Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

BlueMuleThat's why ufologists (well, everyone really) should become experts in comparative mythology, comparative religion, and comparative mysticism. That's the only way we will ever get over the misunderstanding of the word myth. Until we do, we won't make much progress.

Now that's funny. Those groups more profoundly misunderstand it than anybody. Then we'd just have a larger bunch of armchair opining, like you can already find right now in those genres all over the internet or academic world. Understanding the archetypal requires going through it literally, the only way one can.

A proper understanding of myth is about the cosmos and the soul, the archetypal and the whole: it is a first-person inner-space-opera of individuation, not an intellectual study about what other people thought about what other people think. Comparative anything studies are an intellectual study from offside. That has its value but it is not the way to understand myth. True myth can't even be seen from there. Only a surprised spark now and then, or a submerging-again corner of the anomalies of almost-evidence in what we call reality.

Greetings The Gut and all!

Once again you (The Gut) picked an interesting topic! (S+F)

Here are some of my thoughts about this: is it possible that Dr. Vallée is refering to alternate realities that result from the fact that some cross-over between dimensions do happen?

I mean, if the reality (the universe) in wich we live is just a byproduct or a "creation"/extremely advanced simulation that was generated and controled by entities from an outside reality (another dimension).

Perhaps those same entities created many other realities/simulations and are "testing" the effect of every single variation caused by their input resulting, after some time, on a large variation of realities/simulations. In fact, as time progresses the induced variations result on completely and radically different realities/simulations from the same primordial conditions.

The control system would be that matrix reality/dimension from wich all developments or events happening on the simulated/secondary dimensions would would be evaluated and compared.

I will keep an eye on this one!

reply to post by The GUT


Your reading comprehension skills are rusty....LOL...I was the shmuck who questioned the use of the Gray's Imagery being tied to the aquatic "other race" theory/meme/USO's thingy someone was using the media for.
Big difference.

Whichever "intelligence" is jerking our chains was floating another trial balloon....same as they are with the zombie meme and in the past the vampire meme & werewolf meme. Far as I can tell the mermaid/gray alien idea crashed and flamed out.

In looking for patterning within this alleged control system, the intelligence gathering aspect of it, we may do well to look at circumstances surrounding our past.

the library at alexandria
china's Mao & cultural cleansing
hitler, stalin and all the rest.

Every time humanity has enough information collected in one spot to begin tracking the control systems patterns we spontaneously suffer a setback. Curious no?
Due to the extremely long timeline and our past fragmentation we're approaching this cusp again with the NSA and the internet. Same thing, different era.

Caver78
In looking for patterning within this alleged control system, the intelligence gathering aspect of it, we may do well to look at circumstances surrounding our past.

the library at alexandria
china's Mao & cultural cleansing
hitler, stalin and all the rest.

Every time humanity has enough information collected in one spot to begin tracking the control systems patterns we spontaneously suffer a setback. Curious no?
Due to the extremely long timeline and our past fragmentation we're approaching this cusp again with the NSA and the internet. Same thing, different era.

Excellent observation. You willing to throw it out there and offer your "tentative" conclusion on who they are that are protecting said control system? And the why's behind it? What is so dramatic about our past, our truth that mustn't be known. Simply that we are slaves? Does it only take the realization of that to stop it?

RedCairo
Understanding the archetypal requires going through it literally, the only way one can.

Yes, I agree. But hasn't it occurred to you that comparativism can be a way through it?

"The origins of the discipline of religious studies in nineteenth-century Europe are not primary mystical or even religious. A highly developed secular sense is a sine qua non of the discipline and its social sustainability anywhere on the planet (hence its virtual absense outside the Western academy). I would like, though, to make a restricted and heterodox case that regarding the discipline as a modern mystical tradition could be useful in approaching the constructive tasks being explored in these reflections. In this, I am not suggesting that the discipline must or even should be read in this way.

Rather, I wish only to make the much more restricted, but no less unorthodox, case that some of the discipline's practices and practitioners (that is, those capable of forging a tensive mystical-critical practice out of the discipline's dual Romantic/Enlightenment heritage) can be read in such a way, and that, moreover, such a mystical-critical rereading of the discipline might be useful for the constructive tasks under discussion here, namely, the cross-cultural influence of religious systems toward a safer, more humane, and more religiously satisfying world." -Jeffrey Kripal

reply to post by The GUT

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "over-contextualizing?"

