years. Rather prophetic actually. MJ-12 and Serpo come to immediate mind as candidates, especially in light of their "religous message" as noted earlier. We pick back up--in the next quote--speaking more on the "manipulation of belief systems."

When it came to the sociology of UFOs, we speculated that a group (such as a paramilitary organization, an aerospace company or a secret society) could well have created illusions designed to take advantage of the genuine phenomenon...A huge secret stands before us, palpable yet undeciphered, and forever beyond the cultural grasp of the few government spooks who are trying to manipulate it.

...We keep learning some ugly things about the seedy underside of ufology, including stories that concern Siragusa, Jim Jones, Bo and Peep. Many contemporary cult leaders claim a mysterious ““contact”” back in the fifties.

Tell us how you really feel about your experience with the intelligence cadre, Jacques:

I have cured myself of the fascination I once felt for the Intelligence community. The realization came when I observed how easily they were fooled by others and fooled themselves. Perhaps they are the ones who can't face the real world and have to invent their own secret games to make sense of it...

Most importantly, I now realize how stupid I was when I hoped that the Intelligence boys could contribute to a study of the phenomenon. They have a different agenda. They make up the most absurd stories and get away with it.

There is peace in Palo Alto, and reality, in contrast to such games. We pick our own oranges and lemons. A giant tree is showering us with gold leaves. We've always lived among trees: Auprès de mon arbre, je vivais heureux... as Brassens used to sing.

Let's look at that second paragraph again: "Most importantly, I now realize how stupid I was when I hoped that the Intelligence boys could contribute to a study of the phenomenon. They have a different agenda. They make up the most absurd stories and get away with it."

Brings to mind how no one had to face any real music for MJ-12 or Serpo.

Forbidden Science II

Vallee continues in FS II. He further defines Kit's attitudes in those days.

On the way to the Capital, and from there to New Orleans...I plan to come home through El Paso where I'll meet with Dr. Green, still in medical school. I expect we will argue again about the reality of UFOs and mutilations, both of which he keeps denying…I am unimpressed by people with secret clearances. UFOs and psychic phenomena are best studied in the field, not in the secrecy of Washington circles…

…I think of the UFO phenomenon as a kaleidoscope with three levels: a purely physical, technological level; a sociological level; and finally a personal, subliminal level playing on the subtleties of the human psyche. The first aspect could spell out an extraterrestrial origin;

the second one, if taken by itself, would point to human mythology and anthropology: that is the explanation favored by Kit and sophisticated skeptics, as opposed to Menzel and Klass, who flatly deny everything.

The third aspect is ominous: it provides a hint of a darker, terrestrial origin, earthly manipulation.

The bolding above is mine, of course, to point out item two. One of Dr. Green's ever-changing explanations for MJ-12 & Serpo indicated he believed some of it was true. And things change a lot in 30+ years I admit. Maybe he became a believer in E.T.

Then again we have investigative journalist Guy Russo's article from much later. What does seem consistent is Dr. Green's alleged interest in "sociological groupthink," and faked UFO data that smell an awful lot like "viral memes":

In that article titled Is Uncle Sam a Closet Ufologist? we find some interesting information pertaining to our subject from a fellow called by the pseudonym, "Jim" who has been identified by various researchers as Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green:

Then there is Jim, whose professional history in the subject goes back to his personal involvement in the Stargate project in the 1970’s and as a participant in the legendary “Working Group” meetings in the eighties. As one of the intel community’s most senior medical analysts, Jim frequently communicates with UFOlogists.

Chris Iverson believes that Tom and Jim clearly have differing agendas, noting, “Jim is the person I have had the most contact with over the last several months and he seems to be interested in the spreading of viral memes over the internet, particularly in relation to this subject.”…

“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.”

Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.

Both Tom and Jim seem to share at least one rationale for their internet excursions: studying the frightening potential of “viral internet memes.”

Coined by evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins in 1976 (The Selfish Gene), a meme is a unit of cultural information that evolves the way a gene propagates from one organism to another, and subject to all the analogous unintended mutations. In the view of many, computers and blogs could function as powerful meme “replicators.”

