Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

reply to post by RedCairo


Yes.. I concur with your points.

We frankly have no hope of beating Vegas using the house rules,
unless there is a rule which the house has in place that will allow
'us' to win.

There may be an 'exit condition' to the loop.. where the party
or process that is actually 'in control' will terminate the loop
if the required condition is reached.

I would like to think that we can simply educate or love our
way out of this conundrum.... as a way to stop the craziness..
but then the problem becomes 'who to love' -- 'who to educate'.

Perhaps like in RV and the practice of Intent to cause effects
we should be asking for the answer from the phenomenon,
rather than trying to manhandle and outsmart 'it' -- which
may very well be some form of 'us'.

I think that we keep trying to 'outsmart ourselves' and that
we keep succeeding.. we are the ones perpetuating the
loop.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by lakespirit

 

That's interesting.. a lot of people take the 'nine' as a real world
possibility. This seems to show that the basis was in fiction.

Nice find.

KPB

The "Nine Unknown Men/Great White Brotherhood" meme seems to have developed from western introduction to Tibetan buddhism in the late 19th century. Specifically the myth of Shambhala.

This is a pretty good book on the matter.

reply to post by Autograf


Huh.

I didn't expect to hear those words come out of your mouth!

Is the Trickster more positive than negative?

Is the Trickster more negative than positive?

Is the Trickster neutral?

Do we have enough data to make such a decision?

I vote neutral..

KPB

JayinAR
reply to post by 1ofthe9

 

I have proposed an experiment at least once in this very thread.

Tell me what to do, and I'll see if I can't make this control system tapdance.

RedCairo
I mean first of all literally, how would it be done.

But secondly, let's just be real vague and say we actually did it and we were actually successful. Then:

1. What is a measure of success? What would happen that would tell us it worked?

2. How would we know whether the reactionary element was from the 'local' control system vs. the whatever-else?

3. Do we know for sure that changing some parameter in how the (Overlords?) interact with us is going to be a positive thing for us instead of the opposite? There is such a thing is out of the frying pan into the fire (not that this would stop me, since I loathe helplessness which is where we are now); and there is such a thing as reaction which just causes more suppression or secrecy or both.

It can be done by monkey see monkey do. In answer to your questions:

1. The phenomenon changes recognizably
2. Context and history should provide clues to deciding that
3. In the past the phenomenon has been approached by essentially putting its plans and examples into effect: the gods brought agriculture, medicine, and war. The ages have moved on though, and the story has changed.

If we acknowledge that the contemporary mythos is centered around aliens and space travel, it would seem that our current task to accomplish in order to 'move onto the next stage' is clear. I suggest that one method of manipulating the control system may be the continued push for exploration and colonization of space. We now have a naively optimistic Kickstarter-style Mars mission planning a one-way colony seeding, the first of many to come. This would be a real game changer in the known history of the planet, to permanently colonize another planet.

reply to post by 1ofthe9


can you say that is a more authoritative answer
than the other one? The other answer also seemed
credible.

You know how slippery 'truth' is. Perhaps there's
yet another credible argument!

KPB

Autograf

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by RedCairo

 

If the two agent model is valid, if humans become interested in 'x'
then 'x' appears.. and perhaps not only appears.. but seems to
appear in a slightly more future exciting or advanced form than
can actually exist at the present time (the old oh the military has
tech 50 years in advance idea).

Humans become excited by this display and then interact more
strongly with tricksters using that form. A loop ensues.
A feedback arms race so to speak..

This matches my thinking on the main drive of the system. There has always been this "carrot on a stick" aspect where the visitors either demonstrate or detail aspects of superior technology or higher morals.

My hunch is that one of the parameters being maintained (perhaps the main parameter), is a certain pace of scientific progress. There is also a strong case to be made for spiritual progress being a primary or secondary goal (wow, I sound like a New Ager just putting those words together). Perhaps the two goals reinforce one another.

I've also been looking at it from an uplifting perspective. In which case, it seems to be using the Verne effect to signal what we should be working on next...

reply to post by Autograf


I suspect that if we 'call their hand' by doing that,
we'll force the universe to be empty of life.

LOL

But colonizing space has it's own benefits.

But besides that.. the obvious pattern is that
once we achieve the 'level of the Trickster'
they will switch to something completely
different.

Something having nothing to do with UFOs
anymore..

Once something becomes 'pedestrian'
and commonplace the Trickster won't
touch it.

For example the Trickster used to manifest
as blimps in the 1880's or so.. but once
we got blimps.. they quickly stopped
appearing as them.

KPB

Autograf
There has always been this "carrot on a stick" aspect where the visitors either demonstrate or detail aspects of superior technology or higher morals.

Now see, this confuses me.

Maybe for those whose evaluation is based on reading this seems reasonable. I have only my own experiences to go from (and most were long ago) so I have a limited scope, but I try to stick to that scope, since it's the only thing I know to be real-for-me. And in my scope, blurring it all together like that only makes any answer a blur, too. "The visitors" like they're one thing or are doing one thing.