By that I mean he brings into the conversation other contexts aside from the main theme

Thereby making the interviewer ask the questions he wants to answer.
Smart fellow

reply to post by 1ofthe9

I agree totally. Of course Vallee is a sorcerer, the post modern kind…the eclectic scientist pseudo mystic

In the tradition of
Andrija Puharich
John Alexander
Michael Aquino
Kit Green
Hal Puthoff
Sidney Gottlieb
Dr. J. Allen Hynek

All sorcerers and use to be sorcerers apprentices

Of course I’m updating the term from the usual magickal context and into the context of the magic of secular science.

These guys have dabbled into the occult and mystical philosophies, to their credit, to advance understanding of these phenomena.

The problem is the dragon on their backs…the US government.

BlueMule

RedCairo
Understanding the archetypal requires going through it literally, the only way one can.

Yes, I agree. But hasn't it occurred to you that comparativism can be a way through it?

I was going to respond until I realized your response made my own point beautifully, albeit accidentally, heh.

Everyone finds their own path. Or doesn't. But the archetypal underpinning of our reality is not something you think about and observe. It is something you live and you interact with and you are.

As a person who spent too much of my life observing instead of living, this is a hard-won understanding of esoteric angst and growing age, but of course that doesn't mean it must apply to others. Only that -- speaking of observation -- I have long observed that it so far does.

Y'all are blowing my mind! So much good stuff here, I might have to let some of it assimilate--or simmer--longer, but I'm already getting what I wished for: A wider context of what might be meant by "control system."

I'm looking forward to trying on some of the observations presented here in relation to some events that seem to have the hallmark of "manipulating the control system."

Many posting here have read enough of Vallee to understand what he was basically suggesting, but enough was purposely left vague it seems--as DJWOO1 referenced--to keep it viable as an experimental model.

I'm working on some more material to add and reference here, but I also have some heavy thinking to do thanks to some of y'all.

In the meantime: Can anyone think of any specific candidates that might have been attempted by Vallee and whomever?

reply to post by The GUT


My own experience is that the intelligence behind the 'trickster aspect'
which Vallee studies has an unusual type of intelligence.. it has a 'hole'
in it's mind which is subject to influence by a certain type of human
mind.. these beings crave human contact like coc aine.. and thus
they can be manipulated ..

however it is also true, that humans have evolved with these beings
for a very long time.. and in fact the human mind as it exists now
is a result of a parasitic co-evolution.. rather like how we depend
upon gut bacteria to function.. human society actually depends
upon these beings..

One of my most 'controversial' realizations, is that so-called
human 'chakras' are in fact parasitic infections.. and that
rather then empowering humans by 'opening'; that these so
called chakras are the limiters of human potential.. that
those few humans who awaken to any real degree, do so
in fact, by cleansing themselves of these parasite infections
that others call 'chakras'. That in fact humans are and have
always been --- primarily unwitting food for these trickster
life-forms.

Also, unfortunately, since my views are so 'controversial'
it has come to pass that there is not much point in my
posting. But I thought I'd say hello to my old buddy and
spice up the thread a little and then probably go back
to lurking. I would love to meet Vallee however.. and
since he's close to me I should try and meet him if he's
alive, kicking and willing.. I think he'd be fascinated
by our conversation.

KPB

reply to post by The GUT


Yes. But I'd want to setup the experiment with someone like Vallee.

KPB

reply to post by BlueMule


What happens if ALL the basic assumptions of the underlying
traditions are wrong? What happens to comparativism then?

KPB

reply to post by Rosinitiate

What is so dramatic about our past, our truth that mustn't be known. Simply that we are slaves? Does it only take the realization of that to stop it?

What if humans have always been the junior partners to another type of mind?
Wouldn't it be exciting if humans could evolve past being unwitting food and
take up the mantle of leadership? Stop being victims? That is certainly possible
and very exciting to consider. But to accomplish that, the average human would
have to learn how to throw off the inhibitor collars and become liminal personalities
en masse. Rather than being the bailiwick of sorcerers .. perhaps this is the only
freedom for the human race.. the only way to break the great cycle of self-destructive
behavior.

KPB

RedCairo
Pretty much every formal group, and anybody ever in intelligence, I think is suspect as being likely more harm than help to anything we might call truth. Which may, inconveniently, be something of a variable, if a more complex definition of individual reality has any merit. I suspect that would only it make more horribly confusing.