Richard Brodie, the creator of Microsoft Word, notes, “Most of these viruses of the mind are spread because they are intriguing or frightening or inspiring, and not necessarily because they're true. That's the problem.” It doesn’t take much intuition to envision an enemy creating memes that can be used to destabilize a society, or a freelance predator utilizing them to cozy up to potential victims. Caryn Anscomb writes online,

“The UFO community has been deeply penetrated by the manipulators of information, who couldn’t really give a fig whether there might be any valuable data pertaining to Aliens and contact hidden behind the deafening noise. That’s not their business; their business is information warfare.”

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Okay, now back to Jacques as he continues in FS II:

Something bothers me about such conversations with Kit: We speak past each other. I try to make him see the reality of the phenomenon because he's one of the few people in a position to bring the subject up before decision-makers, but he continues to deny it, in academic terms that don’’t take the facts into account.

This made me think of the Intelligence boys I have met. Either they don't know about such incidents, in which case they are poor analysts, or they do know and they've never shared the information, in which case they're playing games. Kit keeps explaining away the sightings by a combination of witness unreliability, fugue states, paraphrenia, or unspecified ““anthro-pological”” factors; none of which accounts for the hard core data.

Another factor freezing open debate is the meddling of the Intelligence services into a domain of research that should be allowed, above all others, to blossom freely.

And Jacques isn't quite through with what seems like frustration born of experience with intelligence agency elements:

It is difficult for a scientist who is used to the culture of open criticism and honest exchange of data to feel respect for the methods of shadowy agents who invade your personal life, listen to your phone calls, open your mail, interrogate your kids in your absence and feed you false information, all in the name of some supposed higher duty to the security of the nation they claim to serve.

In my limited contacts with the agencies involved, I have met some of the brightest people I will ever know in this life, and some of the most despicable and sometimes crazy characters.

Some rather disturbing insinuations in the above. With those kind of experiences, I bet one does start assessing those around them:

“Do you work for the CIA?”” I asked him directly. He swore to me that he did not, although he had been indeed ““approached,”” as I had surmised. Brendan[O'Reagan] and I share the same reaction to the Intelligence community: Some fascination, mixed with disgust. ““These guys are unreliable, their contacts can't be trusted,”” I said. ““Not only that, but they keep playing games,”” he replied. ““You’’re right to stay away.”

Has Jacques Control System theory been hijacked? If so can we trust those who did? The weaponization of myth and narrative?


Forbidden Science II

reply to post by The GUT

Have you seen this?

and here's another perspective, notice how they both mention Jung

reply to post by lostgirl


True true..

the 'ugly truth' that nobody wants to believe is that our world is overrun by parasites..
just like in the third world, where pretty much everyone there is infested with something..
only this is the spiritual world so to speak I'm talking about.

Some people think one parasite or another is 'good' or 'evil' but in truth they are all the same
thing..

A person has to realize that, and get past that, to make ANY actual spiritual progress.. if you
don't, you are just being played as a fool by some form of religion or spirituality.

The absolute barrier that keeps people prisoner, is their belief that there is some form of
'good' they can reach out to and that will save them. Only it doesn't work that way...

This same false belief in 'good' traps both religious and spiritual people.... it's like a bag
of money in the middle of the road.. it's bait.

Living without the fundamental false beliefs of the control collar system is nearly impossible..
people feel nothing but despair if they try it.. it breaks the mind.. only people who are willing
to become totally broken and have the will to get past that state can find actual freedom..

it's TOUGH.

KPB

reply to post by Brotherman


Interesting question indeed!


I didn't think he was whiney...he made some valid points & seems very qualified. Looking from the outside-in I can also easily see why he might not have been approached as well. For good or bad, right or wrong, who you associate with reflects on you as well.
I feel bad for him.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


One interesting test is to 'summon a ufo'.

However the problem with this, is that once you are successful, it's highly
unlikely that the summoning will work again.. so you can't prove the
phenomenon scientifically...