I've run into a whole lot of not-human-like-us identities. I suspect this is a frequency bandwidth so how much they overlap varies. Some a little some a lot, some enough to get called aliens, some not enough so they get called entities. Some small and some larger in power as well as perceived size. In short, there was a lot of different stuff. And their behavior with me was radically different for different groups.

While I'm not remotely as familiar with the UFOlogy literature as I should be, I'm pretty sure from what little I have read in books and online that this is the case with at least some others, too.

One group is singing tones at my molecules like I'm windchimes (light beings), while another is chasing me down a hallway and tackling me and kicking my butt because I got lucid (big blondes), while yet another is having long conversations with me while sitting on a bench in something like an everything-white environment (oversized TP insects). Somehow... I just don't think these guys are on the same page...

So maybe someone has a carrot on a stick for evolution. The others were just beating me with the stick LOL! Can we assume on anything when it seems like there is such variance in the reported experiences of people?

reply to post by 1ofthe9


So how do you process when the trickster manifests as an invisible
beast that rends the organs from penned up cattle?

No matter you twist it, you can't white-wash the trickster.

Or can you?

But so long as one fearful and insane human exists.. I think there will
be at least some negative trickster activity.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
There may be an 'exit condition' to the loop.. where the party
or process that is actually 'in control' will terminate the loop
if the required condition is reached.

Hmmn. This reminded me that in my personal esoteria I've had a couple of those. Both related to "awareness." To getting completely lucid on what was going on and so having the ability to interfere with it or stop it entirely.

Perhaps like in RV and the practice of Intent to cause effects
we should be asking for the answer from the phenomenon,

Interesting idea.

Ingo Swann wrote a lot about what is basically an organized intent to suppress, repress, reject, undermine, invalidate, marginalize, distort and destroy conscious psychic functioning. I wonder if this is actually the "awareness" potential -- the END IF clause you might say because we might be more aware.

The mystery is so elusive. Most people in society try to solve it using the Sherlock Holmes investigating principal. But as we know logic appears to play no part in this phenomena, maybe our logic is wrong somewhere. Is there some other system we can use to to decipher it, maybe an internal knowledge system?

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by Autograf

 

Is the Trickster more negative than positive?

Is the Trickster neutral?

Do we have enough data to make such a decision?

I vote neutral..

I don't think the JV control system can be simplified to consider a single Trickster and its motives in aggregate very easily. And I'm not sure we'd fully understand the context for its motivation, even so.

It appears that we're dealing with a Fortean spectrum of phenomena, often in concert, sometimes solo. Most of the overt social manipulations (BVM, etc) do seem to have a fundamentally positive message. For this reason, engaging it seems potentially quite beneficial.

Autograf
I suggest that one method of manipulating the control system may be the continued push for exploration and colonization of space. We now have a naively optimistic Kickstarter-style Mars mission planning a one-way colony seeding, the first of many to come. This would be a real game changer in the known history of the planet, to permanently colonize another planet.

Given the situation with both the moon and Mars, my impression is that they (they! I feel like such a freak...) don't actually WANT us doing this. Or is that why it is throwing a wrench in the control system?

reply to post by RedCairo


HM. Good input.

On that note.. in some mythology when a magician tries to
suppress his powers and deny his destiny, it seems chaos joins
forces with nature and all that 'magic' forces it's way out
anyway.

Maybe the tricksters are all trying to remind us of our abandoned
potential! And by attempting to 'figure them out' and 'control
them' we are avoiding the lesson entirely.. looking 'outside'
rather than 'inside'.

I'm not saying that is an answer.. but it does seem to coincide
with mythology and archetype.

KPB

reply to post by RedCairo


That's an interesting thought.

What if the Tricksters can't leave the Earth..

they would do anything to prevent us from
leaving them behind..

Maybe even invent the dark ages to cast reason
back 1000 years..

reply to post by Autograf


I'm not sure the data agrees with a positive bent.

but I certainly agree that we need to engage without fear
and with a positive approach.. so that even if the phenomenon
is somewhat 'negative' maybe we can turn it more positive by engaging
correctly.

reply to post by DrunkYogi


Yep..

if we switched to a direct knowing model, there would be
nothing to figure out.

Spoken like a true Yogi.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


I thought cattle mutilation was fairly well explained as top secret radiation testing, performed downwind of test sites by the US military to avoid alarming the population/destroying the cattle markets. In contrast to the panic that public testing would have caused, single dead cows are completely deniable and written off on insurance by the farmer as 'predator attack'. Even JV addresses this tersely, in his tactful way ("not UFO related").

Also, some of the mystery airship pilots have been identified. There weren't all *that* many people working on such things back then, and many experimental craft were about. Secrecy abounded then as now.

reply to post by RedCairo


What situation are you referring to? I'm aware of mysterious equipment failure on Mars satellites, but the rover sure seems to be doing splendidly.

I'm familiar with Hoagland, and much of the body of anomaly photos for both the Moon and Mars, and frankly with almost no exceptions, they're all just rocks. There were a couple of interesting photos from the Moon, though...