I suspect however that Vallee's reference to a control system is not just referring to the so-called aliens, who aren't remotely aliens if they've been around longer than even our present form of species has. How many eons must one live on a rock to be a homeboy. But also to governmental involvement, not only in direct attempts to manipulate related to this topic, but also in indirect attempts to use the elements of this topic as a good "cover memory" -- literally and figuratively -- for a lot of other, not alien at all, situations.

RedCairo says it best here ^ until we dig up more information.

Vallee said;
Vallée cannot say who or what is behind this scheme, only that the evidence, if carefully analysed, suggests an underlying plan for the deception of mankind by means of psychotronic technology.

and DJWOO1 here;

DJW001
reply to post by Willtell

 

WHY NOT BE SPECIFIC unless you are hiding something?

In order not to disturb the system in such away as to create a pre-determined outcome. Vallee's observation that the UFO phenomena has characteristics of a feedback loop is very profound. It is in this cybernetic sense that he is using the word "control." This is a very profound observation, as it challenges concepts such as "intelligence" and the relationship between the objective and subjective in human consciousness. I share his reticence to be more specific, other than to point out that the vast distances between stars means that the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis can only be true if the Inter-dimensional Hypothesis is true.

It's very possible the entire ET/UFO experience is just a current day meme/illusion by the intelligence occupying this rock who remains outside our direct perceptions. More mythdirection at the humans expense. The govt just may not be any wiser than us in determining the source, but only playing along as RedCairo suggests since it conveniently "works for them" in testing out all the newfangled gadgets.

This in no way means people haven't seen or experienced what they have, just that it may not have been as cut and dried as they thought.

edited to add, KPB that is a very valid line of inquiry!! Parasitic about sums it up.

reply to post by Caver78


The so-called 'human chakra system' is the control collar.

Have you ever heard of the strategy of 'advertising your weakness' ?

For example, politicians generally make loud noises about being honest..
which means of course that they are liars..

The concept of chakras or even the different 'soul types' of the Egyptians
are all in fact components of the control collars that humans have been
embracing for all these millennia.

In fact the human nervous system has evolved to actually 'summon' these
parasitic control collar components.. and to use them to function..
even if the human in question doesn't 'believe' in 'chakras' or 'souls' or
what not.

You know how at certain times we feel 'warmth in our hearts' ? That is
also a near universal control system response.. though one of the less
harmful ones...

KPB

DJW001
I share his reticence to be more specific, other than to point out that the vast distances between stars means that the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis can only be true if the Inter-dimensional Hypothesis is true.

I wish you would be more specific, you certainly have my attention.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by BlueMule

 

What happens if ALL the basic assumptions of the underlying
traditions are wrong? What happens to comparativism then?

KPB

Great question bro, thanks. Comparativism would be just fine as an academic pursuit. It can and will put the UFO phenomenon ("ET") into perspective as a modern mythos that takes its place in world religion and myth. As a modern mystical tradition, that boils down to each individual mystic and what he or she gets out of their studies.

reply to post by BlueMule


So studying a system of lies and disinformation has
value in and of itself? I guess that's true. For a
start..

KPB

gortex
I believe it probably has and to an extent still is being tested by certain shadowy figures and organisations , the word `control` is irresistible to some and if there's a system for control then that must be found and used for their own ends or that of their masters.

It seems to me that the Human brain is set up for belief in the paranormal as has been shown throughout the ages from the earliest cave paintings right through to the UFO and Paranormal era we inhabit now , belief in the ancestors , Gods , Witches and Evil has been used as a control system by those in charge throughout history I see no reason why belief in UFOs wouldn't still be part of that control system.

One of the interesting observations made by you and others is the connection of religion/mythology to the issue being discussed. Quite a few here have also mentioned the ever-present intelligence boys surrounding and invading ufology as a whole. (More on them later.)

One of the things that has been gnawing at me since I read through all of the posts here regards a little discussed aspect of MJ-12 and SERPO. Both have an interesting message seemingly encoded within them. That being that they offer a counter-explanation to the world's Abrahamic religions.

Could THAT have been an attempt to manipulate the control system? That is, to change the structure and ameliorate the differences caused by religious conflict? Plugging a meme into the feedback loop to influence the output?