Of course the reason 'they' only come once.. is to form a life-long bond with
the experimenter(s). Once that bond exists, there is no reason to allow themselves
to be 'summoned' again.

And only a few experimenters have what it takes to do the summoning.. it's not
even a matter of knowledge or skill .. it's something completely different than
that..

It's the very nature of trickster entities that repetition is generally not possible..
any more conclusive test would require a way to cause repetition..

But since 'new connections' are like sex and drugs to these entities that is very
problematic. Old connections generally don't interest them.

KPB

nugget1
I don't think the phenomenon would have captured his attention for so many years if he wasn't finding 'something' there.
I wonder why he feels the need to choose his words so carefully.

It almost seems like he wants to talk about it, but he isn't 'allowed' to.
S&F

The trickster entities generally magnify fear and irrational thinking.. he may
be trapped in some sort of superstitious conclusion.. like they will kill his
family if he reveals too much.. or he may have some sort of messianic
delusional thinking that he would 'disrupt the world's balance' if he said
too much.

I don't think his fear is based on government suppression in any case.

I wish I had his email address.. but I'll just have to send him a letter
to his listed postal address. I'm determined to meet him. I want to
help free him from whatever is holding him back.

KPB

reply to post by taoistguy


These 'spirits' are part of the racial unconscious of the human species,
like in the movie 'forbidden planet'. Vallee may be afraid to mess with
the 'power of the id'. He may think he would damage the entire
human species if he infiltrated too deeply.

Of course he's wrong.

Humans are still in the cocoon stage of their lifecycle.. those cocoon's
need to be torn asunder.

KPB

reply to post by Willtell


He's afraid of opening Pandora's box.. he thinks he can do it..
but he's afraid of NOT opening Pandora's box before he dies..
it would make his life feel worthless.

He's torn.. he's not evasive.. he's not hiding in layers of
intellectual complexity..

He's hoping people will connect the dots without him sticking
their noses in it.. so that he doesn't have to take personal
responsibility for his actions.

He doesn't want to destroy society or harm individuals..

I understand his motivation very clearly.

I think you'd see this same behavior in anyone who is highly
ethical and who 'knows too much'.

KPB

reply to post by Caver78

Parasitic about sums it up

Did you know..?

There is a vast class of 'entitites' who would stop existing if we stopped
believing in them.. that it is in fact our belief which allows them to live..
now it doesn't matter WHAT we believe in... if we believe in angels or demons
or ufos .. it's all the same to them..

Am I the only person to realize.. ? They seek to titillate us... as it is us that
keeps them alive.. our worship.. or fear.. our fascination with them..
is what keeps them alive...

They are just like the human 'ego'. The human 'ego' doesn't actually exist
as a static entity.. it's contextual... it only exists in a context of other
things..

It's the same with trickster entities..

Once we humans figure them out.. they die..

No wonder they play bait and switch with us so much..

Of course humans are the same..

So many hang onto religion and spirituality and other things with
a quiet desperation.. or a not so quiet desperation..

We are in this symbiotic/parasite co-dependent behavior with them..
if we wake up they die.. if they 'wake up' we die..

This is the fundamental truth... this is 1% of what I want to tell Vallee..
what I want to SHOW Vallee..

It's time to leave the cocoon for all our sakes..

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
I wish I had his email address.. but I'll just have to send him a letter
to his listed postal address. I'm determined to meet him. I want to
help free him from whatever is holding him back.

If he answers you, K-Bear, ask him if this thread is getting warm haha. J/K...sort of.

Brotherman
Link

This is an interesting read, personally if you can get past the "I'm a whiny do gooder" theme the author of this page presented (this is of course my opinion) he actually raises an interesting question towards the bottom of the page, I won't spoil that for yall though.

That was an amazing read! I highly urge everyone on this thread to read it…

Question: I think I read somewhere that NIDS no longer exists, is that true? If so, the reason might be worth 'searching' for...

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Let me be more specific on a point I made earlier, and then the vast
majority of this subject should be more clear to one and all.. that is
if you 'buy' the chakra system.

Let's take the so called 'stomach chakra' called Manipura in the Hindu
system.

There are more nerves in the stomach than anywhere else than in the
brain.. and it's the nerves which interact (I think) with the entire space-time
continuum at minute scales influenced by the Casimri Effect
or a similar mechanism.

It's actually human bodies which in a manner of speaking CREATE spiritual force
of a type by modulating the zero point field. That's why humans are a natural
food source.

But not only are we food.. but we also receive subtle impressions by the same
mechanism..

So over time, spiritual entities have formed... we created them.....with our
stomach/manipura 'chakra' so to speak.. and this is WHY 'energy beings' can
exist without bodies.. they are tethered to the human race.. we stop them
from dissipating. We are the reason under the 2nd law of thermodynamics
that they can exist and fight entropy.

It's actually the same through all reality.. physical beings evolve under a
primal impulse from the core structure to exist and express itself....
and they ALL act as machines which feedback.. it's a giant feedback loop..
the spirit cannot exist without the body and the body cannot exist without
the spirit.

Well anyway.. all humans are 'joined' at the stomach/manipura and at other
layers... it's what allows the racial unconscious to function.. it's the glue..

Now humans have evolved to depend upon the racial unconscious.. and have
evolved to depend upon these 'parasitic connections' (the energy that swirls
around 'chakras' are actually parasites).

I'm just using the stomach/manipura 'chakra' (entities.. racial unconscious
connection) as one example.. as it's one of the more powerful and more
negative.. the source of human suffering.. and the key to 'kundalini'
in part too.

but anyway... the key point here, in summary, is that our brains and nervous
systems and personalities are so accustomed to these connections that we
pretty much can't function without them.

You know how something like 95% of all 'thought' is 'unconscious'? In part
it's this big mass of conjoined chakras and the entities which compose those
chakras and feed on those chakras which form the racial unconscious mind.

What humans need to do... to become free..

is to learn to take control of this energy reception/transmission system
consciously.. and stop relying on 'chakras' (the control collar / system
of parasitic interaction).

Then we won't want or need spirituality / religion .. won't fear death..
won't be so easily confused and controlled..

We need to kill ALL of our gods.. angels/demons/false gods/UFO's..
OR ... find a way to make peace with them... as in fact WE ARE THEIR
MASTERS. or at least we COULD BE.

This is all rather difficult to discuss clearly.. I've only come to realize
this stuff during the time I've been away.. when I've gotten very
down and dirty with the physical world.

Questions? Observations? Amplifications? Feedback is good.

KPB

reply to post by The GUT


I'm an actual shaman you know.. I'm his coc aine.
I can answer some of his questions.. I can enter his body
and push his parasites around.. if he has any awareness
at all.. and he does have some apparently.. he will very
much want to interact with me. Maybe they he'll want
to meet with you and others or come to ATS and answer
questions. I won't hoard the goodies if he meets with
me.. and the more the merrier.

You turned me onto Vallee and I'm very grateful.. it's
made all the difference in my own life.. helped me
shed parasites of my own and take a plunge I never
expected to take.

Thanks KPB, you just gave me a good idea, you see the brain emits low frequency radio waves that can be detected, amplified, and the processed to reveal what everyone it thinking, I have always thought that maybe our spinal cords and associated nerve endings may serve as antennas also radiating out what we think, so if the stomach has many nerve endings then it may be possible to reveal what one is thinking even if a person protects their head with a pure iron pot (3+mm thick), hence time to build a room with pure iron walls 3mm+.

People love to say we are all connected, in a way we are, but some secret groups, governments, individuals don't trust their own spiritual beliefs or their own people sufficiently to allow God/nature to do it's work, so they resort to spying on everyone's thoughts and stealing thoughts they consider most marketable or useful, especially in the sciences and entertainment.

Take a lesson from George Costanza, sometimes and quite often you have to infer the opposite, if they claim you are guilty that usually means they commited a crime, if they claim you stole something (when you really didn't) you can be almost sure they are stealing from a large portion of the population, if they claim they stand for freedom you can be almost certain they want to restrict your rights, if they say they stand for the truth they usually mean it's opposite, if they say they believe in the fundamental equality of individuals they usually mean they want to place themselves above everyone else, if they say they believe in God usually this means only when it serves their purposes, if they say there are no ET-UFOs usually this means ET-UFOs are everywhere, if they say your beliefs in possible ET-UFOs and a rigorous, logical, rational search for truth is a mental disorder you can usually infer that it isn't, if they say you have a problem with your brain you can be sure their brains are malfunctioning most of the time.

reply to post by lostgirl


NIDS and WHO indeed. I thought it was noteworthy to say the least.

KellyPrettyBear
the 'ugly truth' that nobody wants to believe is that our world is overrun by parasites..
just like in the third world, where pretty much everyone there is infested with something..
only this is the spiritual world so to speak I'm talking about.

Some people think one parasite or another is 'good' or 'evil' but in truth they are all the same
thing..

I'm not sure that I wanna go there in this thread unless I can personally tie it to the control system theme, but, yeah, as you probably remember, I do go there in the Electromagnetism thread linked in my sig.

Are we being manipulated by a non-human intelligence? Has it got its hooks in factions within our gubmints? I tend to lean towards that theory.

That's not to say I don't welcome it into the discussion, I'm just not sure exactly how I myself can tie it to the theme here. I'm certainly enjoying ALL of the discussion, though, don't get me wrong.

The GUT

KellyPrettyBear
the 'ugly truth' that nobody wants to believe is that our world is overrun by parasites..
just like in the third world, where pretty much everyone there is infested with something..
only this is the spiritual world so to speak I'm talking about.

Some people think one parasite or another is 'good' or 'evil' but in truth they are all the same
thing..

I'm not sure that I wanna go there in this thread unless I can personally tie it to the control system theme, but, yeah, as you probably remember, I do go there in the Electromagnetism thread linked in my sig.

Are we being manipulated by a non-human intelligence? Has it got its hooks in factions within our gubmints? I tend to lean towards that theory.

That's not to say I don't welcome it into the discussion, I'm just not sure exactly how I myself can tie it to the theme here. I'm certainly enjoying ALL of the discussion, though, don't get me wrong.

edit on 25-1-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

When you say "We" are you referring to all people or only those "aware" to some degree or another of this type of phenomenon whether or not they (those effected) whether directly or indirectly (overt/covertly effected) if there is a control system would you not agree that those that are not privy to the methods used today to convey information that inevitably obtain control (I am not going to give examples your a smart guy) exist? I am certain that they do, and since this is a thought of mine I believe they are a smaller group to work with one would think to understand the adverse you should start conversly simply because the numbers are smaller and easier to work with then the big B numbers world wide. I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

Brotherman
NIDS and WHO indeed. I thought it was noteworthy to say the least.

On that, I first need to thank researcher and member CardDown for suggesting this thread. I had mentioned the control system in another member's OP and when I asked him how I might further address some of the issues that fascinate me, he suggested I might do a thread on that specific topic.

I also raised suspicions regarding Vallee and those he has associated with for years. CardDown then sent me an email that Bill Moore sent to Saucer Smear that throws some aspersions at Hynek and Vallee.

I'll dig that out and post it in a bit. Of course it's from Bill Moore and needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but it is an opposing view to "Vallee the Good Guy" and as such deserves to be entered into the conversation.

Shout Out to CardDown!!

reply to post by The GUT


Ok GUT,

on only one occasion in the past (on ATS) have i defended the views of Jaques Vallee... only to be bombarded with ignorant posts about how he is either insane or just plain wrong, so i realized it was kinda a dead end as people who fall into making a conclusion will never be able to deny ignorance or keep an open mind to an alternate path of outcome.

despite this, i still believe Dr Vallee is actually closer to home in his wild ideas than anyone else is......

Side note: After watching a few 'spirit science' videos on youtube, i have realized how they concur with the overall idea Vallee has been trying to get across (multiple dimensions, different forms of life that cannot be comprehended by carbon based life-form etc). It is basically becoming clear that there is much more to UFO's than just flying saucers or alien life forms.